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Alright my least favorite mis-uses--
3

Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

(OP)
Affect and effect......

I can affect a (insert your favorite noun)
I can effect a (insert your favorite verb)

You can affect somthing and cause an effect.

You CAN NOT cause an affect, nor can you effect a thing (noun).

nick

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

Guilty as charged.

I never could remember the difference without the aid of a dictionary.

I always considered english as a superflous subject, completely without reason nor logic, and a complete waste of time compared to subjects like, geography, math, physics, chemistry, drafting, workshop, sport, sitting in the back of the class making paper aeroplanes, etc. etc.

I must say, I now regret that flaw in my reasoning at the time.

Your explanation will now probably stick in my mind, so as to affect / effect? my future work. Is work a noun or a verb, oh well!

Regards
pat

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

It's the curse of the drinking man

TTFN

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

"I can effect a (insert your favorite verb)"

Doesn't sound quite right to me.  Can anyone effect an example of this useage?

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

I can effect a change by making a cut and jump here?

TTFN

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

When the new system takes effect, the effect will be that the power regulator will no longer affect the equipment until I effect a modification to the transformer. It will not help if you affect the facial characteristics of a disgruntled baboon.

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

IRStuff: "...effect a change..."
JulianHardy: "...effect a modification..."

electricpete: "Where's the verb?" (spoken like the little old lady from Wendy's)

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

“Affect” is a verb (always, as far as I am aware, but someone can probably produce a counter-example), most commonly meaning “to act on” or “to produce an effect upon” some other person or object.

However, “affect” can also be a verb meaning “to make a show of”, or “to prefer or adopt by preference”, or “to assume the character or disposition of” as in: “He affected the facial characteristics of a disgruntled baboon” meaning “He took on the facial characteristics of a disgruntled baboon.”

In this case, one “affects” or adopts a certain characteristic or “affectation” (not an “affection”!) to oneself, rather than “affecting” some other person or thing.

”Effect” is USUALLY a noun meaning “that which is caused by some agency or cause” or “the result intended to be brought about”, BUT “effect” can also be a verb meaning” to bring about” or “to produce as an effect” or “to bring about” as in: “I effected a modification to the transformer”.

That is, in the most common use, to “affect” (verb) something results in an “effect” (noun) upon it. However, it is also perfectly legitimate to say that you can “effect” (verb) a change or modification, for example. And one can also “affect” a certain characteristic without “affecting” anything or anyone else.

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

The confusion stems from the fact that both, effect and affect, can be transitive verbs (tv) as well as nouns. Those of us, speakers of latin-derived languages, don't have the same problem because the words differ in more than one vowel.

In Spanish, for example, affect (tv) is used more as to influence, to produce a change, an alteration; effect (tv), to accomplish, to bring into being. Those are, in fact, the meanings we attach to those verbs when we try to "think" in English.

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

"where's the verb!" is the cry when trying for a simultaneous transalation of German into English and frustrated by a long sentence. In German, the verb is usually right at the end. My Grandfather related an example of a particular politician make an attempt on Churchills record for the longest paragraph consisting of a single sentence (ad hoc in parliament). Be nice to remember the story in more detail.

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

Excuse me if my post is crude but this discussion reminds me of one joke I read in Readers Digest. A teacher asks a student whether Love is a noun or a verb. The student replies "Noun in week days and Verb at week ends". Keeping fun aside, my point is that languages are becoming subective nowadays.

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

Good one quark.

Julian and IRStuff - let me re-phase my question. Where is the verb as in "I can effect a (insert your favorite verb)" ?

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

effect is the verb, from American Heritage Dictionary, http://www.bartleby.com/61/81/E0048100.html:

TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: ef·fect·ed, ef·fect·ing, ef·fects
1. To bring into existence. 2. To produce as a result. 3. To bring about. See Usage Note at affect1.  

TTFN

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

Re-read it again.
"I can effect a (insert your favorite verb)"
Where is the verb that I have shown in bold?

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

Sorry, I thought the discussion:

"You CAN NOT cause an affect, nor can you effect a thing (noun)."

was about whether effect was a verb or a noun.  

The point is that effect is defined in various dictionaries as both noun and verb.  Moreover, affect does indeed had a definition as a noun:

"In psychology, affect is the subjective experience of an emotion. When used as a verb affect concerns the influence of something on a person."

TTFN

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

IRStuff - I'm sorry. Now I understand.  Your 2nd and 3rd posts were responding to the original post and had nothing whatsoever to do with my question...even though both your 2nd and 3rd messages appeared immediately after a post of mine and even after I have specifically addressed you twice.

Of course... how could I have missed it. My mistake.

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

electricpete: In my defence, let me point out that I never said:

“I can effect a (insert your favourite verb)”

NickE must take the credit / blame for this!

What I DID say is that I can effect a “change / modification / repair / etc”. In all cases, “I can effect a (NOUN)” – but not just ANY noun. I think that the noun in question must be the noun-form (is that the correct terminology?) of a transitive verb, and ”effect” changes from being a noun (its usual form) to becoming the transitive verb.

For example:

I can change (verb) something, or I can effect  (verb) a change (noun).
I can modify (verb) something, or I can effect (verb) a modification (noun).
I can repair (verb) something, or I can effect (verb) a repair (noun).

IRstuff: Thanks for pointing out the noun form of “affect”. It wasn’t in my Macquarie Dictionary (I checked before posting!), but I had a sneaky suspicion that someone could prove me wrong, which is why I qualified my post with:

“Affect” is a verb (always, as far as I am aware, but someone can probably produce a counter-example).”

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

I'm getting really happy with:
http://onelook.com/

It's a metasearch engine for dictionaries and has done wonders so far.

TTFN

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

EP,

I was answering your posts, but only thinking of the original question, so my apologies for not reading more carefully.

TTFN

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

IRstuff,

Thanks for the tip on www.onelook.com - I checked it out, and I have added it to my "Favourites".

(And I've clicked on the "Thank You" button in this thread, so you should get at least one vote this week!)

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

(OP)
wow what controversy.... I am not all that great at english definitions, in fact I had no recollection of a transitive verb. The statement:

I can effect a (insert your favorite verb)

I was thinking wrong, if change is placed into that phrase then it is a noun, JulianHardy is right in the post a few up.

I mostly don't even remember how to diagram a sentence (shoot turned a noun into a verb again, my thesis advisor hated that), often times I just see that the sentence is wrong and know what word to place there to make it right.

What fun language is, almost as fun as thermo....

nick

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

So…
IRStuff was not talking to me.
Julian was not talking to me.
Nick thinks that Julian figured out “I can effect a (insert your favorite verb)” is not correct.
Okie-dokie.  

Gotta run now. I’m going to go have a conversation with my wall.  Nice paint job.  Tell your friend we’ll meet at the corner.

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

(OP)
Gorsh Mr. ElectricPete didn't mean ot offend, you did point out the error first and I'll even give out a star.....

(for anyone else my point was to bring up this common misuse that bugs me, I just had a real hard time explaining it. See the following lines from my first post:

"You can affect something and cause an effect.

You CAN NOT cause an affect"

I think I've got them right now. But likely I'm wrong again


nick

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

No problem. Didn't mean to be negative. Good thread.

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

Probably.  Even Encarta is confused.  One entry calls it only a verb, while another: http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861583970, lists:


"af·fect [ á fèkt ] (plural af·fects)

noun  

feeling associated with an action: an emotion or mood associated with an idea or action, or the external expression of such a feeling
blunted affect


[Late 19th century. Via German Affekt .]
"

TTFN

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

What this forum needs is the ability to reply to a particular posting in a structured “tree”, rather than just at the bottom of the thread. A lot of confusion has arisen here because electricpete thought IRstuff was talking to him, whereas IRstuff was actually responding to me, but I thought he was answering NickE and ….

I think I will suggest it to the forum managers – if I can find the link.

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

I understand affect to be a verb normally :
The action I take will affect the outcome.
There is also a recondite use of affect as a noun in psychology.
Effect can be a noun or a verb. Noun:
If I hit my thumb with a hammer, the effect will be pain.
Verb:
An analgesic will effect a relief of the pain in my thumb

JulianHardy
The usual method of clarification is to address a post to a particular user if you feel that it's necessary. The link to contact forum managers is at the very top of each page, marked Contact Us

Good Luck
johnwm

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

I agree with jmw.  No change is necessary.  IRStuff has mentioned he was in fact responding to me, just didn't read my question carefully.  Hey I have done the same thing as well in the past 2 or 3 or 10 times myself.  I have absolutely no problem with people making honest mistakes as long as they admit it, rather than trying to avoid embarassment by creating some false pretense that the other person must be confused about the context.

As jmw mentions you can put the name of the person you are talking to in your thread as I did in my 2nd message on this thread.  

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

(OP)
I personally (on the thread organization topic) would like post numbers. That way when responding it would allow:

Irstuff- in post #(3) I have to agree, drinking will leave you with a fuzzy head like I had on Wendsday.

nick

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

I positively squirm with annoyance when people say "a twenty one point eighteen percent increase..."
NO IT IS NOT
It is a twenty one point one eight percent increase.

PS ElPete, this is the real JMW. I think you mean JohnWM.

RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

Sorry jmw and JohnWM for mixing you guys up.  Maybe one of you should change your handle for us dyslexic (sp?) guys

Also sorry to have launched into a little bit of a rant.  I didn't like the sentence starting "A lot of confusion has arisen here because electricpete thought....".   I probabaly overreacted but I don't think there was ever any confusion on my part in this thread.

So, I plan to stop typing on this thread now and no more comments unless/until someone else says something about electricpete.  

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RE: Alright my least favorite mis-uses--

It's a good place for a rant... you're among friends, so keep posting.

Jon

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