200 vs 300 series Stainless Steel appearence

[scoot9]

Hello all,, this is my first post. I work in the design department for Century Furniture (

http://www.centuryfurniture.com)

and we are introducing a collect that requires polished stainless steel. We're a high end residential furniture company and the polished stainless steel needs to be almost flawless. The joints need to be grounded and polished flush. Most of the material is rectangular tube stock.

We have been told to use grades 201, 301 or 304. Can someone tell me the pros and cons using one of these grades over another. My interest is with the joint appearance and how well the overall part will polish to look perfect.

Best Regards,
Scoot9

 

[CoryPad]

201 will be less expensive, the other two more expensive. They all should be suitable for your application. You need to follow established industry procedures for surface finishing (e.g. ASTM standards for passivation).

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[arunmrao]

200 series can be used for your application

Chocolates,men,coffee: are somethings liked better rich!!
(noticed in a coffee shop)

 

[scoot9]

thanks guys.


CoryPad, you mentioned surface finishing (e.g. ASTM standards for passivation). Can you give me some reference to this or a web site or a document? I am ignorant on the subject of stainless steel and what it takes to make it look perfect without pits.

Thanks
scoot9

 

[CoryPad]

ASTM A380 - 06 Standard Practice for Cleaning, Descaling, and Passivation of Stainless Steel Parts, Equipment, and Systems, available from ASTM International at:

http://www.astm.org/Standards/A380.htm

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[scoot9]

ok thanks

 

[mcguire]

First, all these alloys have the same appearance. One cannot distinguish between 201, 301 and 304 by appearance.

The type of surface finish is quite important. If a perfectly polished surface( by polished here I mean brushed, such as ASTM #4) is marred, say by welding, it is extremely difficult to refinish the damaged area so that it blends inperceptively to the surrounding original finish. Most people opt to refinish the entire surface. If this cannot be done, then you need to start with a polished finish which has a long polish grit line to facilitate blending to the original finish. This finish is called "hair line" and has no ASTM designation, but is used for architectural finishes. You may have to resort to a mirror finish, rather than a brushed finish, as it is difficult to find tubing suppliere who provide a range of finishes.

Michael McGuire

http://stainlesssteelforengineers.blogspot.com/

 

[strider6]

the 200 and 300 series are quite similar, both austenitic SS but have some differnce in terms of corrosion resistance.. so i think you should consider carefully where you'll use these materials..
these article can give you some good advise..

200 SERIES STAINLESS STEEL

"200-series grades have lower corrosion resistance and are suitable for a much narrower range of applications than grade 304. This has not been well understood and there are many instances where 200-series grades have failed due to corrosion, such as when they have been used for components like handrails in exterior applications."

http://www.assda.asn.au/images/stories/oldcontent/19673001161232771640.pdf

http://www.corrosionist.com/

also this software from IMOA can give you good advice..

Stainless Steel Selection Software
"IMOA has developed guidelines based on the assumption that corrosion staining is aesthetically unacceptable even if there is no structural deterioration.

The Stainless Steel Evaluation System is designed for use by architects, contractors, and others involved in stainless steel selection. It is based on practical experience and atmospheric exposure studies. "

http://www.imoa3.webinfoserver.com/Default.asp?Page=96

hope this help u

S


Corrosion Protection & Corrosion Control

 

[CoryPad]

Good advice from strider6. I assumed indoor furniture, but if it is outdoor furniture, then 201 would have significantly lower corrosion resistance.

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[mcguire]

If you did not know, nearly all national stainless steel associations are largely supported by the nickel producers. Small wonder they try to undermine the use of low nickel alloys like 201. I have a great deal of personal experience with restaurant equipment and appliance manufacturers whom I helped switch from 304 to 201. None ever had a corrosion problem. 201 in the US is very reliably corrosion resistant and virtually indistinguishable from 304 in that regard. There are reportedly some counterfeit allys which are not up to the ASTM standard, but this is also true of 304. If you but to ASTM standards, 201 will never hurt you.

Michael McGuire

http://stainlesssteelforengineers.blogspot.com/

 

[scoot9]

Guys,, this is exactly what I needed to hear.. Thanks greatly.

This will be used for indoor residential furniture. For example, the stainless steel will be used as a base on a dining table and maybe a base of an armoire or hutch. The finish will need to be a very glossy finish and not brushed.

If the 201 can give us the same glossy finish as the 301 or the 304 then my only question will be, can it provide great smooth flush joints where the horizontal parts are welded to the vertical parts? I read what mcguire said about a need to refinish. how is this done? I'm thinking that you polish the surface as it is originally and with no additives.

Attached is another piece of furniture that we make with stainless steel around the outside edge of the headboard.

As you can see on this bed we do have a vendor that can do what we want but they are so expensive the parts needed for this collect will price itself out of range so we're having to make the product else where.

thanks

 

[mcguire]

The least expensive way to try to get what you want here is to source the original material as bright anneal. Then process as required, followed by a buffing operation to bring the entire surface to a uniform gloss.

Michael McGuire

http://stainlesssteelforengineers.blogspot.com/

 

[scoot9]

I assume most anyone does that work with stainless steel can get stock that's been bright annealed?

thanks

 

[mcguire]

Yes, it's a distributor item, but I would try Allegheny first since they make 201, bright anneal and strip. After them, try AK.

Michael McGuire

http://stainlesssteelforengineers.blogspot.com/

 

[scoot9]

I totally apologies for all the ignorant questions but it is good that I understand this before I ask questions myself..

At first I understood stainless steel to be just stainless steel. Now I know there's grades or different types like 201, 301, etc... The names Allegheny, Bright Anneal, Strip & AK are new terms to me. Is this a Brand name? You say "distributor"?

Thanks for Stainless Steel 101

 

[mcguire]

Where are you located? I can help with US suppliers. Allegheny and AK are steel producers inn the US. Bright anneal is a generic name for a surface finish. Strip is a term for flat-rolled steel which is less than a couple inches wide and slit into long lengths.

Michael McGuire

http://stainlesssteelforengineers.blogspot.com/

 

[scoot9]

I'm in North Carolina. The vendor that we were using is from Michigan but they were very expensive. So unfortunately we will source the complete assembled base from China. grrr..

But we do welcome other vendors to quote. This is our issues. The order sizes will be small at 10s and 20s. I the furniture business there's not a lot of margin for profit so expensive parts like this can put you over the selling point.

thanks

 

[EdStainless]

While we often refer to the grades with the old AISI (American Iron and Steel Institute) three digit number this is just shorthand. All alloys have a UNS (Unified Numbering System) designation, such as S30403 for 304L.
When you specify a material you need to use an ASTM specification number (make sure that you have a current copy of the spec and that you read it) and the UNS number.
In addition you will need to specify surface finish.

Companies like Allegheny Ludlum, NAS, AK, and Outokumpu are steel mills that are producing stainless sheet and plate.

There are technical definitions, but in general sheet is light gage flat product that is rolled into coils. Strip is what you get when you take a coil and slit it into narrower pieces. Plate is thicker, and sometimes may be coiled.

The standard surface finishes for sheet are 2D (oxide annealed, blasted, pickled, finish skin pass with dull rolls), 2B (same but with bright rolls), and BA (bright annealed). Then there are many custom finishes that are different from one supplier to the next.

Companies such as Ryerson, EMJ, Service Steel, Marmon Keystone, and MetalOne are distributors. They buy from mills and then re-sell in smaller quantities.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

 

[scoot9]

Great.. that's good information.

I've got to say thanks to all of you...

the information that I've learned here and pass along to our purchasing agents to ask questions has really helped us communicate with the vendor. We are planning to use 201 grade if they can provide nice joints, otherwise will will go with 304.

again thanks