seasonal above ground water line for farm use 4

pperlich · Jun 10, 2025

Hi everyone. I'm PV engineer for carbon steel vessels by day and a farmer/rancher by night. I need to run a water line to provide water to my cows during the warm months. Currently I am using a 325 gal (US) tank in the back of a pick up truck to carry water, and I'm tired of doing it this way.

I'm planning on running the water line above ground along the perimeter fence. The total length from the current water source to the point of use is about 1600'. The good news is that I'm only looking at about 8' rise over that distance. Accounting for the hottest days and future growth of my herd, I'm wanting to design for delivering 600 gal per day. I will have the water pumped to a storage tank which will supply the water to the stock tank via gravity. This way during peak demand, the water will already be in the storage tank.

My well is on a 40/60 psi switch. I was thinking of using HDPE pipe. I was looking at flow calculations using this site: https://hdpeapp.com/#/application. I know this isn't the most comprehensive way of doing this, but...
Over 1600':
1" Pipe @ 5 GPM = 13 psi pressure drop (2 hour run time per day)
3/4" Pipe @ 5 GPM = 39 psi pressure drop (2 hour run time per day)
3/4" Pipe @ 2.5 GPM = 11 psi pressure drop (4 hour run time per day)

The 3/4" pipe and fittings will obviously be more affordable, but will it flow enough?
Is HDPE pipe a good choice for above ground water pipe? UV exposure?

I will also have to account for temperature/length changes, but should be able to accommodate that.

Am I overthinking this? Probably.

dvd · Jun 14, 2025

after searching on "bladder tank" and seeing what I refer to as a "pressure tank" I get a better concept. When I saw bladder tank I though it meant a bladder storage tank...

LittleInch · Jun 14, 2025

pperlich said:
The idea is to have a short stock tank that young calves can drink from. These shorter stock tanks only hold 50 gallons or so. Cows on pasture will all come to get water at once, and they'll drink a lot. So I'll need a storage tank in the back of the farm that can rapidly fill the stock tank while the cows are all getting their drink at one time. The flow rate off the long water line won't be able to keep up. Additionally, I am anticipating times when the pump doesn't work, such as after bad storms when we loose power. If I have a 24 hour supply of water ready to use, I'll feel much better.

OK. Making more sense now.

When they all come to drink your pump will be going flat out serving the big tank so doesn't leave you with much left for the rest of the farm. If you're talking water off at the farm expect lower pressure at the farm and less flow into your storage tank. But overall a 3/4" PE line scraped into the dirt will do you fine.

Nice grass.

pierreick · Jun 14, 2025

Hi,
You may want to consider a water tower, similar to what I'm using in my orchard .
From the well I transfer the water to the tank (water tower) , the well pump is started by LSL and stopped by LSH .
From the water tank I distribute the water to the garden and to the house through a network made of Black PE pipe. For the house I fill an outside storage tank .The outside storage tank is equipped with a float valve. From the tank I used a booster pump to supply the water to the house.

My experience.
Pierre

pperlich · Jun 14, 2025

Hey! That's pretty cool! Where are you located? By the trees it looks like a warm climate.

pierreick · Jun 14, 2025

pperlich said:
Hey! That's pretty cool! Where are you located? By the trees it looks like a warm climate.

Thailand.

GD2 · Tuesday at 2:47 AM

OP,
Before we go further to the design, couple of thoughts from me:
1. What type of systems you plan to build - closed vs open type? Open means water continuously flows to the trough, closed meaning a valve will be used at the user point.
2. There will be two tanks, one (called Header Tank) to which the pump will deliver. This tank will stabilize the water before running into the header pipe (reducing the loss), the second (called Storage tank) from which distribution pipes can be drawn to the end users.
3. You said, the max rise is 8'. Can you provide an approx elevation profile? It is important to find if the system will be air-locked at the high point or pressure break tanks are required to reduce cost of buying high pressure pipes.
4. What will be the peak demand? This will decide on the tanks sizing.
5. I guess HDPE pipes 1" or lower can be coiled to 1000' potentially reducing leaks and maintenance. Did you ever use PE pipes, could be an cheaper option? they almost always comes in rolls of this size.
Both pipes are susceptible to degradation from sunlight. HDPE pipes are stronger, lasts longer than PE but will fail over time.

GD2 · Tuesday at 3:07 AM

pperlich said:
View attachment 10798
Best I can do on my phone right now.

Are you talking about the gravity flow from the Storage Tank to the Stock Tank? That's what I see.

pierreick · Tuesday at 9:58 AM

An interesting paper about gravity flow system in rural areas.
Pierre

pperlich · Tuesday at 3:17 PM

GD2 said:
OP,
Before we go further to the design, couple of thoughts from me:
1. What type of systems you plan to build - closed vs open type? Open means water continuously flows to the trough, closed meaning a valve will be used at the user point.
2. There will be two tanks, one (called Header Tank) to which the pump will deliver. This tank will stabilize the water before running into the header pipe (reducing the loss), the second (called Storage tank) from which distribution pipes can be drawn to the end users.
3. You said, the max rise is 8'. Can you provide an approx elevation profile? It is important to find if the system will be air-locked at the high point or pressure break tanks are required to reduce cost of buying high pressure pipes.
4. What will be the peak demand? This will decide on the tanks sizing.
5. I guess HDPE pipes 1" or lower can be coiled to 1000' potentially reducing leaks and maintenance. Did you ever use PE pipes, could be an cheaper option? they almost always comes in rolls of this size.
Both pipes are susceptible to degradation from sunlight. HDPE pipes are stronger, lasts longer than PE but will fail over time.

Closed system. I'm intending on using a float valve. It's difficult to know peak demand exactly since I'm thinking of future herd size and thinking of the hottest days in July/August. I would say 200 gallons over 15 minutes would be about right though. Also, as I mentioned above, I would like to have at least a day's worth of water in the storage tank.
About 20 years ago on my dad's farm I trenched in a few thousand feet of black plastic pipe, but I couldn't tell you anymore about the material than that.

Also, yes, gravity flow from storage tank to stock tank.

pperlich · Tuesday at 3:26 PM

Topography of my farm. Well and storage tank locations marked, along with approximate pipe route. (Dimensions in feet.)

GD2 · Tuesday at 5:18 PM

OP,
I have some design queries here.
You want to use the well pump to supply water to your home and the feedstock.
The pump should supply water to a bladder tank for the home and an atmospheric tank (storage tank) for the feedstock.
The control of the pump is set by the bladder tank pressure - cuts in at 40 psi and cuts out at 60 psi.

Query 1: How to fill both tanks by the same pump? Options are:
Option1:
Storage tank fills first because there is no back pressure (atm tank).
Install a float in the storage tank, so that supply gets cut off once tank level is achieved.
Pump fills the bladder tank.
ideal time for this operation is at night when there is no user.
Option 2:
Use option recommended by Peirreick.

Query 2:
Storage tank location (at highest elevation) shown on the topography map tells that the @1750' away tank will be pressure fed by the well pump. So, it's not a gravity flow.

Query 3: How far will be the stock tank from the storage tank? This leg will be gravity-flow. Is this what you want to design for gravity flow?

If you want gravity-flow right from the source (well pump), you may think about the scheme recommended by peirreick for what he has done for his home and orchard.

pperlich · Tuesday at 5:34 PM

GD2 said:
OP,
I have some design queries here.
You want to use the well pump to supply water to your home and the feedstock.
The pump should supply water to a bladder tank for the home and an atmospheric tank (storage tank) for the feedstock.
The control of the pump is set by the bladder tank pressure - cuts in at 40 psi and cuts out at 60 psi.

Query 1: How to fill both tanks by the same pump? Options are:
Option1:
Storage tank fills first because there is no back pressure (atm tank).
Install a float in the storage tank, so that supply gets cut off once tank level is achieved.
Pump fills the bladder tank.
ideal time for this operation is at night when there is no user.
Option 2:
Use option recommended by Peirreick.

Query 2:
Storage tank location (at highest elevation) shown on the topography map tells that the @1750' away tank will be pressure fed by the well pump. So, it's not a gravity flow.

Query 3: How far will be the stock tank from the storage tank? This leg will be gravity-flow. Is this what you want to design for gravity flow?

If you want gravity-flow right from the source (well pump), you may think about the scheme recommended by peirreick for what he has done for his home and orchard.

Q1: Planning on option 1, however a concern is that pipe friction generates enough resistance that the bladder tank fill to cut-out pressure before the storage tank is full causing extra stops/starts of the pump.

Q2/Q3: Correct. Storage tank is to be fed by well pump. Not shown on the drawing is the stock tank, which is to be gravity fed within 150' of the storage tank in various locations. The cattle are restricted to small areas and rotated to allow the pasture to rest and recover so the stock tank gets moved around also.

LittleInch · Tuesday at 5:36 PM

That elevation is ok and very detailed map you have there.

The biggest issue I see is when your cows come and drink and then the trough gets fed from your elevated storage tank, the float will open and your pump will start and just go flat out, probably getting down to about 35 to 40 psi. The problem then is any other water draw off will just flatten the pressure even more as your poor little jet pump maxes out and then no one is happy. Given you plan to put a large tank ( how large? 600 Gals?) you probably need to install a regulating valve to reduce flow to about 2.5 GPM in order not to starve your other users or install a timer valve so that it runs overnight for 90 minutes or so.

You might want to see whether your well will actually do that extraction rate using your current 325 gal tank at 5 gpm for 60 minutes. if it does then fine, go for it.

PE is likely to be coiled at that diameter and black will be UV protected.

I think a tank at the end is better. At least then if there is a problem with the pipe you can always truck some water over to fill the big tank whilst you fix the pipe (animals seme to like knawing this sometimes...).

GD2 · Tuesday at 5:58 PM

LittleInch said:
That elevation is ok and very detailed map you have there.

The biggest issue I see is when your cows come and drink and then the trough gets fed from your elevated storage tank, the float will open and your pump will start and just go flat out, probably getting down to about 35 to 40 psi. The problem then is any other water draw off will just flatten the pressure even more as your poor little jet pump maxes out and then no one is happy. Given you plan to put a large tank ( how large? 600 Gals?) you probably need to install a regulating valve to reduce flow to about 2.5 GPM in order not to starve your other users or install a timer valve so that it runs overnight for 90 minutes or so.

You might want to see whether your well will actually do that extraction rate using your current 325 gal tank at 5 gpm for 60 minutes. if it does then fine, go for it.

PE is likely to be coiled at that diameter and black will be UV protected.

I think a tank at the end is better. At least then if there is a problem with the pipe you can always truck some water over to fill the big tank whilst you fix the pipe (animals seme to like knawing this sometimes...).

Littleinch,
I think this problem can be solved by sizing the tank adequately with enough volume so that the feedstocks are not left thirsty. The level float simply works to close the water supply from overflow but don't have the functionality to start the pump when the level falls.
The storage tank volume should be enough to supply all feedstock for one day (assume the tank gets filled at night). Peak consumption demand is required.

GD2 · Tuesday at 6:04 PM

pperlich said:
Q1: Planning on option 1, however a concern is that pipe friction generates enough resistance that the bladder tank fill to cut-out pressure before the storage tank is full causing extra stops/starts of the pump.

Q2/Q3: Correct. Storage tank is to be fed by well pump. Not shown on the drawing is the stock tank, which is to be gravity fed within 150' of the storage tank in various locations. The cattle are restricted to small areas and rotated to allow the pasture to rest and recover so the stock tank gets moved around also.

This is where things might go expensive. Friction loss can be reduced with larger dia pipes. Do you want to do a cost-benefit analysis between installing the storage tank at your yard running smaller pipes vs locating at 1750' away with larger pipes?

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