16d Common Nails - Nail Gun?

[Aesur]

Recently we have been getting RFI's and substitution requests regarding 16d common nails (0.162x3 1/2) not having nail gun options. Typically they are asking to use 16d Sinker nails (0.148x3 1/4) which is roughly equivalent to a 10d common for capacity. 16d common nails have been used for as long as I can remember, and I understand that every 10 or so years this becomes an issue and it seems to never be resolved. I understand the contractor's issue with finding a nail gun that supports 16d common, however the engineering standard of care appears to be and has been for as long as I can remember that 16d are the standard. I believe even the IRC requires 16d for most non-shearwall/diaphrgam connections, the IBC wood section has options for 16d and others for misc connections. This is also becoming an issue with Simpson hangers which I believe is why they started specifying actual nail diameter and length to prevent the wrong nails being used.

This being said, I'm curious what others are seeing, or if anyone else has any insight or links to nail guns that work with 16d common nails.

 

[phamENG]

I solved this by putting a nail schedule on my drawings and a note that says all nails are common nails unless otherwise noted. I also have a note that the contractor can substitute nails of same shank type (ring shank, smooth, etc.) as long as they are of equal or greater length and diameter. A switch from 16d common to 16d sinker or box usually requires an additional nail.

Another thing I've started doing very recently: I require the contractor to use a method that allows for identify nails after driving. Some manufacturers stamp the heads, others use color coding. None of these have gone into construction yet, so we'll see what happens. If they fail to do it and need me to to say they put the right nails in, though...too bad.

 

[XR250]

Save everybody some trouble and only design with gun nails in mind - because, that is what they are going to use. Except for 10dx1 1/2" joist hanger nails which seem to always be commons.

 

[Aesur]

Save everybody some trouble and only design with gun nails in mind - because, that is what they are going to use. Except for 10dx1 1/2" joist hanger nails which seem to always be commons.

This is what we are thinking is needed, but first wanted to get an idea of what others are seeing and if there are nail guns available or if there are reasons 16d common don't have a nail gun option. It definitely sucks to have to redesign/update details that have been used for 20+ years successfully without issue as I'm sure you can understand.

 

[kissymoose]

All the boxes of gun nails/sinker nails around me just have the length x diameter in big letters on the box, I don't even think they have a penny size on there.
So, just call out the length and diameter. It doesn't take much more text once you have to add in "common/sinker/box" anyway.
It would be nice to have a shorthand way of calling out nail sizes, but the industry took 16d and messed it all up by making it mean different things.

 

[XR250]

I just call out the "penny" designation and assume they will use the skinny version

 

[manstrom]

Despite what the code says, no one uses common nails. Check out NER 272 for substitutions for common to gun nails. Keep this in mind for your shear wall schedule.

16d nails are huge and tough to nail by hand. No one uses hammers except electricians and concrete formworkers.

 

[jayrod12]

The Canadian wood design manual has started including common gun nail sizing for all of their shear wall charts. Saves me having to go through and modify the capacity to accommodate what the contractor wants to do.

 

[Brad805]

Not many will have the air nailer below.

 

[Aesur]

So, just call out the length and diameter.

We actually do this for most hangers, the penny size is shown mostly in typical conditions and we include the NDS table on our documents that has the actual sizes for each nail type and size. We are planning to update our typs to use most likely 16d sinkers which they do have nail guns for, this is approximately 30% more nails required. We will become the correct outlier in our market showing the correct nail size/quantity and probably will then start getting RFI's of "why do you have more nails than the next guy using 16d common". - They will always find something to complain about.

Despite what the code says, no one uses common nails.

This is what I'm asking and what I am seeing; because I know that is what engineers in my market are designing for and specifying.

The largest Bostich nailer is below.

This is what I find interesting, there exists nail guns for smaller nails and larger nails, but not the most commonly designed nail.

 

[Brad805]

Aesur, I think it is a case of nobody wants to carry that all day long. It weighs 15.5lb and I expect it will be a bit of an air pig. I suspect it is not great fun to shoot nails with that large a tool all day long. The typical framing nailer is more like 8lb. I am sure Bostich would love selling the big gun since they are $800 a piece, and the consumables are more expensive.

 

[skeletron]

We do run into this problem but I don't normally spec 0.162" x 3.5" for anything other than plates or built-up members, if that.
The problem we run into is builders want to use 1 type of nail everywhere, and usually that is the 0.120" x 3" which is a sinker or framing nailer or something. No matter how explicit you are on the drawings (...we put diameter x length for all nails...) there will be someone that doesn't have the equipment, doesn't want to buy a new box, doesn't think it matters because they've been doing it for 30 years, etc. etc. etc.

In terms of problem-solving: take a bit of an inventory for what equipment the contractors in your area are using, either during site reviews or through instagram or something. Then adjust and design accordingly. 16d is a big big nail and will likely bust some wood.

 

[Aesur]

We do run into this problem but I don't normally spec 0.162" x 3.5" for anything other than plates or built-up members, if that.

This is what we use 16d for; other connections, shear walls, etc. we use what is needed based on the connection design or shear wall design, almost always smaller nails with nail gun options. The plates and built-up members are basically what they are wanting to see changed now. Not a huge issue to change, but will take some time to update details etc. in the library.