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Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2
7

Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

(OP)
TLDR; US Navy divers working with Norwegians planted C4 shaped charges under the cover of a NATO exercise.

The charges were later detonated using a sonar buoy dropped by an aircraft.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

How will we ever know?

Possible - Yes.
Probable - hmmmmm

Does it make a difference? Not now I think.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

2
Biden admin does have a track record of being anti-pipeline.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

PLEASE...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Quote (Wikipedia)

Critics have accused Hersh of being a conspiracy theorist. He has been criticised for contradicting the official account of the killing of Osama Bin Laden and for questioning the claim that the Syrian government used chemical weapons on Syrian civilians.[37][25] In 2015, Vox's Max Fisher wrote that "Hersh has appeared increasingly to have gone off the rails. His stories, often alleging vast and shadowy conspiracies, have made startling — and often internally inconsistent — accusations, based on little or no proof beyond a handful of anonymous "officials".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Quote (Hersh)

and for questioning the claim that the Syrian government used chemical weapons on Syrian civilians.

That one is actually proven, by no other then FOA the Swedish Total Defense Research Institute, the laboratory is located less then some kilometers from where I live.. so

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Yes, the guy's track record is not good, and he trades in sensationalism. But as to the pipeline, it is murky down there.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

The larger issue is that if the congress does not investigate this alleged act of war by the president ( who would have had to have signed a "finding" to allow the CIA and Navy to execute the plan) then it becomes a template for future acts of war, without congressional approval. The "deep state" evolves and grows in its strength by lack of congressional oversight.The theory goes that as China and Russia attempt to become more powerful ( via the belt and road initiative and via a Brics currency) the USA would need to increase its use of covert action to sabotage their efforts. It is only a matter of time before some sort of counteroffensive by those powers are similarly exercized.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

So if we are going tp make this about conspiracy theories...
Why did the US Navy do such a bad job of it, by only blowing up three out of four pipes?

And how about this one, Russians blows up their on pipelines mainly the two that was co owned by Europe and one that was only their own, leaving the fourth intact so they still could offer gas to Europe when they thought we would panic over the energy crisis, and still leave them with a income to pay for the war in Ukraine?
Of course this may also give them an excuse to make those counteroffensive you are afraid of.
Not sure they have neither time or resources for anything like that right now, the Russians that is.
But of course if they can stir up trouble in the Whitehouse I guess that will please them as well.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

This story is getting picked up by a some of the legacy media. I was surprised to see it in Reuter's. They didn't make their article about the US involvement, instead they made the article about Russia's demand for answers. I guess that gives them some wiggle room if it ends up not being true. Russia certainly is demanding answers while the US involvement could still go either way.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Only reason for the Russians demanding answers, is to keep up appearances and they wont to know what the Swedish prosecutors office knows and the Danes so they can use it to there own advantage.
Probably the ones demanding answers have no clue that it might be there own that have done this, but that is the way Russian governing works, the ones who are not top level are allowed to their thing as long as it suits the ones that are really in charge.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

I think there was something similar doing the rounds after the Kursk sank.

I think it went along the lines of a US sub getting damage repaired in Norwegian Fjord

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Seymour Hersh has done follow up interview in German media (Jacobin), followed by DemocracyNow, in the States. . . The world media is still filtering these accusations and their implications, notably the Europeans. Helsinki, for example, which is preparing an imminent vote to join NATO, and as one of the few Baltic countries not directly named in this conspiracy, are among the first to give Hersh full and fair coverage in their press. Whereas, besides Germany actually doing this particular follow through interview, other Baltic nations have largely avoided the subject, following the US lead.
Hersh has now made now this statement: that people in the pipeline industry are fully aware of the specifics of this conspiracy event. Hersh states he became aware afterward that the European pipeline companies involved in NordStream understand these events and know what occurred.
This allegation is intriguing, because of the inactive status of the pipelines prior to destruction. As some will recall, NS2 was under congressional sanction and unable to receive EU permitting, while NS1 was incrementally cutback, until the flow was halted. Russia was openly being accused of using the blue gas as a weapon against Europe, and of violating their contractual obligations to Germany. Despite the difficult fact that the pipelines were jointly operated by Europeans in two joint holding companies, so neither NS1 or NS2 were transmitting at the time of destruction, which gives weight to the supposition that these Swiss pipeline corporations were indirectly privy to the covert mining operation, set some 3 months beforehand, and so actively colluded to avoid a total infrastructure loss.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

To be fair there are tactical reasons for both sides wanting to do it.

The leaving one unlicensed pipe alone doesn't really fit with the theory. Unless of course they have found the dems pack unfired on it. But it could have also been a ploy to get it licensed.

Most of the Baltics really doesn't care, and it fits with their view on how the world works. @80% are just thinking about how lucky they were that LT wasn't first in line on the hit list. The other @20% are disappointed.

I might add if Russia had gone for the Polish/Lt border https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suwa%C5%82ki_Gap to connect Kaliningrad they would have managed and not had the issues they are having today.

Personally I really don't care if he is correct. In fact more of a "well done" for pulling it off so well.

My personal view is that for most round me that are pro Russian they don't even realise that the cancer has taken root and what ever happens in Ukraine the clock has been turned back decades in Russia. Skilled labour pool has been reduced massively and is unlikely to be replaced. And even if total defeat occurs or total win its not going to go back to the way it was. Even the pro Russia round me in Estonia are changing their tune. Although none of them really want to live in Russia, they like to go there for cheap fuel, food and pharmacy but not actually live there. A lot of the pro Russian feeling I suspect is actually utter hatred of the USA. Ukrainians are not well liked in the other ex soviet states. Some of it is to do with the amount of resources that was ploughed into the country and also they are associated with corruption and crime, which both views are not untrue. In fact one of Russias issues is that the bulk of the Military production both aviation and ground forces in soviet times was in Ukraine and they kept the plant and skilled labour after the collapse of the soviet union, the opposing generals went through the same officer training program. And one side has adapted and the other one can't. https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-battle-vuhl...

Russia hasn't managed to regain the industry or skilled labour from soviet times. An example of this is the latest series of tanks of which Russia built 2500+ of them. Not a single one has been used due to a defective engine. They are now talking about using T80 hulls which again they have thousands of in storage with a new turret and engine but both are limited because Russia has very little digital component production capability and a fair chunk of the people who could develop it have been used as cannon fodder or have legged it months ago. And the real skilled labour and design experience that the soviet union had mostly stayed in Ukraine. That's not to say they are anti Russian but they are unavailable even though they are thought to be trained and owned by Russia. Which is similar to the Nuclear workers.

And then the new industrial plant in Russia to replace the capital that went outside there control due soviet union collapse is western tech which they can't get parts for.


Once the conflict is resolved either way that will only be the opening moves complete of the middle game. There is no quick fix.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

that actually has more of a link than at first sight.

The fuel dispensing systems in RU are digital western tech for civilians. The military are still the old analogue much like the western Military.

Have a guess which ex soviet state was the centre for production of fuel metering and dispensing?

From what I understand its relatively complicated to take a modern fuel station back to analogue metering and control even if you go and find the old 1980's dispensers. And in Russia at that time they were mostly WW2 technology and vintage which is why they swapped them out to German tech as part of the pipes for gas post collapse deal with Germany. Which now they can get no spare parts for and no way of producing pipe to replace what they have got.

And even if they are defeated they still won't get them. If they win even less likely to get them.



RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Absolutely a lose-lose situation they got themselves into. I'd hate to attach my wagon to Chinese horses, but that seems to be their only way out now. They really stepped into it.

The mideast will always be able to undercut Russia's oil price to India and Africa, whenever they want to and in the interim, Russia is just just another annoying competitor they'd rather put out of business forever and probably will do so at first opportunity. One more gas station price war will finish Russia forever, but even that might not need to happen. As China sucks up eastern Russian oil production on the cheap, everyone else can go about establishing the new normal. As China decreases oil demand from the west, some downward price pressure in Western markets will present. It just remains for the west to keep demand from spiraling upwards.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Yada yada yaa..

Quote (SVT UPDATED TODAY 08:14PUBLISHED TODAY 03:58)

Russia wants evidence of Nord Stream sabotage

The United States should try to prove that it was not behind the sabotage of the Nord Stream gas pipelines that tied Russia to Western Europe, TASS news agency quoted the Russian Embassy in the United States as saying on Thursday, according to Reuters.

Moscow considers the destruction of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines last September "an act of international terrorism" and will not allow it to be swept under the rug, the embassy said in a statement.

In addition to Russia demanding "proof" from the US, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov also mentions Sweden's and Denmark's role in the whole thing.

- The countries have not responded to official letters from Russian government minister Mikhail Mishustin for six months, who asked to appoint those responsible for the contacts regarding the attacks on the Nord Stream, Lavrov said according to the AP news agency.

Luckily for US, winky smile in Sweden you are innocent until proven guilty and it is the prosecutor that needs to do that not the accused.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Nope, Swedish beer is guilty of being moose piss until proven otherwise.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

I am sure Scottish jurisdiction doesn't count here. tongue
Honestly not my coup of tea either, if not semi frozen on a hot summer day with nothing else in sight.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Its international and includes locals not just Scottish.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

"Pro-Ukraine group" doesn't exactly rule out the USA.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Or the rest of Europe, as well as most of the world's democracies.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Ok, but none of those have committed much of anything to supporting Ukraine. Only the USA.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

2
That's really not true Tug. It might not be the big numbers that the USA is pumping in but if you look at the GDP % its actually rather a lot.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

I suspect that the British and the Germans and the Pols would not agree with you. In terms of the resources at our disposal, compared to the other NATO countries who have been helping Ukraine, our contribution is not all that much more than many of them. For example, look at all of the humanitarian aid and resources Poland has expended in their effort to feed, house and care for the untold number of refugees who have fled Ukraine. The same can be said for other European nations near Ukraine. The US hardly has a monopoly when in comes to providing support for Ukraine and its people.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

We are only discussing capital input on a national level.

The amount of private labour and effort that's getting put in is utterly collosal round me.

And I don't know how the training input is accounted for.

To be honest if it's a pro Ukraine group it could very well still be Russian.

But realistically in that depth of water and it working I really can't see it being a group of like minded people pulling it off. A high up member of the Royal navy when asked genuinely laughed and said in my dreams we have that capability.

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Well in fact in percentage of GDP the Baltics beat US with quite a lot.



of course in money US leads.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Quote:

For example, look at all of the humanitarian aid and resources Poland has expended in their effort to feed, house and care for the untold number of refugees who have fled Ukraine. The same can be said for other European nations near Ukraine.

Ukranien refuges are spread out in all EU countries we have several here in Sweden too.
And most EU countries and I know US too, takes in wounded solders for medical care, treatment and rehabilitation.

And Ragnar Sass Estonia got a medal from Zelensky for collecting money for cars preparing them and the deliver them to Ukraine, a piece of it is mine. winky smile

https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/ragnars/status/1633...

The car



and my patch thumbsup2



getting one more soon..

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Well even though it is interesting it doesn't explain the second explosion.





And as was said in the interview is it possible for one ship alone drifting to pull this of.
Diving 500 meters then get picked up again even further away. ponder

And for the yacht theory here is a summer from the Ukrainian army.

Quote:

"US intelligence suggests that the attack on the Nord Stream gas pipelines was carried out by a pro-Ukrainian group

The statement added that they have no evidence that the president of Ukraine or his aides were involved in the operation, or that the attackers acted on the instructions of any Ukrainian government officials.

❗️German investigative bodies also suspect the attack on the pro-Ukrainian group Nord Stream

▪️Investigators managed to identify the yacht used for this operation.
It probably belongs to two Ukrainians and was rented from a Polish company.

▪️According to the investigation, the operation was carried out by a team of six people who transported explosives to the crime scene and placed them there .

▪️They used forged passports, which, among other things, were needed to rent a yacht.

▪️Shortly after the destruction, the Western special services sent information to the European partner services, according to which Ukrainian paratroopers were responsible for the destruction.

▪️After that, according to intelligence, additional signs appeared that a pro-Ukrainian group could be responsible.

▪️International security circles do not rule out that this could also be a false flag operation."

If I would be pro-Ukrainian and hade the resources to pull something like this of, I wouldn't rent a Ukrainian owned yacht and not in Poland.. hmm not smart..

And the fact that they haven't written (I admit I haven't been looking all over internet for information) which nationality the people in these forged passports had, is also strange. ponder

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

Russian ship photographed at Nord Stream 22th of September 2022 four days before the explosions.

It is however not proven that SS-750 was involved in this.

Quote (SVT PUBLISHED TODAY 13:27)

Russian ship photographed at Nord Stream

The Danish Defense Forces confirm that in September they photographed the Russian SS-750 special vessel near the site where the Nord Stream pipelines exploded.

The ship is specialized in underwater operations and normally has a mini submarine on board.
- A ship like this cannot appear unnoticed but is guaranteed to be observed, says Oskar Frånberg, docent in marine engineering at Blekinge Institute of Technology, to SVT.

This is the first time that the defense has confirmed that it is the SS-750.

NAFO Sergeant Anna Gr 69th Sniffing Brigade

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

The ship is specialized in underwater operations and normally has a mini submarine on board.

That answers all of my questions.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

It looks like it wasn't only the Danish coastguard boat Nymfen that was checking out something around the explosion sites the 22 September, the Swedish Marin Corvette „K31 Visby“ did too.







The Danes confirm Patrol Vessel P524 Nymfen took 112 photographs of Russian vessels on September 22nd 2022 while in the vicinity of the blast sites.

https://corporate-trust.blog/2022/11/17/scandinavi...

https://oalexanderdk.substack.com/p/danish-defence...

NAFO Sergeant Anna Gr 69th Sniffing Brigade

RE: Nordstream Pipelines Sabotage | Part 2

A reason for declaring force majeure was extremely important for Gasprom to avoid nondelivery penalties.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

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