Advertising in the user forums is forbidden

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

Oh! delete it if needed, but I'm not selling anything -- everything is free at the links I offered.

I was just trying to fix the broken link that came up when I was googling for another purpose. That thread was closed so I didn't know how else to do it!

Christa

I guess there's a write way and a wrong way...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

I've heard it's easier to teach a writer to be an engineer than it is to teach an engineer to write.

Dear TigerGuy... I think it's only people who don't understand engineers who say that. Read the article at the link and I detail several of the reasons that the wrong people are trying the wrong way sometimes. It's not the engineers' fault... we just don't care about grammar rules (ho hum), we want FUNCTIONAL language.
If you want to teach anyone, go to where they're at instead of expecting them to come where you are!

Likewise all the horrendous math and physics teachers foisted upon the populace who tried to blame the students when the teaching was bad... students can achieve a lot when they're motivated. <3 (Banana bread often works as motivation for engineers too by the way.)

If you can't effectively communicate with clients, contractors, or end users of whatever you're designing or making, can you truly be a well rounded engineer?

When I started a position in a technology transfer program, I received one of the best job related compliments in a 30 year career. After submitting my first article for the quarterly newsletter, the program director said he rarely didn't have to teach a new hire how to write.

My glass has a v/c ratio of 0.5

Maybe the tyranny of Murphy is the penalty for hubris. - http://xkcd.com/319/

When I got to my last year in engineering school, they added a new class that was required for graduation, 'Report Preparation and Presentation'. Now the emphasis wasn't so much on writing as it was on being able to stand-up and make a compelling presentation. We were given classes in how to prepare presentation material (this was in the era of flip-charts and overhead projectors) as well as personal presentation skills. This last area, the university had just acquired some commercial quality video-taping equipment (3/4 inch tape cassettes) and they would tape our presentations and you could watch yourself on playback and be critiqued by the instructor and your peers.

The whole premise of the class was as ACtrafficengr alluded to, if you can't effectively communicate your ideas to the people who are actually going to be paying the bills or approving the resources, even the best ideas could die before they got off the drawing board. That was the whole idea, being able make your case and sell your ideas. Granted, some of our professors, particularly those with real-world experience, made it a point to have us defend our work, including making stand-up presentations before our classmates, but this new class assured that all graduates were going to get at least a bit of the material and some practice.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

And whatever you do in a presentation, DO NOT READ THE SLIDES TO THE AUDIENCE!!!!

I'm not certain that I've ever encountered an engineer who didnt write well, even among juniors and foreign-born colleagues who spoke rather poorly. IME the most-common language issue that engineers suffer is simply nitpicking others' use of jargon in a given context.

Some engineers are bad at public speaking or comportment, i.e., they don't project well.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

That reminds me of the saying about extroverted engineers: they look at your shoes when speaking to you.

I took a public speaking class while I had that tech transfer job. The students' workshop evaluation sheets showed a significant improvement in how they rated my effectiveness.

My glass has a v/c ratio of 0.5

Maybe the tyranny of Murphy is the penalty for hubris. - http://xkcd.com/319/

Your shoes are a bit scruffy, it seems to me

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

Authorities: "please stay six feet apart for social distancing."
Scandanavians: "Ew, why so close?"

There are plenty of charming, sociable, well-spoken, well-written engineers. Engineers are in general a highly intelligent and interesting species with diverse interests and good math jokes. I am in accord with CWB1. Even though many of us are on the spectrum, we know how to find Dale Carnegie training, etc.

Take that, IRstuff.

Christa, he misunderstood about your first post. He thought you were advertising services, but you are not. Neither is he advertising with his signature, but I agree with you. The signature is annoying, as are all signatures in the forums, in my opinion. Signatures are a bone of contention with the site moderators.

If you think engineers write well, skim threw a few posts on eng-tips. You will sea there improper use of many words in hear. Their trying to be quick, and if your not paying attention, it goes unnoticed.

And yes, that was painful for me to right.

@TigerGuy a good Norm Crosby! You maid my day. I feel you're pane.

Skip,

_{Just traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!}

Now, if you can teach Cranky to spell, then I'll be impressed!

#

I received an email that mentioned the chance for everybody "to way in" on a project. I thought my head would explode.

No whey!

Skip,

_{Just traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!}

There's a huge difference between formal and informal writing. Assign an engineer to write a technical manual or legal/regulatory document and you'll see very high-quality from most. Review their internal emails, IMs, social media, etc and you'll see a significantly different writing standard. Personally I'm not rereading much less applying spelling/grammar checks to voice-to-text, so yea, spelling issues happen. The other reality on this site is that there are many non-engineers as well as "engineers" in title only.

Stateside ABET requires both technical writing and oral communication courses during undergrad, and the profession requires near-constant formal writing after graduation.

How do I get an editor to check my writing?

I yearn for the days of my youth when I was handed company documents to proof read before publishing and I could have someone else edit/proof my writing. That was decades ago.

In the future, I would suspect that this is something that someone will try to use AI to accomplish.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

danw2,

If your company has a technical writer on staff, they can proofread your stuff. There are lots of freelance editors out there who would be glad to do proofreads, as long as you are willing to pay them. I can ask around. Probably, I am the one who shared Christa Bedwin's article in the first place.

--
JHG

Seems to me there now are AIs that can at least read your writing and critique it

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

We actually have an editor on staff. Lots of fun laughing at our own mistakes, incomplete sentences, and whatnot.

Most of my employers have had technical writers on staff whose primary duty was writing/editing technical manuals and sales materials. Technical/research papers generally require a higher level of technical knowledge, so we would have other engineers proofread them before seeking management's and the legal dept's blessing prior to publication.

Authorities: "please stay six feet apart for social distancing."
Scandanavians: "Ew, why so close?"

My Finland was never in your scheme because
1) We called it physical distancing
2) We understood the importance of social closeness through it all
3) Our leader was Sanna Marin
4) It was ten feet
5) "Scandanavian" is a misspelling of the Nordics that excludes Iceland