SpaceX Starship missions 3

[thebard3]

Starting a dedicated thread here. After a pretty smooth flight test today, assuming no big anomalies occurred with the ground systems, it looks like SpaceX is back on track with testing and development. We should see more flights in the near future.
Both vehicles were lost before completing their full mission but a huge step forward today to see both executing the primary flight goals.

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[btrueblood]

Would you be more comfortable on the Starship re-entering from lunar transfer orbit? It hasn't even made a successful return from sub-orbital speeds, and talk about heat shield issues...

 

[thebard3]

Artemis/Orion's next planned mission is to be manned. Starship is obviously not ready.

 

[TugboatEng]

Do we know that heat shields are a problem on Starship? Have they had a controlled re-entry yet? The heat shields might be adequate if they can have a stabilized re-entry.

 

[WKTaylor]

Be advised that the SpaceX reliance on thermal tiles... for covering the complex curves of the nose/belly and wings of the Starship... is related to the Space Shuttle design... and may also carry with it a learning curve... and 'baggage'.

There was NEVER any possibility of Shuttle re-entry above/beyond the parameters of return-from high earth orbit.

I always wondered why SpaceX never launched each version/evolution of the Starship... 'as-a-single-stage' [or on a mini-first-stage]... in a series of max-performance suborbital flights over the Gulf of Mexico to a recovery ship. OH well I'm just an old-dum-bass... and stinky, too...

 

[racookpe1978]

Working through launch of Nbr's IX and X missile.
/Superbowl numerals

 

[thebard3]

Well, flight 10 started on a bad note, when the Starship blew up on the test pad. Not sure of any details about the facility, but I'd assume some damage to the infrastructure. Knowing SpaceX, I imagine they already have a contingency plan in action. Hopefully, the cause will be determined quickly and things won't be set back too far.

 

[WKTaylor]

Well, flight 10 started on a bad note, when the Starship blew up on the test pad. Not sure of any details about the facility, but I'd assume some damage to the infrastructure. Knowing SpaceX, I imagine they already have a contingency plan in action. Hopefully, the cause will be determined quickly and things won't be set back too far.

Starship destroyed in test stand explosion

A SpaceX Starship upper stage being prepared for the company’s next flight exploded June 19 during preparations for a static-fire test.

spacenews.com

 

[thebard3]

A nice article about composite overwrapped pressure vessels

Advances in Understanding COPV Structural Life - NASA

The Structures Technical Discipline Team (TDT) was involved in numerous investigations this past year, but composites, fracture mechanics, and pressure

www.nasa.gov

 

[btrueblood]

One thing about the "move fast and break things" methodology is that it can be overdone to the extent that it leaves no time to conduct failure investigations and reviews, and thus precludes the important learning step in the iterative problem solving process. You'd think that, having blown up a couple of test stands already, they'd have figured out how not to?

 

[WKTaylor]

A nice article about composite overwrapped pressure vessels

Advances in Understanding COPV Structural Life - NASA

The Structures Technical Discipline Team (TDT) was involved in numerous investigations this past year, but composites, fracture mechanics, and pressure

www.nasa.gov

Did everyone notice these composite-wrapped-tanks are in the nose of the vehicle?... Forward of the payload/crew compartments...

I'm pretty sure the Space Shuttle had titanium propellant tanks in this area.

 

[TugboatEng]

At least there is some wreckage to analyze this time. It seems like the 3 failures have all included some type of pressurization or the Starship hull. Maybe they'll find a cause this time.

 

[thebard3]

Saturn used titanium tanks. One failed in a S-IV during testing and destroyed the test stand, just before firing.

 

[WKTaylor]

Saturn used titanium tanks. One failed in a S-IV during testing and destroyed the test stand, just before firing.

OH YEAH lets not forget Titanium O2 tanks in Apollo 13 Service Module... of course they had already experienced unknown damage during proof testing.

If I remember correctly the Lockheed Venture Star couldn't shed enough tank mass and was not successful with composite LH2 tanks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VentureStar

 

[SWComposites]

Lockheed Venture Star couldn't shed enough tank mass and was not successful with composite LH2 tanks.

those LH2 tanks leaked.

 

[WKTaylor]

LH2 is brutal @ -425F on any composites.

Perhaps the use of LM [Liquid Methane] @-258F would be a more viable and safe solution...? After-all, LO2 is -295F and I think that was NOT a problem.