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AN1 (Structural) (OP)
1 Jun 06 22:40
I am sorry to post such basic questions, but could someone tell me what is drawn in paper space v. model space and if there is any reason not to drawn in full scale.

Finally, is there a drawing standard out there that spells this out?

Thank you
Helpful Member!(2)  IFRs (Petroleum)
1 Jun 06 22:57
1) always draw in full scale
2) always draw your "thing" in model space
3) use paper space for your border and create viewports to the model.  Put all dimensions and text in paper space.
4) Autocad help can help, there are lots of books out there
taffcad (Mechanical)
2 Jun 06 2:47
It will be worth the effort, once it sinks in. Keep the faith.
Iamjonscranium (Electrical)
9 Jun 06 15:40
draw in model and print from paper.  like ifr said, model is full scale, paper can be scale down through a viewport.  you can have multiple paperspaces for different paper sizes, plot settings, etc.  and everything else ifrs said.
vtgobbler (Civil/Environmental)
11 Jun 06 0:50
I have about 10 plus years experience with ACAD, but I am still not sure why people recommend dimensioning and writing text in paper space vs model space.  I'm my experience, it's always been best to do this in model space.  Can someone enlighten me?

Calif (Structural)
11 Jun 06 8:58
I think it is preference vtgobbler.  I remember a year ago,(been using AutoCad professional over 1 year) that a person who has been doing AutoCad for years did her final notes for a Architectual sheet in paper space while I did them in Model space.  Now, I typically do them in paper space but I think it is more of a preference.


The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not  because of an awkward accumulation of material.  There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form.  Eladio Dieste

zdas04 (Mechanical)
11 Jun 06 14:09
I was working with a P&ID last week.  The draftsman used model space for everything.  I asked him to zoom in to use more of the paper for the output.  He couldn't do it without scaling everything.  I moved his title block to paper space and then zoomed in on the drawing in a veiwport.  I think he saw how easy that technique was.  

The worst thing about putting dimensioning and text in model space is alternate views.  I did a series of printouts recently where I started with a township view of roads and pipelines, zoom in and you see a facility plat, zoom in further and you see a tank connection detail.  I know there are any number of ways to do this, but by putting the dimensioning and notes in paper space, everything was drawn exactly once in 3-d so that when I wanted to show how two tanks connected together I put them in an ISO view in one of the layouts and it worked perfectly.  Change management doesn't get easier than that.

Darken99 (Mechanical)
13 Jun 06 16:29
It has to do with preference and your ability to customize to program to your needs.

I have my title block in paper space.

I dimension everything in model space. I have a drop down menu with set viewport scales.  When the viewport scale is determined, I have a drop down menu to override the overall scale in dimension style to match the viewport scale selected. If you scale your viewport, you can select the proper dimension scale from the drop down menu and use dimension update.  That way you can have multiple viewports that have matching text size.  I also think it is easier to dimension in model space.  If you notice something isn't right with the drawing, you don't have to flip back between paper and model space.

IFRs (Petroleum)
14 Jun 06 6:45
Darken99 - your setup sounds like it works well.  My difference is that I don't use standard viewport scales.  I use the zoom level that suits each view.  I gave up long ago being able to use a ruler (scale) to measure stuff on paper because my printer and my client's printer never worked the same.  I put a graphic scale on the drawing but never scale viewports to 1/4"=12" etc.  Another strong reason to put only model objects in model space is that you can build assemblies using XRef and not get dimensions on the parts you XRef in to a master drawing.
DunnTech (Mechanical)
15 Jun 06 11:17

I recently picked up a contract job and the company uses layouts for printing. I haven't used layout for a long time.  I use AutoCad 2004.

Can someone provide with an example (step by step) as to how this layout works?  I have drawn the object (to scale) in model space (including dimensioning it).  The company has provided me with their co. template (saved in .dwt) they use in the layout.  When I select, the layout tab, the object does not appear.  I have to create another layout in order for the object to appear in the view port.  What am I doing wrong?

Controls/Automation Technologist
Helpful Member!  lpseifert (Civil/Environmental)
15 Jun 06 11:40
In a nutshell here's how I do it:

1. Make a layer for the viewport (e.g. "vport"), make it no plot and set it current.
2. While in the layout tab start the mview command, make the rectangle the approximate size you want; it can be adjusted later.
3. After you pick the 2 corners for the viewport rectangle the  model space will zoom to extents. Double click inside the viewport to make it active. The border of the viewport should bolden to show that it is active
4. Start the zoom command > center, pick the approximate center of the model. When it asks you to specify the height type in 1/50xp (for 50 scale, adjust to your needs). The model will zoom to the appropriate scale for plotting 1:1 from paperspace.
5. You can pan around to center the model as needed.
6. Once you get the model where you want it type in mview again > lock > pick the edge of the viewport to prevent changing the viewport scale. This can be done in the properties dialog box also.

Acad2005, Terramodel

Iamjonscranium (Electrical)
15 Jun 06 15:29
one of the main things to be done is model space is your xrefs.  created and inported in 1:1 ratio, then scaled in paper space.

it is easier to draw in 1:1 because you wont need to convert all of your measurements.  text is scaled, however, to the paper size, not the drawing size.  you can have multiple paperspace settings (print settings) for dif sized paper and have all the same size text so it is readable
vtgobbler (Civil/Environmental)
17 Jun 06 1:26
Calif:  Thanks for the feedback.

zdas4: I use paper space to place my title blocks and borders, so that's not a problem. I'm not sure I folow the rest of your  statement though. I never work in 3d so i can't really comment on that.

Darken99: I use the same method in my drawings. HOWEVER, I'd like to find out more about the tool you use to match dimension styles based on the viewport scale. Is that a lisp routine?

Iamjonscranium: are you stating that you also add dims and text in model space? Maybe it's too late at night for me to be reading this stuff...i just can't follow anyones thoughts.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback!
Iamjonscranium (Electrical)
20 Jun 06 9:41
no.  you can create multiple paper spaces for, say, 8.5x11, 11x17 etc.  you can copy the text and rescale it in every paper view so that it doesnt become impossible to read if you shrink from a 36" paper to 17".  i forget about dims.  they are easier in model, but the text will shrink, so you may just set them to whaterver scale (measurement scale, not size) you need and put them in paper space.

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