Seemed relevant in case anyone is learning English

- Andrew

But, Singapore and Jamaica higher than the US? Bah, humbug!

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

"But, Singapore and Jamaica higher than the US? Bah, humbug!"

Really, Scrooge?
Open borders for the past 4, and classrooms pushing other than reading, writing an' 'rithmetic.

Surprising but possible, IMNSHO.

Skip,

_{Just traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!}

Maybe the education system or the quality of education is better?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Land where everyone wants to come. But they come from all countries, and speak all languages. I couldn't get down to where England sits on that list.

Second, after Republic of Ireland - but then it's a measure of what proportion of the population speaks English at an acceptable level, rather than an attempt to quantify the actual fluency of those speakers. As Hokie says, towards the top of the list it's about cultural homogeneity rather than quality of education.

A.

Zeus... I think it's both...

It was interesting to see Iceland on the list. Over 50 years back, I helped my girlfriend do an essay on 'Icelanders in Manitoba' and part of the research showed that historically Icelanders have historically held an extremely high literacy rate.

The UK government has nearly destroyed their country, and it will be interesting to see them 'fall off' the list.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Did Dame Edna advise a reader against learning Spanish?

--
JHG

...and from Tom Lehrer, "In English and German I know how to count down, and I'm learning Chinese, says Werner Von Braun."

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (dik)

The UK government has nearly destroyed their country, and it will be interesting to see them 'fall off' the list.

HM Government wasn't on the list.

but the English language may be at risk which puts them squarely in the sights.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

In 1954, HMG commissioned what turned out to be a very successful style guide (now available here). Several of the examples in Chapter Nine's section on "Troubles with Pronouns" could be replaced with quotes from this thread.

I'm trying to find a literary term that is used to describe the weather being sympathetic to the events. Any suggestions?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Closest I can think of straight off is "fittingly" (dull/driech/blustery...)

Not the term, but thanks...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Props to dik for quoting Tom Lehrer.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

Let´s climb the Babel Tower! But ... Don´t forget the google tradutor.

Another example of trouble with pronouns from elsewhere in these forums (lightly edited for clarity):

Quote ( )

Our son works for a company which pays very high salaries to its best people because the owner believes in keeping employees who contribute the most. He admits that it sometimes locks you into a bad situation, like the crap that he had to take for years from his immediate boss. However, he retired at the end of last year and his new direct boss is much easier to work with, so he's glad that he stuck it out.

(Who he? Ed.)

Interestingly, it's easier to describe this situation in British Sign Language than it is in English: When each character - the son, the owner, the old boss and the new boss - is first introduced, the BSL user will park them in a different corner of their sign space. "He" then becomes a matter of pointing to the relevant corner, leaving no room for doubt over which "he" is meant in each case.

This is an instance where using the "they" pronoun would make things clearer

Quote:

However, they retired at the end of last year and his new direct boss is much easier to work with, so he's glad that he stuck it out.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

IRstuff: I think they is still problematic, does they mean the owner and his immediate boss? Better off simply stating "However, his immediate boss retired at the end of last year ......"

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

Quote:

the crap that he had to take for years from his immediate boss. However, his immediate boss retired at the end of last year,

While unambiguous, it doesn't exactly trip off the tongue. Moreover, "they" can only realistically be attached to "his immediate boss" since the following " and his new direct boss is much easier to work with," makes it obvious the son didn't retire.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

A few years ago I had a bit of an epiphany during a conversation with a younger Indian colleague/friend who speaks near-perfect English. I asked, at what age did Indian schools start teaching him English. He explained that he grew up in a very poor rural area and had been exposed to English music/movies but never had a formal English course until doing his undergrad stateside. When I complimented him amazed that he'd learned English while studying engineering in English he blew my mind by stating the obvious (which I'd missed) - when you're a dirt-poor Indian kid given a chance to study engineering in the US, you bust your ass and make yourself successful.

IMHO we do have an overabundance of complacency and self-pity stateside.

Exposure to (well written) material and eloquent speakers will tend to enhance vocabulary and pronunciation for an individual. Conversing (and writing) with elevated vocabulary will - over the longer term - tend to raise the level of proficiency in any language.

Important to note that the United States does not actually speak (or write, or read) "The Queen's" English - it uses an "Americanized" version, including its idioms, spelling, and syntax. Also important to note that "The Queen's" English has mutated somewhat over time as well as a result of direct exposure to an increased ethnic and cultural diversity in the home country.

Point of interest - the actual and "in regular use" vocabulary of an individual is directly related to their education level. An average American with post-secondary education has a vocabulary of 35000 "English" words, of which perhaps 12000 are in daily use. Compare this to someone without a degree: 20000 vocabulary and 8000 daily use. For Hindi, an educated person might have a 45000 word vocabulary and use 27000 regularly; an uneducated person would have 22000 and 5000 respectively. Japanese numbers are very similar to Hindi.

Converting energy to motion for more than half a century

An then we have languages like French, which, compared to English, has a rather small working vocabulary. But then English, particularly the 'Americanized' version, has a huge lexicon, albeit beefed-up by technical terminology and a tendency to adopt foreign words and use them as if they were part of the regular lexicon.

I've mentioned this book before, but it's very informative with respect to the last few posts here, 'The Mother Tongue: English & How It Got That Way', by Bill Bryson:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_Tongue

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

Quote (zeusfaber)

Our son worked for a company that paid very high salaries to his best employees because the owner believes in keeping the employees who contribute the most. Our son admits that sometimes it traps you in a bad situation, like the crap he had to accept for years from his immediate boss. However, he retired at the end of last year and his new direct boss is much easier to work with, so he's glad he stuck it out.

I think that quote was from another thread where I was talking about our oldest son. He's been with the company since high school (he's now 54) starting out as a grill cook but is now an executive with the company, responsible now for the brand he started with, but for the entire nation. He says he can't even think about going somewhere else as he's paid so much that he could never duplicate it. He figures that he's stuck until he retires. He could still get promoted as he hasn't quite reached the vice-president level, but that would be his only next move. He's already in the executive-level salary deferment program (not a 401K as there's no limit to your annual contributions, and into which corporate just matched a significant portion of his current balance, which will vest over the next 10-years).

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without