Professional Seal Question

Question

Professional Seal Question

XR250 (Structural)

(OP)

20 Jun 24 13:45

So a customer sent me a set of plans for a pre-engineered steel garage/carport structure. It is constructed with 2" square light gage steel.
The plans are sealed by a PE in my state but the way it is sealed is unusual and I am guessing in violation of most board rules.
The plans are on 8 1/2x11 sheets. The first sheet lists the Customer name and the type of building, firms involved etc.
The next page contains the seal(s). Since the design is intended to be used in multiple states, the page contains multiple seals from multiple engineers.
It literally only contains seals and the firm name/address and the manufacturer's name. It is not even dated on the seals.
OK, but that is the only sheet on the plans that is sealed and it makes no reference to this particular building or the customer.
I mean, I could literally use this sheet on a random set of my drawings and have them liable LOL.
Has anyone else run across this?

phamENG (Structural) · Answer 1 · 2024-06-20 14:16:54

Not on a set of plans. I've seen it for products, but it usually has a header/footer that clearly ties it to the rest of the report.

Heaviside1925 (Mechanical) · Answer 2 · 2024-06-20 14:49:25

OP,
I have seen this same thing not on a carport but for small pole barns (there's a pole barn thread on this forum too, was going to post there but was afraid of getting dog piled lol). Same set up as you are describing, a bunch of 8 1/2 x 11 drawings and a cover sheet of a bunch of PE stamps all stuffed into an "official" looking manila envelope. They seem good enough to get past building inspectors, but I have always been suspect of the professional quality of the stamp and design. The small amount of digging online showed a few of these companies have a "stamped plans" option as a couple hundred-dollar adder when the customer is specifying their building.

XR250 (Structural) · Answer 3 · 2024-06-20 17:33:50

Yea, the engineering looks a bit sketchy to me as well.

Rabbit12 (Structural) · Answer 4 · 2024-06-20 23:27:18

Is the PE active? I had a set of stair railing drawings come across my desk a couple years ago with an engineer's stamp on them. I checked that engineer in the state's system and he was not active. Called the company he worked for (different than the manufacturer of the railings) and the guy was dead. The conversation was pretty awkward at first but once I explained why I was calling she forwarded me to the manager pretty quickly.

I'd be tempted to report it to the board. It's unethical stuff similar to this that undercuts the rest of us.

JAE (Structural) · Answer 5 · 2024-06-20 23:39:47

I'd report it to the board as well. A design submitted should follow each state's rules regarding signing and sealing (assuming this is a US project).

It's wrong to seal a blank page with no reference to a particular project or design.

Euler07 (Structural) · Answer 6 · 2024-06-21 00:36:09

I would email the engineers and ask them if they actually sealed/approved it. I like it when someone contacts me asking if I actually did a project or if someone just copied my details.

JAE (Structural) · Answer 7 · 2024-06-22 01:15:26

Odds are, there’s no way to get the emails of all these engineers who stamped this blank page.

XR250 (Structural) · Answer 8 · 2024-06-22 02:00:35

Quote (JAE)
'd report it to the board as well. A design submitted should follow each state's rules regarding signing and sealing (assuming this is a US project).

It's wrong to seal a blank page with no reference to a particular project or design.

I have thought about it. However, I am not squeaky clean myself. I never lock the seal on on my drawings like the board requires. Mainly because it is time consuming if it is actually done according to the board rules. (Using Acrobat's built in security is technically not permitted even though that is what most do in my area.)
I feel like no one is likely going to get injured over the way this carport thing was presented.

SLTA (Structural) · Answer 9 · 2024-06-28 14:01:24

XR250 - that last post of yours could get used against you if you get sued over this. Maybe think about whether you really want it on the public internet that a) you know you're not following board rules and b) you don't have an issue with drawings being presented in a way not in alignment with board rules.

Please remember: we're not all guys!

LOTE (Structural) · Answer 10 · 2024-06-29 15:11:06

SLTA - In my experience, it's nearly impossible to follow the board rules to a T when owners won't accept properly digitally signed drawing and yet only accept electronic submissions. The worst are the DOTs in this regard.

XR250 (Structural) · Answer 11 · 2024-06-29 16:07:44

SLTA

Not sure who would be trying to sue me over this.

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