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$50/hour engineer vs. $5/hour engineer 24
- Thread starter QCE
- Start date
GregLocock
Automotive
Oh, that'd be why I'm designing cars for /manufacture/ in India, Germany and the USA then.
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Greg Locock
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FalsePrecision
Structural
yep, USA jobs should be for US citizens first. This concept of thinking that certain foreigners have a skill set that we don't have, and no American worker will be dispalced, is a farce. I have personally observed a case where I was the one who wrote the test to be given to make the determination. The engineer "Sam" (whom shall not be identified by nationality), never took the test. It was sent to someone more knowledgable, and that unknown person wrote the test. When I discovered "Sam's" resume, he claimed to have C++ programming expertise (not true- he told me it was his brother who was a programmer): he claimed to have written certain Excel workbooks (not true- I was the author of those); and he had claimed to have engineered several building projects in the USA. (Not true- his only experience was doing some microwave tower FEA inputting in his native country). His only experience in the US was in management and marketing. He was as phony as a 3-dollar bill.
Cheers.
Cheers.
FalsePrecision:
I am shocked at your thinking. The USA is open to all, and no jobs should be reserved for anyone. If american citizens want to keep their jobs, then the answer is simple, THINK. I am an american worker, and anyone that comes here legally should, could, and most likely will take my job, if I let them. They won't get my job, because I think, better than the next person, and that value is worth more at my higher salary than the person that doesn't think as hard at a lower salary. It follows that doctrine of survival of the fittest, it is no different in the work place.
I would agree that we need a level playing field here in the US to compete and that our workers suffer when there is an imbalance. When I see China posting 1000%+ increases in men's trouser production in 2 months, how can we compete? China's government subsidizes production at all levels and this is going to have drastic impacts on the US and other developing and industralized countries. I don't see Chinese workers coming here to take my job though, because I design their production facilities, because I can think.
Gone are the days where american blue collar workers stand on production lines making low value widgets and white collar workers check the performance of widget production. Personally I am glad, let China suffer witht he environmental disasters that come with low value widget production. Out thinking is imparitive since we will be the ones that will make work for the blue collar workers. I am confident we will keep thinking which in turn will make plenty of work for all.
Bob
I am shocked at your thinking. The USA is open to all, and no jobs should be reserved for anyone. If american citizens want to keep their jobs, then the answer is simple, THINK. I am an american worker, and anyone that comes here legally should, could, and most likely will take my job, if I let them. They won't get my job, because I think, better than the next person, and that value is worth more at my higher salary than the person that doesn't think as hard at a lower salary. It follows that doctrine of survival of the fittest, it is no different in the work place.
I would agree that we need a level playing field here in the US to compete and that our workers suffer when there is an imbalance. When I see China posting 1000%+ increases in men's trouser production in 2 months, how can we compete? China's government subsidizes production at all levels and this is going to have drastic impacts on the US and other developing and industralized countries. I don't see Chinese workers coming here to take my job though, because I design their production facilities, because I can think.
Gone are the days where american blue collar workers stand on production lines making low value widgets and white collar workers check the performance of widget production. Personally I am glad, let China suffer witht he environmental disasters that come with low value widget production. Out thinking is imparitive since we will be the ones that will make work for the blue collar workers. I am confident we will keep thinking which in turn will make plenty of work for all.
Bob
FalsePrecision
Structural
BobPE-
OK , be shocked. This is a forum, and I can give my opinion. The US Gov't H-1B visa requirements are flawed, and I maintain they will remain so because the large US corporations profit hugely at the expense of unemployed, talented American engineers. Those large corporations contribute to the Republican and Democrat parties. The smaller companies benefit by keeping the average salary down, such as what happened with the flood of Iranians willing to work for peanuts in the 1974-1977 years.
By the way, I have been an engineer since 1974, and have worked in 2 large corporations, and 8 small consulting firms.
From my experience, 75% of all foreign engineers that I have worked with are full of BS.
OK , be shocked. This is a forum, and I can give my opinion. The US Gov't H-1B visa requirements are flawed, and I maintain they will remain so because the large US corporations profit hugely at the expense of unemployed, talented American engineers. Those large corporations contribute to the Republican and Democrat parties. The smaller companies benefit by keeping the average salary down, such as what happened with the flood of Iranians willing to work for peanuts in the 1974-1977 years.
By the way, I have been an engineer since 1974, and have worked in 2 large corporations, and 8 small consulting firms.
From my experience, 75% of all foreign engineers that I have worked with are full of BS.
FalsePrecision:
Don't get me wrong, I value everyones opinion, that is the best part of the forums here.
I worked for several consulting firms over the years and have done engineering for major industries all over the world. In my opinion, I am thankful for H1-B engineers, they keep me gainfully employeed, because I think better than they do, or as you implied, than they can think.
US corporations do profit from H1-B engineers, and that makes my profit margins extremely high. You see, I get to go in and fix all the bad, unthoughtful, engineering and in doing so make myself look like a hero in the ROI department. It is a win win, I get paid well, the company gets great ROI. Without poorer quality engineers, what would I do. I am not afraid to compete, but when I can't, I take advantage of the situation.
I contribute to Republican and Democratic parties too, isn't America wonderful!!! And I agree, many foreign engineers do not have the same level of training that US engineers have when schooled outside the country. I just see so much opportunity there.
Bob
Don't get me wrong, I value everyones opinion, that is the best part of the forums here.
I worked for several consulting firms over the years and have done engineering for major industries all over the world. In my opinion, I am thankful for H1-B engineers, they keep me gainfully employeed, because I think better than they do, or as you implied, than they can think.
US corporations do profit from H1-B engineers, and that makes my profit margins extremely high. You see, I get to go in and fix all the bad, unthoughtful, engineering and in doing so make myself look like a hero in the ROI department. It is a win win, I get paid well, the company gets great ROI. Without poorer quality engineers, what would I do. I am not afraid to compete, but when I can't, I take advantage of the situation.
I contribute to Republican and Democratic parties too, isn't America wonderful!!! And I agree, many foreign engineers do not have the same level of training that US engineers have when schooled outside the country. I just see so much opportunity there.
Bob
Slugger926
Bioengineer
And not to mention the language barriers make it worse when they don't understand something, need to train you on their specialty, or don't want to comunicate because of an error. And the meantime, a more productive engineer has been sent home for good on the same pay scale. Something is wrong, and I don't understand why it is happening.
FalsePrecision
Structural
In a job I had for 3 years, the engineering and drafting work was sent offshore. I was in charge of quality-checking their work. To tell the truth, I was unsucessful at finding employment at the time, so had to settle on taking this particular job.
After about 1-1/2 years at this, I was getting very frustrated. They kept making the same mistakes (some of which were amazingly inept). I was wondering if their local managers were doing their jobs (the outfit in this foreign country seemed to have about 3 managers for every actual engineer).
Later on, I found out, thru some company grapevine, that the various managers all had some sort of "creative accounting" scheme going on to look good to top management, i.e., "productivity has improved 25% this month". They were given cash bonuses.
I can only imagine, perhaps the engineers were allowed only half the normal time to do their tasks. The engineers would quit after a few months anyway.
This was a job from Hell for me. I finally manged to find employment elsewhere.
After about 1-1/2 years at this, I was getting very frustrated. They kept making the same mistakes (some of which were amazingly inept). I was wondering if their local managers were doing their jobs (the outfit in this foreign country seemed to have about 3 managers for every actual engineer).
Later on, I found out, thru some company grapevine, that the various managers all had some sort of "creative accounting" scheme going on to look good to top management, i.e., "productivity has improved 25% this month". They were given cash bonuses.
I can only imagine, perhaps the engineers were allowed only half the normal time to do their tasks. The engineers would quit after a few months anyway.
This was a job from Hell for me. I finally manged to find employment elsewhere.
FalsePrecision
Structural
BobPE,
I only contribute my income tax to the Demos and Repubs (sarcasm). I would have donated to the campaign, but declined because my letters and E-mails to my elected representatives were never answered.
I only contribute my income tax to the Demos and Repubs (sarcasm). I would have donated to the campaign, but declined because my letters and E-mails to my elected representatives were never answered.
FalsePrecision
Structural
BigH-
I did. I no longer work for that company, as I said.
Hopefully there will be no legal repercussions down the road. Do you think I should report this operation to the State Licensing Board? Or to the State Business Licensing Office?
It is a multi-state, multi-national company, with its headquarters in the USA, an S-Corporation owned by a naturalized US citizen.
I am not interested in making trouble for them. Let sleeping dogs lie.
I did. I no longer work for that company, as I said.
Hopefully there will be no legal repercussions down the road. Do you think I should report this operation to the State Licensing Board? Or to the State Business Licensing Office?
It is a multi-state, multi-national company, with its headquarters in the USA, an S-Corporation owned by a naturalized US citizen.
I am not interested in making trouble for them. Let sleeping dogs lie.
moltenmetal
Chemical
There are gems and turds in the recent crop of immigrant engineers coming to Canada. Just like there are gems and turds in the collection of Canadian graduates.
But I guarantee you one thing: ANY graduate of either chemical or mechanical engineering from a Canadian university can answer this question correctly:
"I have a 6" pipe with a 1/4" wall, and a 2" pipe with a 1/4" wall. Both are made from the same material. Which one can withstand more internal pressure before it bursts?"
Roughly HALF of the chemical and mechanical engineers, recent immigrants all, that I interviewed recently, were unable to answer that question correctly! That horrified me. 100% of the pipefitters and millwrights and even 50% of the electricians I asked that question of were able to answer it correctly!
Fortunately, I managed to find one bright fellow originally from India who was not only able to answer the question correctly, but who wrote out the hoop stress equation from memory and explained each term to me!
So yes, there's a need for some due dilligence in hiring and licensing foreign-trained engineers! And a year of Canadian experience under the mentorship of a professional engineer, which is required here in Canada prior to licensure, is an absolute necessity for public protection!
As to my feelings about the rates of immigration of engineers into Canada, you can see them and the statistics which support them at . I am absolutely NOT against immigration- but immigration at rates which are considerable MULTIPLES of the demand are not in anyone's best interest, except perhaps in the short-term interest of a few greedy and short-sighted engineering employers!
But I guarantee you one thing: ANY graduate of either chemical or mechanical engineering from a Canadian university can answer this question correctly:
"I have a 6" pipe with a 1/4" wall, and a 2" pipe with a 1/4" wall. Both are made from the same material. Which one can withstand more internal pressure before it bursts?"
Roughly HALF of the chemical and mechanical engineers, recent immigrants all, that I interviewed recently, were unable to answer that question correctly! That horrified me. 100% of the pipefitters and millwrights and even 50% of the electricians I asked that question of were able to answer it correctly!
Fortunately, I managed to find one bright fellow originally from India who was not only able to answer the question correctly, but who wrote out the hoop stress equation from memory and explained each term to me!
So yes, there's a need for some due dilligence in hiring and licensing foreign-trained engineers! And a year of Canadian experience under the mentorship of a professional engineer, which is required here in Canada prior to licensure, is an absolute necessity for public protection!
As to my feelings about the rates of immigration of engineers into Canada, you can see them and the statistics which support them at . I am absolutely NOT against immigration- but immigration at rates which are considerable MULTIPLES of the demand are not in anyone's best interest, except perhaps in the short-term interest of a few greedy and short-sighted engineering employers!
Slugger926
Bioengineer
All this brings another question, how can companies have engineers do work accross state or international boundries when those engineers are not licensed where the company or work is needed?
Examples: A) A non-licensed engineer sitting in Texas doing projects that will be implemented in New York.
B) An engineer not licensed in Arkansas doing work for a company in Arkansas while living in South Africa. The project will be constructed in Arkansas.
C) A non licensed engineer that works on projects that will be constructed in multiple states (pipeline, electrical, or telecommunications) but the engineer is not licensed in any of the states.
Examples: A) A non-licensed engineer sitting in Texas doing projects that will be implemented in New York.
B) An engineer not licensed in Arkansas doing work for a company in Arkansas while living in South Africa. The project will be constructed in Arkansas.
C) A non licensed engineer that works on projects that will be constructed in multiple states (pipeline, electrical, or telecommunications) but the engineer is not licensed in any of the states.
FalsePrecision
Structural
OK, back to the original query-
Hire me at $50 an hour, and you get good engineering, and I can be reached on my cell phone. I won't nickle and dime you to death either.
Hire the guy in Bangalore for about 1/4 - 1/5 of that, and be prepared to go thru 3 plans checks, and you better have plenty of Valium in your medicine cabinet.
Hire me at $50 an hour, and you get good engineering, and I can be reached on my cell phone. I won't nickle and dime you to death either.
Hire the guy in Bangalore for about 1/4 - 1/5 of that, and be prepared to go thru 3 plans checks, and you better have plenty of Valium in your medicine cabinet.
I think I get to run away from any structural construction which is designed and constructed here in India by our engineers. Perhaps, there is a bright chance for valium producers.
Thanks for the eye opener, FalsePrecision. We didn't build structures for ages and we still live in huts. Also, your previous company selected the best engineering outit in India for the contract work and this needs no proof.
Other absolute truths(that don't require proofs)
1. All trivial questions asked in these forums are from Inida.
2. No. of Management Colleges = 3 x No. of Engineering Colleges
3. $50/Hr Engineer = 4x($50/4)/Hr Engineer (thanks for accepting it atleast algebraic way)
4. Probability of a random event can be 100%
5. There are no issues of public safety in some countries when the orignial engineers of the country are handling the things.
God bless us all, God bless democracy.
Thanks for the eye opener, FalsePrecision. We didn't build structures for ages and we still live in huts. Also, your previous company selected the best engineering outit in India for the contract work and this needs no proof.
Other absolute truths(that don't require proofs)
1. All trivial questions asked in these forums are from Inida.
2. No. of Management Colleges = 3 x No. of Engineering Colleges
3. $50/Hr Engineer = 4x($50/4)/Hr Engineer (thanks for accepting it atleast algebraic way)
4. Probability of a random event can be 100%
5. There are no issues of public safety in some countries when the orignial engineers of the country are handling the things.
God bless us all, God bless democracy.
flamby
Structural
- Feb 12, 2002
- 591
I am in India and get less than $5/hr. I do structural work and these structures do not keep on falling. One never had. But this will never entitle me for $50! I think there is not much difference in either engineering or engineers here and there.
Blame it on the magic figures of currency-conversion rates which are highly ludicrous and defy all sense of wisdom. Perhaps $ is the culprit.
Ciao.
Blame it on the magic figures of currency-conversion rates which are highly ludicrous and defy all sense of wisdom. Perhaps $ is the culprit.
Ciao.
-
1
- #56
I have been for long tempted to respond as I am from Bangalore.
5$/ hour is a huge amount perhaps paid by those who work for US companies and their contribution to Indian economy is negligible or insignificant.
Lots of guys working in the engineering industries and labs get paid far lesss but are doing a good work. Our trains run well, planes fly, telephones work, satellites are launched successfully etc.
But given the huge population and illiteracy the benefits do not reach the underprivileged.Also there is exploitation by the politicians and bureaucracy(perhaps universal).
With all these handicaps life is still interesting, meaningful and satisfying.
5$/ hour is a huge amount perhaps paid by those who work for US companies and their contribution to Indian economy is negligible or insignificant.
Lots of guys working in the engineering industries and labs get paid far lesss but are doing a good work. Our trains run well, planes fly, telephones work, satellites are launched successfully etc.
But given the huge population and illiteracy the benefits do not reach the underprivileged.Also there is exploitation by the politicians and bureaucracy(perhaps universal).
With all these handicaps life is still interesting, meaningful and satisfying.
moltenmetal
Chemical
OK quark, here's another set of truisms for you:
- anyone who claims they're an engineer is an engineer and has the inalienable right to work as one anywhere in the world they choose to, the moment they arrive- or even while they continue to reside in their home country
- all engineering programs and universities and colleges all over the world are utterly equivalent
- human life is valued equally in all places in the world, and hence the entire world views public and private safety in the same way
- all engineering issues in all disciplines are exactly the same all over the world, and hence an engineer from any part of the world is immediately qualified to work as an engineer anywhere else in the world
The list above is one which a great many people in my country want me to swallow. Sorry, but I just can't choke it down, and certainly not with my recent experience of interviewing so-called "experienced" so-called "engineers" who recently immigrated to my country. I did manage to find one among their number who is perfectly qualified for the job, but even he will not be suitable for licensure until he learns about the local regulatory environment, codes and standards, and understands the responsibilities conferred by a license to practice professional engineering. And I'm very glad that my profession goes through the bother of checking the credentials and experience of prospective engineers to ensure that a few of the cretins pretending to be engineers are at least denied a license- something which does not prevent them from finding a job, but at least ensures that they cannot offer their services directly to the public.
- anyone who claims they're an engineer is an engineer and has the inalienable right to work as one anywhere in the world they choose to, the moment they arrive- or even while they continue to reside in their home country
- all engineering programs and universities and colleges all over the world are utterly equivalent
- human life is valued equally in all places in the world, and hence the entire world views public and private safety in the same way
- all engineering issues in all disciplines are exactly the same all over the world, and hence an engineer from any part of the world is immediately qualified to work as an engineer anywhere else in the world
The list above is one which a great many people in my country want me to swallow. Sorry, but I just can't choke it down, and certainly not with my recent experience of interviewing so-called "experienced" so-called "engineers" who recently immigrated to my country. I did manage to find one among their number who is perfectly qualified for the job, but even he will not be suitable for licensure until he learns about the local regulatory environment, codes and standards, and understands the responsibilities conferred by a license to practice professional engineering. And I'm very glad that my profession goes through the bother of checking the credentials and experience of prospective engineers to ensure that a few of the cretins pretending to be engineers are at least denied a license- something which does not prevent them from finding a job, but at least ensures that they cannot offer their services directly to the public.
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