×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor
3

Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

(OP)
I have an application where a 4.16kV MV MCC feeds several 2-Speed 450hp/900hp motors pump motors. These motors currently have motor speed controlled via 2 seperate contactors with a seperate set of CT's and relays associated with each contactor (high speed & low speed).

The existing relays are older electromechanical type relays that we are looking to replace with new digital relays. I'm wondering if its possible to replace the (2) separate electromechanical relays with a single digital relay that can protect both the motor for both high and low speed applications? From what I see most motor protection relays only have a single CT input so would potentially need to parallel CT's so that the relay can see current from either contractor depending on what speed the motor is running at?

Were planning to use GE 869 relay as I now understand the 369 version of GE motor protection relay is now obsolete.

RE: Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

Considering the replacement cost and lead time of two speed 900 HP motors, don't go cheap on protection.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

2
The SEL (Schweitzer) 710 MPR has the ability to protect 2 speed motors. It holds the protection profiles for each speed in its memory. You would then just put one set of CTs up stream of the contactors and give it an input to tell the relay which speed you are running at.


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

RE: Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

All the modern motor protection relays available in the market can hold multiple groups of settings those can be switched using a binary input (BI).
I guess you can program the relay settings - one group for one speed and switch them using an auxiliary contact (from speed changing contactors) wired to the relay as BI.
I am not sure whether the CT input can be configured separately for each group of settings in these relays (needs to be looked in to further).

RE: Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

Thinking back to an off the wall revenue metering connection, that worked well as long as voltages were balanced;
I don't think that you the CTs in series.
A Blondel solution requires N-1 meter elements in relation to the number of lines.
ie: A delta circuit or a three wire wye circuit (a motor circuit) requires two meter elements for accurate metering.
A four wire wye circuit (line to neutral loads) requires three meter elements for accurate metering.
I was faced with metering an industrial load (About $100,000 per year billing) with only two element meters available.
One element metered "A" phase.
One element metered "B" phase.
The vector depiction showed an open delta connection of the CTs.
The third CT for "C" phase was connected in delta.
The ratio of impedances between the meter elements and CT secondaries is very high and the output current from the "C" phase CT is forced through the meter elements for "A" phase and "B" phase.
Each phase contains components of the other two phases.
Thus the "A" phase meter element measured the "A" phase component of "C" phase and the "B" phase meter element measured the "B" phase component of "C" phase.
The circuit is published in a recognized metering hand book. (Published by either Westinghouse or GE. Memory fails.)
I was skeptical, but hidden single phase check-meters running for a few months verified that the connection was metering accurately.
In you situation:
For a two winding motor, the CTs may be connected in parallel.
For a consequent pole motor, rather than metering the supply lines, meter a set of windings that has the same current whether running in high speed or slow speed.
It may be possible to meter with CTs in the leads to the shorting contactor.
Note on non-Blondel metering solutions.
Did you realize that all of the hundreds of millions of single phase, 120/240 revenue meters in North America use a non-Blondel solution?
The common North American revenue meters assume that the line to neutral voltages are equal.
When an unbalance loads cause a voltage drops in the neutral supply conductor, the metering becomes inaccurate. (But close enough. The slight error is in the favour of the utility. Want to try a class action suit? I am sure that the utility will argue that the error is offset by the extra un-metered I2R losses in the neutral conductor caused by your unbalanced load.)

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

GE 869 is not the answer.
Link 

RE: Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

Any SEL or GE Multilin motor relay can do this. You only use one set of CTs so move the high speed CTs to be ahead of the switching contactors or install new CTs. You'd have to really hate money to want a relay that can use two sets of CTs.

Quote:

GE 869 is not the answer.

So what if an old version of firmware is obsolete? The relay is still very much in production and will be for many years since it was just recently released.

RE: Single Motor Protection Relay to protect 2-Speed Motor

Yes, it is possible to program a relay for two current settings. You can provide digital inputs to relay for speed 1 & speed 2. The relay will see the current as per the speed input.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login



News


Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close