Do you guys defer steel connections? Should it be on the contact? 1

[reverbz]

Hey Guys,

So I was just wondering do you guys always defer steel beam connections? Even on more simple projects? Also, do you think this should have been specified on the proposal or is it standard practice?

Thank you!

 

[jerseyshore]

Very common in this area to delegate connections. Showing some generic details is what we see most often. On bigger projects I've seen (& done myself) the shear and moment values right on the plans, but that is not that common on small to midsize jobs. Often we'll just show the required moment capacities in some typical details. I feel like 50% of the time when we design moment connections the detailer does something different so it's just easier to defer that to them and worry about it later.

 

[dianium500]

LOL, I am on the east coast, and I had no idea this was even an option for me. I have always designed the connection.

 

[phamENG]

I had no idea this was even an option for me

Sounds like you need to read the code of standard practice! But don't worry, most engineers don't know they should read it, either. It lays out all the options for handling connections.

 

[dianium500]

Sounds like you need to read the code of standard practice! But don't worry, most engineers don't know they should read it, either. It lays out all the options for handling connections.

Just read the code, and they give you 3 options it seems. I think when you are doing a job where these connections are required, it's best the EOR designs it. If we start delegating everything out to others, then we are nothing more than project managers babysitting other engineers. In addition to that, the client ends up having to pay multiple people for these designs, and in my experience, they go into a project assuming you are doing everything. I had an argument with a couple because I specified wood trusses (the norm in my area), which are designed by the fabricators and stamped by their engineer, and they wanted me to do the conventional framing. I had to explain to them that my pricing was for trusses, and someone would get paid to design this, either the fabricator or me for the conventional framing. They backed off and paid me to do the conventional framing.

 

[Brad805]

"If we start delegating everything out to others, then we are nothing more than project managers babysitting other engineers. " Great profit margins and low risk. It seems to be the trend where you can get away with it. One project we worked on the EOR basically designed some beams, footings, and spec'd out some lateral loads. All the field review was subb'd too. When I spoke with him he was never on site.

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

If we start delegating everything out to others, then we are nothing more than project managers babysitting other engineers.

There are plenty of scenarios where it makes sense for the EOR to hand the steel connection design off to a fabricator.

First is manpower. On the jobs I (fabricator) get, it takes a LOT of effort to go from design plans to finalized shop drawings. Having an in-house engineering team dive into connection design for big (10,000+ ton) jobs diverts a lot of manpower away from new project development, so some companies hire the fabricator to comb through the nitty gritty details and manage the detailing teams. The EOR leaves a small team to manage/review the fabricator and releases the other engineers to work on the next thing. We've also gotten work from big companies that have their own conx engineering departments, but just can't dedicate the hours.

Second is specialization. Based on return comments I get from EOR's, some companies don't have structural departments that are knowledgeable enough to avoid the pitfalls of steel conx design. No disrespect intended, it's just not always in their repertoire. I usually see this in small/medium-small outfits. They could probably do the conx designs themselves but, from experience, that tends to lead to overdesigning & CJP'ing all over the place, resulting in bloated fab bids and dismal $/ton of delivered steel. There are also tricky things like the finer points of galvanizing. It's been a nightmare trying to get the overseas detailers to follow proper galvanized HSS venting/plugging practices on their shop drawings.

Don't have time to add more today, but there are also times when it's absolutely best for the EOR to do conx design. Probably when the workflow involves coordinating with high-seismic or proprietary stuff like buckling restrained braces with iterative analysis models. There's room for both in the industry. Have to grant that there's also plenty of potential for abuse/negligence when delegating. I'd never delegate to a company with anything less than a great reputation.

 

[phamENG]

If we start delegating everything out to others, then we are nothing more than project managers babysitting other engineers.

Once had an architect ask me, after I explained everything on the job my boss had directed me to delegate, "so why did I hire you again?"