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2x Nailer
2

2x Nailer

2x Nailer

(OP)
I need to attach a 2x nailer to a HSS section. It needs to be a flush connection.

Welded studs will not leave enough meat.

Simpson fasteners can only go into steel that is 5/16" thick or thinner.

Any ideas?

Thank you

RE: 2x Nailer

Simpson has a "Strong-Drive" TF Wood-to-Steel Screw -
Max. Grip length 1.939"
Can drill into steel up to 15/32" thick.

How thick is your HSS?

RE: 2x Nailer

You could pre-drill the holes through the HSS wall to facilitate thicker material while still using the simpson or teks screws.

What do you mean by welded studs don't leave enough meat?

RE: 2x Nailer

Can you post a sketch?

Could an angle be welded to the side of the HSS section and then the nailer could rest on it like a shelf? That would establish a bearing connection and your means of attachment becomes a lot less critical.

RE: 2x Nailer

Quote (jayrod12)

What do you mean by welded studs don't leave enough meat?

I think he means by the time you remove enough wood to make the connection flush it is too compromised.
How thick is your tube?

RE: 2x Nailer

You can also do powder actuated fasteners into different thicknesses of steel.

RE: 2x Nailer

I specify the Simpson TF's a lot, or if those don't work, then PAF's like jayrod mentioned.

RE: 2x Nailer

I'm with jayrod12 here, I use PAF's all the time for high end residential where shallow depths are wanted.

RE: 2x Nailer

I think the OP is referring to PAF's when he/she says Simpson fasteners can only go into steel that is 5/16" thick or thinner. Off the top of my head, I think I do remember Simpson PAF's being required to fully penetrate the steel with the tip of the fastener and there being some limitation on the thickness of the steel where full penetration can be achieved. Is that correct? The Simpson screws mentioned by JAE sound like a good option for steel up to 15/32" thick.

RE: 2x Nailer

I usually spec 2.5" Ramset PAF's for 2x nailers and I've never had anyone come back and say that they had trouble installing them.

Coincidentally, just recently someone asked me about this exact condition because their framer drilled 1/2" holes into the HSS tubes and used 1/2" bolts "threaded" into the wall of the HSS and said "yeah it's tight, the guy who did it used to work in steel construction". This nailer doubled as a ledger so there was no chance I was letting that go. Sent them a screenshot of the Simpson TF catalog page which they were very happy with.

RE: 2x Nailer

Quote (jerseyshore)

I usually spec 2.5" Ramset PAF's for 2x nailers and I've never had anyone come back and say that they had trouble installing them.

When I was doing a lot of CFS design, PAF's in thick steel were always an issue as many times they would not penetrate and thus not pull the fixture tight.
I suppose it will come down to how thick the OP's steel is.

RE: 2x Nailer

I agree, I rarely am specing something that's thicker than 1/2" for residential projects. For heavier duty or commercial projects Hilti has a wide range of PAFs I've used.

RE: 2x Nailer

(OP)
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond.

Quote (JAE)

Simpson has a "Strong-Drive" TF Wood-to-Steel Screw -
Max. Grip length 1.939"
Can drill into steel up to 15/32" thick.

How thick is your HSS?
Thanks. Researching that fastener also had me to update my library to the 2023 version of their fastening systems (C-F-2023TECHSUP.pdf)
My HSS is 3/8". Please don't suggest to use a larger section with a thinner wall. I need to meet h/t and b/t of the seismic provisions.

Quote (JoelTXCive)

Could an angle be welded to the side of the HSS section and then the nailer could rest on it like a shelf?
That would make it more difficult to conceal architecturally.

Quote (jayrod12)

What do you mean by welded studs don't leave enough meat?
I need to conceal the nut and washer. The nut is 7/16" for 1/2" welded stud. If the washer is 3/16" and leaving some threads beyond the nut, I need a counterbore depth of about an inch. That leaves 1/2" of meat.

Quote (jayrod12)

You can also do powder actuated fasteners into different thicknesses of steel.
Of course. My concern is that a gun install in 3/8" steel requires more force than a gun to install a shot pin through a 2x sole plate into a concrete slap. The contractors I work with might not have a gun powerful enough, but I will survey.

Quote (gte447f)

I think the OP is referring to PAF's when he/she says Simpson fasteners can only go into steel that is 5/16" thick or thinner.
No, I'm referring to screws.
And, for the record, it's he.

Quote (jerseyshore)

I agree, I rarely am specing something that's thicker than 1/2" for residential projects.
Me, too, but sometimes I have a WF beam with a pretty thick flange thickness (>15/32").

I really appreciate everyone's input.

RE: 2x Nailer

Quote (SE2607)

I need to conceal the nut and washer. The nut is 7/16" for 1/2" welded stud. If the washer is 3/16" and leaving some threads beyond the nut, I need a counterbore depth of about an inch. That leaves 1/2" of meat.

Could use a 3x nailer instead, assuming that fits architecturally. We use those almost exclusively for nailers on top of WF beams.

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