×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
• Talk With Other Members
• Be Notified Of Responses
• Keyword Search
Favorite Forums
• Automated Signatures
• Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

#### Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

# How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?2

## How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

(OP)
I have an inverted "T" shape and I need to calculate the J and Cw values. I donot have quick access to the Roark Book, as I understand it is in there. Does anyone know how to do this?

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

For a "T" shape where

b = width of the flange
tf = thickness of the flange
h = height from the tip of the stem to the mid-height of the flange (d - tf/2)
tw = thickness of the stem

J = 1/3 x ((b x tf^3) + (h x tw^3))

Cw = 1/36 x ((b^3 x tf^3)/4 + (h^3 x tw^3))

So a verification -
Let b = 4
tf = .5
h = 6.25
tw = .3

Then I get J = 0.2229

Cw = 0.2387

Cw = 0 for small thicknesses

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

(OP)

Is a "T" value valid for an inverted T?

Also, I thought the values depended on a "mesh", or matrix...?

Guess I really don't understand how these values are derived.

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

I would ignore the effect of Cw.  It (torsional warping) will contribute a trivial amount to the capacity.  All the torsion will be taken by the St. Venant's stresses.  If you have to enter a value for a computer program put in .0001 in^6.

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

(OP)
My beams vary but on average are 30" high, web is 3" and flange is 6" x 2". Thinking I should not iognore it for this. What about the inverting of the "T"?

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

I would still ignore this effect.  The mechanics of torsional warping is very complicated, but an easy way to simulate for an I-beam or channel it is to place equal and opposite horizontal forces of T/2h (where h is the distance between your top and bottom flange).  Then analyze the flanges for weak axis bending for these forces.
Now if you try the same thing with a T-section, there is no opposite flange to create the couple that can carry the torsion.  Even with your beefy section, the warping will be a small effect.

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

J and Cw are independent of orientation  (T vs. Inv. T)

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

(OP)
Thanks people, I really appreciate the input. It helped to clear the muddy water on this subject.

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

Check the slenderness ratio of the elements composing the T.  To use the 1/3 factor in the calc for J the width/thickness ratio for the element needs to be greater than 10 (theoretically infinity).  I don't have my book with me right now to verify the actual numbers.

### RE: How to calculate J and Cw for non-standard shapes?

Does anyone know what the generalized form for Cw is for any arbitrary shape?  Or could anyone perhaps refer to a good text which describes this?

I find all the given formulae for various shapes fine and dandy, however I would like somthing more along the lines of a derivation.

#### Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

#### Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Close Box

# Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

• Talk To Other Members
• Notification Of Responses To Questions
• Favorite Forums One Click Access
• Keyword Search Of All Posts, And More...

Register now while it's still free!