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Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V
6

Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

When you said it is "time to move on", I was hopeful.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Since you're here... you got your wish.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Hey, an article about the weather that doesn't mention climate change or AGW once:

https://www.severe-weather.eu/global-weather/cold-...

An interesting read as it describes the effects of warming and cooling without all of the doom and gloom bias.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Arctic Greening... ponder

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/art...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
There will be lots of that stuff, Tug... it comes with the snakeoil peddlers... one of Reagan's educational advisors thought that an educated proletariat was a bad thing... and it looks like he got his wish.

https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I think the inability of students to pay off their loan debt implies that they did not get an education.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Maybe the education system has failed, too. Students are not normally the ones that set the curriculum. I suspect strongly that a country with a well educated population is far better off than the alternative. It shows something about the mentality of the politicians who do not benefit from a well educated population. It's not in their interests. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Another possible source of 'clean' power... don't know if it works or what the 'cradle to grave' footprint is, but if something like it can be used, it may help... ponder

https://newatlas.com/energy/swel-cheapest-wave-ene...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Aren't waves wind powered? Why add a middleman?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (TugboatEng)

Aren't waves wind powered? Why add a middleman?

Energy density amongst other reasons.

But this particular wave energy capture scheme looks a little problematic to me.

- Andrew

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Super... The methodology or due to wave action close to shore?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I'd say the size might be the biggest (see what I did there?) thing. Scaling it up to something useful would take a massive surface area.

It always seemed to me that the simple vertical bobbing buoy type system would be the most feasible with an array spread out over an area similar to how wind farms are, but my knowledge in this arena is also very limited.

- Andrew

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Methodology. The more power they try to draw the more rigid the device will become. With any kind of load on it the device will behave like a board floating in the water. We all know that board doesn't heat up getting tossed around in the waves so there can't be any energy being absorbed.

We can reverse the process to help visualize the energy involved.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&...

Here is a car driving on a floating bridge. It deflects much like the SWEL generator. How much additional power does the car use to drive across a floating bridge vs flat land?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Maybe there's a balance, Tug? If there is a mass, moving up and down over time, there's power of some sort... maybe a matter or harnessing this? That's what made me think that there could be merit, but as Super... noted... not in my realm, either.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Yes, there is a balance and it's tipped in the wrong direction. These types of oscillating devices don't work because of a very simple equation, work = force × distance. If you increase the load on the system force goes up and distance goes down. The force and distance balance each other out and there is no work done.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Of course there is some work being done ... but extracting that is difficult and creating a design to tolerate the extreme waves also difficult.

I'd rather look into tidal power, but now you're limited to locations with a large tidal race.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (dik)

If there is a mass, moving up and down over time, there's power of some sort... maybe a matter or harnessing this?

Ocean Power Technologies is the simplest one, like I was talking about with a vertical buoy, I know of since there's no hydraulics and it is a fairly self contained unit. The company still isn't ready for primetime (ie. not successfully deploying units), but I think the premise of their "Powerbouy" makes sense at least.

- Andrew

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Do the math. The heaviest navigation buoys weigh 10 tons, this looks to be a bit smaller but we'll give the benefit of the doubt.

(20,000 lbs × 3ft up) + (20,000 lbs × 3 feet down) = 120,000 ft*lbs of work done and this is REALLY generous as the buoy will be buoyant on the way down and the generator won't be generating electricity at the top and bottom when the buoy moving slowly. Also, the average strong swell is around 6 feet but the buoy has inertia and doesn't follow the full height of the swell (even without load) which is why I chose 3.

120,000 ft×lbs at let's say 6 times per minute for an average swell period is 720,000 ft×lbs/min or 21 horsepower.

In electrical terms that's 15kW. That's a really bad number and I made all of my assumptions in favor of a higher output and did not consider efficiency at all.

This is a scam just like the gravity battery.

There is a reason these systems use lots of mechanical parts such as ball screws and gears over strictly electrical means of generation, it's to create the appearance of work for the investors.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Probably why it isn't very successful.

- Andrew

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

You should see the building they're renting their office space in. I think they're quite successful. Not at generating electricity but fleecing governments and investors.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
This could be just the start: ponder

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11161167/...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The Lancet estimates that cold temperature kill 15-20x the number of people as high temperatures. Smoke on that one for a bit.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
We'll see how that works out... one of the problems with drought is starvation... that may pick up a bit? ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Drought not a symptom of global warming... The increased temperatures also increase crop yields and can open up the fertile northern land masses to agriculture. I don't know where you're pulling this starvation bit from? There is no common sense in these claims.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

As I posted previously, the models predict that inflows to Lake Mead will increase in the coming years. In other news the German weather bureau has changed its definition of a heatwave. What used to be defined as a period of 5 consecutive days with highs over 30°C, has been changed to a period of just three consecutive days – with a high of 28°C or more. I'm sure they've done it for very good reasons, not being alarmist at all. Of course the new definition no longer complies with standard terminology, but hey, anything to keep the frightened masses on edge.

My conclusion from this https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-what-climate... is that overall there will be more precipitation, but the models don't really agree on which areas will get wetter or drier.


Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Drought not a symptom of global warming...)


No but it can be a serious consequence of climate change... can have flooding, too. Another consequence; have you checked on Pakistan lately... I hear they have over 1000 fatalities, and counting. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

2010 was worse and that was only the second worse in the 50 years before that. This has always been a regular occurrence for the region.

Relating this to AGW is just as disingenuous as blaming the flooding in Mississippi on AGW when they have a past history of larger floods AND a past history of deteriorating infrastructure.

It's almost as if there are more important projects we should be funding instead of investing in buoys that bob a bit less.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Drought not a symptom of global warming...)


I'm not so sure... as things heat up... water on the ground evapourates and goes into the sky. The warmer it is, the more water that can be retained. Eventually some of this has to be released and when it does, due to the greater amount in the clouds, the amount of precipitation can be a lot greater... something I think we've seen of late.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Water in the oceans evaporates into the sky. It's generally thought that AGW will increase precipitation overall but will shift where it occurs. Good news is that most of the reductions in precipitation will be over the oceans.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Good news is that most of the reductions in precipitation will be over the oceans.)


That may not be good news... it may have a serious impact in 'dry' areas as well as the US south west.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

So you've gone from panicking about droughts to panicking about floods in the space of 10 posts. Truly global warming is the theory that explains everything!

Nothing we've seen 1940-2022 in Australia matches what was seen in 1850-1940, whether it is floods, droughts, or bushfires.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
...and the blame game starts:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/31/blame-gam...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (So you've gone from panicking about droughts to panicking about floods in the space of 10 posts.)


Even as a kid... I never panicked... just observations... I am, however, a little concerned; that can happen with mass extinctions, I hear. lol

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Maybe we should hold off on taking drastic actions until we better understand the problem ?

As for the blame game, you should post that over in the engineering disasters form as it would be more relevant there when it obviously stemmed from mismanagement.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
The problem is getting much worse as we get to understand it... Next thing, Santa may have to relocate... ponder

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/warmer-temperatures-a...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (dik)

Next thing, Santa may have to relocate...

This comment is surprisingly relevant as it highlights the absurdity of the environmental movement. The comment starts with a completely fictional scenario and they reacts to it in the completely incorrect manner. The obvious solution would be to put wheels on the sleigh.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (you should post that over in the engineering disasters form)


another apt place for it... there will likely be a large number of these cities confronting the same problem... a consequence of things starting to heat up... pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (The obvious solution would be to put wheels on the sleigh.)


You've, obviously, never had a chance to walk in the thawed, active layer, of permafrost. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

2
Please stop blaming everything on "things heating up". The Mississippi water issues are directly the result of mismanagement. It was not a record level flood event and in the previous years they had similar failures that were not addressed. Probably, the only connection to AGW in this specific event is that public service commission squandered their money on a solar farm instead of maintaining their water infrastructure.

https://www.entergynewsroom.com/news/mississippi-p...

Politicians want to support projects that get national attention so they neglect the life critical infrastructure that already exists. Instead of blaming the Jackson failure on AGW it should be blamed the climate change movement.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
That too, Tug... and there's a lot more of that coming down the road, I suspect.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Then stop being part of the problem!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (TugboatEng)

I don't understand the logic. CO2 has an insulating effect. We insulate our homes to make their inside weather more consistent and predictable. Why would CO2 insulation be different on Earth?

This is from the last thread but it cannot go unaddressed..

Comparing greenhouse gasses to 'insulation' is not an accurate analogy to explain their effect.

If you are determined to use a house as an analogy - consider the effect of two houses of different sizes, both of which have the same construction and an HVAC system of the same rating. The bigger house is going to be hotter in the summer and colder in the winter- because it has more surface area, it loses (or in the summer, gains) more energy..

Now take those two houses and put them on the dark side of the moon, where they are always exposed to the exact same temperature. IF the heat energy being input into both houses is exactly the same, the equilibrium temperature of the larger house will be colder than the small house - because the energy balance through any given square meter of the surface area of the house has a lower heating value. The physics here are pretty simple, it's just an energy balance.

The earth has an energy balance too - our planet receives massive amounts of radiation of many types from the sun. Some of that is absorbed, some of that is reflected, some of that is lost via the earth radiating back out into space.

When you add a bunch of additional greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere, you are changing the percentage of input energy which is absorbed or radiated back out. The earth, relative to space, is a steady state system. It's always receiving (generally) the same amount of input energy, and the external temperature (space) is always the same.


RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I get it. But where is the heat balance equation? None of the things anybody says really adds up. They're all hyper focused on a small detail just as my house insulation analogy was. There are a lot of crazy ideas based on too little information floating around. It's time to hit the brakes and evaluate the quality of those ideas. Heck, I used knowledge from my first year physics class to shoot down the gravity battery and wave buoy. We can do better than just posting sensationalized news articles here.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The disappearing Arctic lakes article included a gem of information. The Arctic is warming at 4 times the rate of the rest of the planet. So if, as we suspect, the put your hand out the window test is correct then that explains a lot, insignificant changes in temperatures over the vast proportion of the earth's surface where people live are unlikely to cause much difference in local climate.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (TugBoatEng)

But where is the heat balance equation?

https://web.archive.org/web/20210605120431/https:/...

This part of the conversation is settled physics that we've known about for a long time - and it 'adds up' because the earth isn't a ball of ice at -400C.

Quote (TugBoatEng)

Maybe we should hold off on taking drastic actions until we better understand the problem ?

This line of thought is like having an infection and telling yourself you should wait to go to the hospital until you figure out whether or not it's going to give you gangrene.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (SwinnyGG)

This line of thought is like having an infection and telling yourself you should wait to go to the hospital until you figure out whether or not it's going to give you gangrene.

But the flip side is taking a bone saw to the arm when we aren't sure which of the 5 fingers actually needs the chop.

- Andrew

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Possible new technology...

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/cont...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Climate change effect on plants...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (SuperSalad)

But the flip side is taking a bone saw to the arm when we aren't sure which of the 5 fingers actually needs the chop.

Yeah... no.

The lifespan of our fossil fuel based energy economy is finite, and I don't think any one would ever make the argument that the products of fossil fuels in the atmosphere are, in any way, good. There is literally no downside to developing alternate energy technologies and cycles, UNLESS you are financially tied to hydrocarbons in some way.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said, but I agree with everything you said following "no."

- Andrew

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Super... the problem is that no one knows the extent of climate change effects... as I noted, this could be a blip on the geologic time scale or it could be something a lot worse. When you have no idea of the outcome, it's difficult to make the 'correct' decision. With the potential outcome, something a little more proactive might be in order. The changes can be grave, and really 'ugly'.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Proactive? Absolutely. The problem I often see is proactive ideas promoted with concerning possibilities and a "We'll figure that out later" attitude toward the problems. That is basically what has gotten us into the current energy situation and we don't seem to be learning that lesson.

I think it is clear that I don't think the status quo is sustainable, but its more nuanced than fossil fuels = bad and renewable energy = good. So setting ambiguous net-zero goals with no real plan for the issues that go along with that other than "we'll figure it out" aren't going to give us what we need unless we manage to defy the history we keep repeating.

- Andrew

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Thanks, Super...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Yesterday Evon Musk moved up several notches in my estimation, asking for some moderation and even restraint in championing and exterminating the various energy sources.

https://electrek.co/2022/08/29/media-goes-nuts-elo...

Although the heated responses to his comments will likely add significantly and directly to Global warming.
I foresee a widespread boycott of TESLAs on the morrow.

Seriously I just hope an extremist assassination attempt will not be provoked from groups like the Russkies or enviro____ or ????

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I posted a notice of this earlier; it may be that this is moving towards fruition... The US might consider something like this... mind you, they seem to have trouble with 100 mph trains... pipe

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/fluxjet-transpo...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Yesterday Evon Musk moved up several notches in my estimation)


Sorry guy... Musk doesn't even have the foresight to realise that working from home may be a big thing in the future, when you may not be able to commute to work... fossil comes to mind and not fossil fuel. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

How are trains even considered a viable solution? One problem shuts the entire line down. Are we going to have to shut down entire cities in the future because a component breaks on a train and the workers can't make it to their jobs? We've seen the trickle down effects of COVID shutdowns. I'd hate to have to introduce high speed rail shutdowns.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
You may need high speed transportation when the planes and airports shut down... specially if you have long travel distances and a large population... You just don't know how far climate change will reach... and what it will affect. They seem to use lesser high speed trains very effectively in Europe and Asia for bulk people transportation. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (Super)

So setting ambiguous net-zero goals with no real plan for the issues that go along with that other than "we'll figure it out"

It’s nuts, isn’t it? It’d be like if they tried to achieve Kennedy’s moon goal by launching people to the moon before they’d figured out how to actually get to and land on the moon. “Oh never mind, they can figure it out along the way”.


And here we are, launching our societies at the Net Zero moon, busily shutting down traditional power generation, hoping for the best. And now our spaceship is signalling it’s low on power, because no one actually calculated how much fuel we’d need, and the lights are all starting to turn off. But never mind, let’s just push on to Net Zero. Let’s turn on the Electric Vehicle systems. We know we’ll need them on the Net Zero moon. Can’t give up on Net Zero. It’s important to stay the course.

Never mind that Chinese rocket that seems to be carrying a lot more fuel than us, and is accelerating past us.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
It maybe starts with their education system... at very least and a bunch of other things. A bit of an eye opener. pipe

https://socialistchina.org/2022/06/19/chinas-long-...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The irony of using the word education and following with that link...

About that high speed rail. In most countries our railroads are built in lumber, locally sourced aggregate and rails built from recyclable steel. What about high speed rail? What about all of the specialized materials required? The additional CO2 footprint of using refined concrete rail ballast? What about the material for the tube? How about all of the horsepower it takes to make a train go fast? It seems hardly the ideal solution.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (The irony of using the word education and following with that link...)


Like it or not, it seems to be working and was a response to Tom's reference to 'Chinese rocket'... As far as being the 'boogy man' the Chinese cities and infrastructure are not a whole bunch different that the US in developed areas, and they are rapidly improving in the rural areas. Any Chinese engineers I've met that have been educated in China are very good. Two of them that I worked with for a decade were working as structural engineers and became registered at my prompting had studied as Mechanical engineers in China.

As far as high speed rail, it may be that things will have to change to accommodate the added requirements. I have no idea of how much or what the end result will be... but we'll find out in the not too distant future. It will be interesting to see how the world and the US, each, address carbon footprint... I suspect strangely different. I don't know what happens if someone 'lags behind'.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

There have been talented engineers from
the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. What do you mean when you say you met a talented engineer from China? Bad countries have a history of producing good engineers. Regardless of the system in place, some people will thrive and some people won't. Here in the USA, cheap energy, and cheap food have allowed the greatest number to thrive and that makes the rest of the world bitter.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

This forum is supposed to be about solutions. Does anyone have solutions for obtaining all the raw and exotic materials that are required to support the new forms of energy and engines? How is the energy exhausted in all the mining required tallied with the 'net zero' calculation?

Doomsday speculation is not helping.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
thanks Hokie...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

You keep thanking other users for calling you out on your posts and then you continue on posting them.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Tug... it was going in a bad direction and Hokie corrected it. The material I post is not in error or false, to the best of my knowledge. There may be some possible mitigation and this type of approach may become more commonplace...

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/202...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
California is making some aggressive moves. This may be the type of action required, but it may be fraught with peril... pipe

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/climate/califor...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Now you're posting stuff we can't even view to offer our criticisms on.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I'll see if I can find the NYT article... didn't know it was behind a paywall. Maybe... pipe

https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/climate_change/cal...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

More paywall, it's as if they want to get approval from the their loyalists before they unload it on the general population.

https://calmatters.org/environment/2022/09/califor...

Yay, more traffic congesting toll lanes. Thicker plastic bags at the grocery store. More money spent on recycling that doesn't happen. More sea walls for Malibu.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Neither of them are paywalls on my system. There are likely to be a bunch of miss-steps on the journey...You'd think that tracking change would be the least costly and maybe one of the important things. With fewer cars on the road, it may not be so congested... ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

But they keep doubling down on the missteps. The CRV, recycling subsidy, is just a wealth transfer from the gov't to private corporations.

Everything they do literally increases pollution at my expense and that pisses me off. Meanwhile, you peddle their nonsense for what reason?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Snakeoil salesmen and profiteers... just watch them line up.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

So you support them? You sure do peddle a lot of their advertisements.

For example, you provide links from Interesting Engineering. Their editor and chief is Jolene Creighton who also peddles non fungible tokens in her side ventures.

https://nftnow.com/author/jcreighton/

A real snake oil saleswomen.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (You sure do peddle a lot of their advertisements.)


I believe you are mistaken, sir... ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

You have FIVE threads dedicated to it now.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Can you point out the faulty information? ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The information you share isn't faulty, it's groomed in order to make you act out of emotion instead of reason. You say it yourself. Something must be done because we don't know what will happen.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (it's groomed in order to make you act out of emotion instead of reason.)


Sorry Tug, none of my comments are emotional... I'm cool as a cucumber all the time. I'm just an observer at this point.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Something must be done because we don't know what will happen.)


This problem should have been addressed 20 years back or more, rather than just paying 'lip service' to it. There still hasn't been a concerted effort to address it, and it may be well beyond the point where we can make a difference. I do notice that climate events are getting worse, and more frequent than in relatively recent past, and I suspect things can get a lot worse. I don't want to sit down and put together a list of possible/probable 'uglies' that could result. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

When you say that you notice climate events are getting more severe and more frequent, I can't believe that to be true. I doubt you've experienced worsening severe weather in your own climate. I think what you have noticed is an increase in reporting on severe weather events around the world.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
The year of the Ark approaches... ponder

https://globalnews.ca/news/9099893/pakistan-monsoo...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (I doubt you've experienced worsening severe weather in your own climate.)


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/climate-ch...

Some places will improve and some places will get a lot worse, I suspect... pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Another article about a normal weather event. At least they didn't blame the event in climate change. Merely that we should prepare for weather like it. Isn't that how we always used to prepare? We'd build for the "100 year event".

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
It's not looking so good... I hope it improves in future... pipe

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2336018-most-...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Even the inventor of carbon capture came out recently and said it was a waste of resources. More snake oil. Let it fail, we need to stop wasting money on these stupid projects.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Even with viable solutions... there will be a variation in outcomes... some good, some not so good. Remember, we are in new territory. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Then let's stop funneling money into the pockets of venture capitalists and invest in improving our existing infrastructure with today's technology.

It's crazy to support projects like this when they can't even stand up to high school level scrutiny. Whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside I guess.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (Tug)

I think what you have noticed is an increase in reporting on severe weather events around the world.

And when you are primed for it, you start noticing weather events a lot more. You have in your mind climate change, and so climate change is what you see. It’s rampant in Australia. Statistically normal flooding being pointed to as clear an undeniable signs of the climate apocalypse.

It’s similar to when you work on a certain problem, or renovate your house a certain way with a certain finish, and you start seeing examples everywhere.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I have no experience researching psychology papers, however its interesting to note that searching for papers related to psychology and climate change results in a flood that all seem to assume negative climate change to be fact, not theory. It almost seems anti-science.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Speaking of floods... seems to be a feature of climate change: pipe

https://www.wired.com/story/pakistans-monster-mons...


So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
...a wave converter on it's way to Oregon. We'll see if there is any promise in this type of technology. pipe

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/03/wave-energy-c...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Dik, did you miss my high school analysis of why bobbing buoys won't work? Why do you keep peddling snake oil? Do you get paid to post this junk?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Dik, did you miss my high school analysis of why bobbing buoys won't work?)


I don't know, but I remember the adage, "People who say things are impossible shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it." I don' know if they are viable... it will be interesting to find out, but replacement energy is only part of the solution. There's a lot more to fix.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Oh sorry I thought we were panicking about droughts, or is that so last week?)


Nobody panicking here, Greg... it's just another feature of climate change. This could just be the precursor of something a lot more interesting...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Due to the lack of progress, some real scientists are getting discouraged, I think... ponder

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-09-04/cli...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

"real scientists".🙄 Remember, we can't even define what a climate scientist is.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
They're 'real scientists'... it's not who they are, but how they practice their craft... same goes with 'real engineers'. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

What qualifications does one need to be a "real scientist"?

How they practice their craft? Does that mean they need to conform to a predetermined series of beliefs to be legitimate?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
The same as those required to be a 'real engineer'.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I don't think so. Is there an ABET accreditation process for climatology degrees?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
A real interesting and exceptional article on EVs and global warming, by a motorhead... The summary at 23:06 is a real eye-opener. pipe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytWLB4-W-M

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Why do crude ships get singled out and high density housing doesn't?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Probably because of their footprint... dunno... high density housing, if done correctly, should actually reduce the carbon footprint a tad, I would think...

That article on EVs is excellent and really has a lot of good factual information. It's long, but easy to go through, with the summary starting at 23 minuites addressing a lot of the current problems and improper reactions. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The only difference between a ship and high density housing is that the ship can't offset it's carbon foot print by buying power from neighboring states.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The thousands of jet flights per day, make large ships emissions mean nothing. There is more jet fuel burned per day than diesel.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Ships don't burn diesel.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (enginesrus)

The thousands of jet flights per day, make large ships emissions mean nothing

Surprise surprise... incorrect.

Shipping and aviation account for about 3% of total greenhouse gas emissions each. Considering that ocean vessels carry something like 95% of international trade, they're WAY more efficient than aircraft in terms of CO2/ton/nm... but there's a lot of ships and they're running 24/7/365.


RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (The thousands of jet flights per day, make large ships emissions mean nothing. There is more jet fuel burned per day than diesel.)


There was a website that showed the boats in the water... there really a bunch of them... maybe thousands... ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Swinne... and automobiles only about 17% or so... that clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytWLB4-W-M

does a great explanation... pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Thanks Hokie... I remember about 30 years back in Oshawa at the GM plant... one of the robots went wonkey (sp?) and started knocking stuff off the assembly line... the workers were thrilled that these robots didn't work like they were supposed to.

It gets even more interesting when they use fossil fuels to create the electricity to power the electric cars. It seems people don't have a clue about what may be happening or how to address it. There, unfortunately, will be a lot of errors and we may not have time to deal with them. It could get interesting (in a Chinese sense). pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Reparations anyone? This just gets more interesting. pipe

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/04/climate-change-re...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Now you're starting to see the damage you're doing by spreading all of this climate change nonsense.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Sorry Tug... it's not nonsense... like it or not, it's happening. It gets really interesting when countries that have a small carbon footprint are harmed by countries with a large on. Who picks up the 'tab' for the harm done to them?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

More nonesene. Pakistan has been flooding for a very long time.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/09/01/archives/pakist...

1992 and 2010 both saw nearly double the deaths. Only recently did Pakistan realize they could monetize their weather by claiming climate change.

Don't forget, Pakistan sponsors terrorist organizations so they should never be gifted money.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (It gets really interesting when countries that have a small carbon footprint are harmed by countries with a large on. Who picks up the 'tab' for the harm done to them?)


The example was Pakistan, but the statement wasn't limited to them. It's an interesting question, nonetheless... ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

When you blame every single weather event on climate change this is what you get. A bunch of people sticking their fingers in the pot. If we cared about climate change we would be spending the money here. Then again, preventing climate change isn't the goal.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Not me... Australia has one of the higher per capita carbon footprints... maybe, time to pay the piper? ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Then again, preventing climate change isn't the goal.)


It most certainly should be! pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

No, the goal is money.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (No, the goal is money.)


Maybe, therein, lies the problem. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

So the bit that flooded in Pakistan has never flooded before? Wrong, it floods every 10 years, more or less. Even Nature, which regularly indulges in climate porn, says "Human-induced global warming could also be intensifying downpours. "



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
That wasn't said or implied... ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Geothermal pool experiment? At least we still have water... pipe

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/geoalagon-quebec-s...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I see no justice here. This is just an attempt to get government subsidies for a resort for the ultra wealthy.

Do you not see the patterns in what you post?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
There is no justice here, Tug... which is why countries may be suing for reparations... As I noted a lot earlier, things could get really ugly... It's the type of society that has been created and it's not easy to undo. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Tug,

Please stop encouraging him. Your time can be better used.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

It's going to get ugly if we pay reparations to a terrorist government. Next, Iran is going to want a piece of the pie. Don't create these stupid situations and the world will be fine, no ugly. We need only ignore Pakistan.

Hokie, dik showed his true colors when he posted that Socialist China link. This is only entertainment at this point.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
You would think... Poland, just recently, was looking for reparations from Germany for WWII issues... has nothing to do with alleged terrorist countries.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (TugBoatEng)

Hokie, dik shower his true colors when he posted that Socialist China link. This is only entertainment at this point.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.. but you two are opposite sides of the same coin. Sensationalism and denialism are bedfellows.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I think Poland is a bit angry with Germany for paving the way towards Europe's current energy crisis. At this point they are just poking fun at Germany for being the cause of all of Europe's problems over the past 100+ years.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Update on Sea Level: pipe

"Even if all the greenhouse gas emissions driving global warming ceased today, we find that Greenland's ice loss under current temperatures will raise global sea level by at least 10.8 inches (27.4 centimeters). That's more than current models forecast, and it's a highly conservative estimate. If every year were like 2012, when Greenland experienced a heat wave, that irreversible commitment to sea level rise would triple. That's an ominous portent given that these are climate conditions we have already seen, not a hypothetical future scenario."

https://phys.org/news/2022-08-greenland-ice-sheet-...

and tekkie stuff that even makes my head hurt...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-022-01441-2

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

And as I obviously wasted my time explaining, the sea level is largely increasing out in the middle of nowhere, not so much at coastlines except where tectonic plates are tilting, people are draining swamps, extracting artesanal water, or dredging mud out of channels close to shore.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

But Greg, the earth is flat. Sea level is the same everywhere.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I'm thinking 30 feet would be my ideal sea level rise.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Whatever it is Greg... they are, however, measuring it and it is increasing...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

...400 feet in the last 17000 years, dik. That means it's rising at a slower rate than ever in human history.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

So why is climate engineering called climate change? Co2 does nothing, again its the high and low pressure areas and winds aloft that effects weather and climate. And its obvious that those pressure areas are being placed.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

CO2 may change the distribution of those high and low pressures. The problem is that climate scientists don't use logic or science to predict how those distributions are going to change. Instead they chose to sensationalize any worst case scenario they can invent. Anybody that questions this gets labeled a denier.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (enginesrus)

So why is climate engineering called climate change? Co2 does nothing, again its the high and low pressure areas and winds aloft that effects weather and climate. And its obvious that those pressure areas are being placed.

dude what

This is a new low even for you

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (TugBoatEng)

The problem is that climate scientists don't use logic or science to predict how those distributions are going to change. Instead they chose to sensationalize any worst case scenario they can invent. Anybody that questions this gets labeled a denier.

Your posts make pretty clear that you haven't made any real effort to actually read the work of actual climate scientists.

There are climate scientists who use a dispassionate, wait for it.. science-based approach to this topic. The unfortunate thing about click-driven media conglomerates is that to actually find the real science that's being done, you have to work to go find it.

Reading summaries of scientific papers put out by major media isn't going to tell you what the science being performed actually says - it's going to have spin. Scientists aren't political.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

We still haven't defined a "climate scientist". Why should I form an opinion from their nonsense? Do know that I am a conservationist. Environmentalism and conservationism are contradictory movements at this time.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (TugBoatEng)

We still haven't defined a "climate scientist". Why should I form an opinion from their nonsense? Do know that I am a conservationist. Environmentalism and conservationism are contradictory movements at this time.

That's quite a deflection.

Your posts do not reflect the attitude of a conservationist, at all. I think that's a mask. I respect you enough that I don't think you have any 'evil' motivation for taking this stance, but what your actual motivation is, is confusing.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I just like being different. There is no value to parroting one side of a story. Sometimes I have to reach a bit to do so.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Tug... as my son would say, "You're unique." Just like everyone else. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Swinny you never listened to LBJ did you? He was in the know.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (Skinny)

Reading summaries of scientific papers put out by major media isn't going to tell you what the science being performed actually says - it's going to have spin.

It’s that way by design. The scientists are producing science in the aim of being featured in the IPCC. You’ve made it as a climate scientist when your work is central in the IPCC reports. The IPCC is clear on what sort of information it wants from scientists, and climategate showed what climate scientists are prepared to do to be featured.

The UN IPCC packages up the latest science into into the almighty IPCC report, which it releases to the media with an additional dose of spin. In this case the spin was “code red for humanity”

https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1097362

That’s the point the media comes on board, further hyping the “code red”.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58130...

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/1...


Mission achieved - Wall to wall “code red”, based on climate science. And yet with plausible deniability that it’s the “media” exaggerating things, should anyone query the “code red” hysteria.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (That means it's rising at a slower rate than ever in human history.)


Not necessarily, Tug... in past mass glaciations have occured numerously with several millions of years between...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_glaciati...

we have no idea of the rate of transformation... I suspect the rate may have been a lot slower than it is today... with climate change, we've speeded up the process considerably. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Sea levels have risen 400 feet in the last 17,000 years. That's 0.28 inches per year. Much faster than current trends. This millions of years bit is nonsense.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
The rate was from the melting of the previous glaciation... maybe it's a continuing process. We'll just have to wait and see... Things do, apparently, appear to be speeding up. We'll just have to wait and see... I hope you're correct, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. pipe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Climate change creates a threat to trees. I think it's a little stark, but possible.

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-studying-e...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
It will be interesting to see how this is addressed... pipe

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/10/african-n...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Some tipping points that may be coming up: pipe

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/tipping-point-clim...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
You haven't convinced me...hourglass

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Someone is starting to get a little concerned... pipe

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/1...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Another component to sea level rise... pipe

https://phys.org/news/2022-09-crucial-component-se...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
With heat over time... the polar regions are warming at 4x the rest of the world.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Dik, I suggest you review your sources. They're getting worse and worse. Phys.org is anything but a non-profit. It's an arm of the ScienceX network feigning credibility with a .org domain.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (GregLocock)

OK, slowly. You have some very cold rock, and a mile high lump of ice on top of it. How does the heat in the atmosphere get to the ice/rock interface?

This mile-high lump of ice is surrounded on all fronts by seawater, which is changing temperature seasonally and also in the long term.

This mile high lump of ice weighs millions of tons and is constantly in motion on top of the pointy rock it's sitting on; in other words, it's generating a LOT of heat due to friction.

In short, the path to melting of the ice at the interface with the rock under it has nothing to do with heat conducting through the glacial cap.

There are areas of the antarctic continent which are known to have water between the base of the glacier and the underlying rock. This Stanford study looked at the possibility of basal melting in new areas; it did not invent the concept of basal melting itself.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I thought all glaciers had water underneath? It may not be heat related. It's hard for ice to form under pressure/weight. There is some unique property of water that makes this true.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

NASA's climate division is again a questionable source. Without negative reporting it wouldn't exist.

Windows2Earth is a science teachers association. Science teachers typically aren't scientists.

Question your sources.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Another possible improvement in transportation, Maglev... If abundant hydro or non-fossil fuel power this can be another option. pipe

https://www.techspot.com/news/95951-magnetic-levit...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (I thought all glaciers had water underneath?)


In one form or another... I seem to recall from grade school that it was called 'regelation' or something of that ilk. I guess the interlock with irregular soil surface tends to keep it anchored a bit... pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
...and from Fox, too. Whoda guessed... Catch this link, it may be more pertinent. A sign of the times and of the frustration of scientists, perhaps.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-09-04/cli...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (Dik's article )

Instead, they presented the case for scientists to adopt a more radical approach to counter the "lack of transformational government action":

You're proving my point. This is no longer about climate or science. It's strictly political now.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
No tug... political or not, climate change is happening.pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Yes but we don't need to radically transform government because of it.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I don't know what's going to happen... if there are serious consequences, there may be serious changes to not only the government, but the way of life... I just don't know what the outcome will be, but I do know this is possible, and may be necessary based on their current inaction. ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

All you're doing is steering us towards the worst possible outcome. Destabilization of the Western world AND climate change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I'm not steering you anywhere, tug... I have no control over the end result and am not promoting it. It's simply an observation that things could get really ugly. I don't know that they will and am not promoting it. I understand why the 'tire slashers' are doing the stuff they do. I don't condone it, but I understand why. Two really big differences. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Sharing all of these links is promotion.

You understand the tire slashers? How? They're literally generating waste and CO2 emissions. That should be counterintuitive to a logical mind.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I understand why they are doing it... out of fear for the future and the inaction of the governments. It's wrong and criminal... it will be interesting to see how other people react, if their livelihoods are put as risk... normal people, like my neighbours. See how the US has reacted to Covid... it might get a tad worse. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

So fear makes us do stupid things like slash tires and wear face masks with fake standards (looking at you KN-95). Maybe we should stop promoting fear, instead embrace the inevitable so we can power our way through it. The Western governments have the ability adapt for climate change. Then again, the messaging you share makes it clear that the goal is to upend Western governments and climate change is the weapon to do so.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
More likely frustration and not fear? China appears to be adapting to it better. The response of western governments has been terrible and doesn't look like it will improve. We'll have to wait and see. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

What is China doing to adopt? They are taking advantage of the Ukraine conflict to build a gas pipeline from Russia which will make them less dependent on Australian coal but that's about the greenest thing I've seen them so.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Check this... They are going big on renewables... "China now accounts for nearly half of global renewable capacity and has even bigger clean energy targets in its sights.", and if you look at per capita consumption production, they are down the list quite a bit, about half the US carbon footprint.

Their carbon footprint includes that caused by manufacturing stuff for the rest of the western world. It's easier for the west to point a finger than it is for them to undertake corrective measures, it would seem. pipe

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/China-A...

From that article, "Despite big talk from the West, China is pumping huge amounts of funding into its renewable energy sector as it seeks to become competitive in its green energy operations. Heavy investment in research and development has helped China develop several innovative technologies to support its renewable energy rollout. In addition, government subsidies on electric vehicles (EVs) have helped to increase uptake and build a strong consumer market."

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
...with big oil helping out. pipe

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/1...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Climate activists say stupid things and oil companies make fun of them? This is an explosive revelation? More meaningless hyperbole from The Guardian.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

That website is just as kooky as dik's links.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Sorry tug... there's nothing improper about my links.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

They have the same level of junk science. It's just easier to pick on the guy that doesn't get paid to peddle their junk.


Looking at enginesrus' link, it has nothing improper, either. Forest fire as a military weapon is a real thing. We tried to use it in Vietnam with all of that napalm but it was too humid. We went the chemtrail route instead and dropped Agent Orange on everything. This may not be fresh in our memories because we haven't fought in a forest since, mostly desert conflicts now.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I remember Vietnam well... I helped draftdogers find work, accommodations and legal assistance in the late 60s, up in Canada... a fun time, for some.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Figures.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (dik)

"China now accounts for nearly half of global renewable capacity and has even bigger clean energy targets in its sights.", and if you look at per capita consumption production, they are down the list quite a bit, about half the US carbon footprint.

I think the issue we have with China (related to C02 emissions and global warming) is the DIRECTION they're headed. The US is actually headed downwards in terms of CO2 emissions. Whereas, China is headed upwards. Part of this is an expanding Chinese economy and improved standard of living, of course. But, still it's a concern.

https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1663454448/tips/CO2_Emissions_over_time_i7qkke.webp

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Yeah Tug everyone is stuck in the 1800's as far as real science goes, I think the issue is not wanting a certain reality ruined. It should be obvious to anyone old enough that has studied weather patterns, that the climate slash weather is being engineered. And that site, showed the reason.
Co2 and gases do not cause the conditions we experience. Why not just watch the local weather forecaster explain how the high and low pressure areas are directing the flow of weather systems.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Tug, you were wondering what happens beneath glaciers... pipe

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2022/09/13/what-...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
No doubt Josh... and no one seems to think this could be a real problem... that's the sad part.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Just doing my part, Hokie; are you surprised?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Not really, but am dismayed.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

What is your part? You've spent a lot of time on here plugging for the CCP and supporting climate misinformation and profiteering. Now you tell us you've actually taken physical action to support the CCP? What do you want us to think.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
In no way do I support the CCP... and I have no bias... just that others that could be doing something aren't doing anything. I'm curious to see how this ends up. Fortunately, at my age, I won't likely be around to see the end result. I don't think it's going to be pretty. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

You keep idolizing or at least white washing China's contributions to climate change. China and the USA both spent $380 billion on renewable energy. How does that work out per capita?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The real science is ignored. Climate change is a creation to affect a change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Maybe China is only a small part of the problem, albeit still a problem. Not necessarily the biggest part.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
about 1/5... but, look at what they are achieving. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

What are they achieving? They are one of the only countries to increase their CO2 emissions post COVID.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

They furnished the world with Covid, now are furnishing the world with increased emissions. Good old China. Great achievements.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

China is planning to rely heavily on coal usage out through 2060.

only goes to 2040, but they are building coal plants at a rate exceeding the rest of the world. These are not designed for a 10 year life.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Coal is only part of the the fossil fuels for CO2 production... as I noted earlier. See China down near the bottom of the list. Australia beats them for per capita coal carbon footprint. Their coal carbon footprint is nearly 2x the US, but is only part of the CO2 footprint. The US carbon footprint, per capita is about 7x for oil and about 13x for gas. Trying to blame someone else for the cause is no reason to avoid doing anything, including cleaning your own stables first. pipe



So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

So the solution is to drastically reduce the Chinese population. I'll buy that.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Look how China catapulted itself forwards after their "Cultural Revolution". Now it seems we are trying to emulate the same.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Way back in the late 60s when everyone was remarking and ridiculing how the Chinese population was reading and reciting Chairman Mao's little red book, my comment at the time was, "At least they are reading."

And from the World Bank, "Over the past 40 years, the number of people in China with incomes below $1.90 per day – the International Poverty Line as defined by the World Bank to track global extreme poverty– has fallen by close to 800 million. With this, China has contributed close to three-quarters of the global reduction in the number of people living in extreme poverty. At China’s current national poverty line, the number of poor fell by 770 million over the same period."

They seem to be moving in the right direction, anyway. pipe

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/20...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (So the solution is to drastically reduce the Chinese population. I'll buy that.)


It may be more productive to reduce the American, Canadian and Australian populations, Hokie. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

You are showing your true colours, dik. But from some of your other detestable comments, I suspected that all along.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Hokie, you were the that suggested reducing populations to cut back the carbon footprint... You missed the most offensive ones... More interesting news:

"Amy Cooke, CEO of the conservative John Locke Foundation, expressed concern that preventing companies and their hired PR firms from spreading misinformation about climate change would have a chilling effect on free speech." It's amazing how they can spin this. pipe

https://theintercept.com/2022/09/16/fossil-fuel-in...



So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

You blew your credibility out of the water with that Socialist China link. I know I keep bringing it up but it's the most blatantly pro CCP thing I have ever seen posted on the internet. Your latest comments confirm our suspicions. It's time for you to do some reflection and walk back some of the things you have said. China is not a role model. Neither is Canada.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

JMO but idolizing China in an emissions-reduction discussion is like idolizing an obese person in a weight-loss contest. Obviously the unhealthy can drop more/faster than those already healthy.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I only see China as a real problem, but not the worst one... I also see China as having come a long way in the last 50 years. Far more than most western countries. Looking at their major cities and infrastructure, they are on par with most western civilisations. My information is generally correct and there is no bias to it... other than countries that should be leading the way, aren't. You have to present all protagonists and based on the information available make a choice about who is dealing with climate change, with or without caveats.

You accuse China of having a large carbon footprint... the US footprint is nearly twice as high... that's the real 'number'... when that doesn't work you accuse China of using more coal than the US... yes they do, but Australia and South Africa use more than China. You fail to realise that their carbon footprint is still small compared to some other countries. You accuse them of being backward and not addressing climate changes, where with alternative energy methods, they are way out in front... vilifying me is not going to change these outcomes and is not going to improve the western carbon footprint...

I can deal with an adversary without vilifying him, first.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

You're celebrating China spending more money on weight loss treatment while still gaining weight...

In short time China is set to exceed the USA's carbon emissions starting with the the discovery of fossil fuels.

Speaking of food, maybe China is offsetting their carbon emissions with all of that gutter oil? There is something evil afoot when such a problem is so widespread.

Here you are defending the worst government on the planet, just as we predicted. They're terrible overall but they say (not do) something you like so they're a tolerable evil.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Speculation, Tug... so far, according to data, they are doing OK. There is a lot more for them to do. If they had developed in the same manner as the US, they wouild be top... same with India. Unfortunately that title of being #1 is held by others. The tons per capita I posted earlier clearly shows where the problem lies and who is causing the problem.

Another interesting article from this AM. This could become something in the future. Rather than try to pin the blame on others, the effort should be going into fixing the problem. If you do not think there is a problem, then there is a fundamental disagreement. Strawmen (binary) aren't able to solve this problem or help.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/1...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Doubling down I see. Now it's environmental Communism that is going to save us?

All that is going to do is encourage 3rd world leaders to put all of their poor in flood plains so they can eliminate their undesirables and get paid when they blame it on climate change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
There may be things that are a lot worse... and the western democracies aren't exempt. We have to wait and see how this turns out. It may reach a point where it cannot be corrected or remedied.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The weather person showed the low pressure off california that normally would be up near seattle, and called it a stagnate high pressure just above state of washington line, and helping to keep the warm temps and block all our normal weather. They have their weather engineering down to a fine science yes the real weather and climate science. If all that they preach about the green this and that happened I just bet (predict) the weather would all return to normal instantly.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (enginesrus)

They have their weather engineering down to a fine science yes the real weather and climate science.

So let me make sure I have this 100% straight..

You believe that the quality of design engineering on consumer products generally, and specifically all engineering across the internal combustion engine space has degraded so significantly since the 40s and 50s that there are 'no real engineers anymore' (a thing you've said several times in your various engine-related threads)

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME,

Engineering has become so advanced that we can plan and execute fine control of global weather systems in order to prevent rain in some part of California in which you happen to live.

You actually believe that?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
...and then Lorenz's butterfly appears on the horizon. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Easy, Swinney. Mechanics are to mechanical engineers that climatologists are you climate engineers. It's the climatologists that are getting things done, not the engineers.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

You are an anomaly. You comment anti-capitalism rhetoric yet mostly share propaganda from the western banks.

From carbontrackers's website:


Quote:

Carbon Tracker is an independent financial think tank that carries out in-depth analysis on the impact of the energy transition on capital markets and the potential investment in high-cost, carbon-intensive fossil fuels.


Your credibility dips lower every day. Please research your links.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Your credibility dips lower every day. Please research your links 

Is that what you did when you started a thread on "Equivalent Climate Change", and posted a single author paper that states in the ethics disclosure that it is an "independent personal research project conducted at home at the author’s spare time"?

I suppose credibility has a lower limit, which suggests that you have very little left to lose.



RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

What is wrong with that? Independent research is bas? What are you saying? Was anything in the paper false? Do you even understand what the author was trying to say?

One loses credibility when they drift away from climate change and start circling around climate justice. Reparations to Pakistan for their last flood is not constructive.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
There has been an improvement in the ozone... See Tug and Hokie, it's not all doom and gloom. pipe

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/09/19/the-ozon...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Is this before or after the Tonga volcano eruption injected a massive amount of water into the atmosphere that is going to inhibit ozone production?

More 1-dimensional thinking in a 3d world from the "scientists".

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Carbon Tracker is an independent financial think tank)


That in no manner invalidates the data. You consider both the source and the data. It's like 'big oil' insisting their right to publish false information is protected by the first amendment.

Quote:

You comment anti-capitalism rhetoric yet mostly share propaganda from the western banks.

I have no problem with capitalism... it's unbridled capitalism that I'm cautious about. We are largely in this mess because of it. We are now paying for what many others should have paid for in the past. The First Peoples concept that we do not own the future, we borrow it from our grand children is apt. One of the fundamental purposes of a government is to look after the long term interests of the people; they have failed miserably. Off my apple box.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Much of the current environmental movement IS unbridled capitalism. You've got the media constantly cranking out click bait doomsday articles to promote advertising revenue. You've got advertisers painting every product as green. You have megacorps lobbying governments to pass laws only they can afford to comply with. You have governments dictating expensive new constructions (California's gas car ban). Banks are chomping at the bit to generate loans to fund the expensive new constructions. And if we can blame ourselves for everything, the lawyers are ready to take 1/3 of it when the lawsuits start.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
If there's a buck to be made... beware of snakeoil salesmen, and other capitalists. There will be a lot of that coming out of the woodwork in the next little bit. If you think they are overreacting now... just wait until things get really interesting. Mistakes will be made. California is on the right track to eliminate fossil fuel vehicles, but their timing couldn't have been worse, telling people not to charge them with the pending power issues. EVs are not the answer if you have to use fossil fuel for power generaton. People are going to have to cut back on travel in the future. Things cannot remain as they are. Unfortunately with the action taken so far, we just have to wait to see how this shakes out... as the preacher says, "for better or for worse."

Quote:

Much of the current environmental movement IS unbridled capitalism

Unfortunately they are not the only unbridled capitalists, and they have only been at this recently. It's easy to deflect their actions by vilifying them.
pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

At least the "problematic" unbridled capitalists leave us with something good at the end. The environmental capitalist leaves us with nothing at all.

Speaking of EV's and California:
https://www.ksbw.com/article/fire-battery-storage-...

That didn't take long. Wonder what pollution this is causing? I believe lithium batteries give off lots of acid gasses such as hydrogen chloride when they burn.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I'm not sure, Tug, you may be premature... we have no clue about what the end will be. I would suggest the mess the unbridled captitalists have left us isn't really good, either. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

President Lyndon B Johnson,

“It lays the predicate and foundation for the development of a weather satellite that will permit man to determine the world's cloud layer and ultimately to control the weather; and he who controls the weather will control the world” - Vice President Johnson at Southwest Texas State University (1962)

https://weathermodificationhistory.com/president-l...


RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Look at the year, 1962. The Russians had just put a man in space. That comment was meant to get Americans on board with the space race. It was meant to stir up fear for funding. The goal was to prevent expansion of the USSR. The actual idea is a bit preposterous, however.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote:

he who controls the weather will control the world

This gives you an inkling of the scope of the problem you are looking at, and why it's so difficult to model.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

That URL cracks me up, proof that there is a site for everything on the internet.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Weather model biases... pipe

https://phys.org/news/2022-09-climate-clouded-scie...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Yeah LBJ's quote fits what is happening in front of us.
Engineering something say like the SR71 is a whole lot different than, the average late model automobile that seems to be designed to fail. Since someone commented about how there could be advanced engineering projects versus consumer items. When the engineering departments have unlimited funds to work with, of course the out come of what ever they work on will be orders of magnitude ahead of what the average consumer products companys can and will produce. Geo engineering, kinda ruins the orthodox climate/ green agenda, of course it will be denied.

I will continue to search.
I like when the experts think something weather related is strange. Yeah of course it will be its engineered. So yes climate change is human caused, but not by what everyone is lead to believe.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I don't understand your comparison. If you ha a full support team and unlimited budget to rebuild your Geo Metro every night I'm sure it too would last a very long time. The SR71 was afforded luxuries and attention that most econoboxes aren't privee to.

Maybe you're trying to say that if we took the money we are burning on green education/advertising and just give it to the engineers to improve our current infrastructure we would be much better off?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

He's saying that 'geoengineering' is successful because it's better than all other engineering efforts by way of unlimited budget

We're off the deep end, as we usually wind up when we try to make sense of something this dude posits as truth

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Some Good News, maybe...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/kigali-ame...

https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/09/20/vertical-a...

and, some Bad News... pipe

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/22/britain-l...

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-The...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/aimco-fossi...

Governments seem to be dismissing climate change...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

No, they are realising that poverty now is worse than some mythical climate emergency at some time in the future usually heralded by tipping points which mysteriously fail to occur. And also of course that any reduction in CO2 output by western nations is dwarfed by the rising CO2 emissions of the rest of the world.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Another interesting take... pipe

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/1...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I think that's what we call a garbage take. Disaster profiteering. They're the worst kind of people/countries.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Antarctic Ice, for the last 45million years...

"The link between CO2, sea-surface temperatures and the amount of ice on Antarctica is clear through the last 45 million years. But one surprising finding was that ocean cooling did not always correspond to increases in Antarctic ice. Specifically for a 1 million year long period of ocean cooling from 25 to 24 million years ago. "We show that this is likely related to tectonic subsidence and the influx of relatively warm ocean water in the Ross Sea region," says Dr. Bendle.

"We can see that ice in Antarctica is currently changing—not least with the loss of some ice-shelves and cracks appearing recently in the Thwaites Glacier, one of the largest glaciers in the region. This new study of Earth's past is one of the clearest indications yet that humans continue to produce CO2 levels for which we can expect major ice loss at the Antarctic margins and global sea-level rise over the coming decades and centuries.""

https://phys.org/news/2022-09-scientists-million-y...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (They're the worst kind of people/countries.)


How about those making money from what they've caused, Tug.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Real or possibly snakeoil? ponder

https://interestingengineering.com/science/china-a...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Neither, it's propaganda. Chinese state media has been reporting it for over a year.

https://newatlas.com/energy/china-claims-fusion-re...

Interesting Engineering is not what it sounds to be. It's a paid advertising medium, not a journal. There is zero review of any claims made on that site.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I'm not so sure, we'll have to wait and see where this leads. As far as review, I don't know. If propaganda, then it's snakeoil, albeit with a political purpose.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Silver lining? from Oxford's propoganda's machine... just learned a week back that my granddaughter is studying, on line, at Oxford. pipe

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62892...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Brilliant, let's put trillions in taxes on item 1 and then tell people they'll save trillions by using irem 2 instead.

I don't think that's propaganda anymore, just pure gaslighting.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Tug, you and I have no idea of the costs involved, if things go south... it could easily be in the trillions.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

We have past history that tells us to expect an additional 10m of sea level rise. We have past history that shows a rate of rise of up to 3 meters per century. We will need to move our low lying cities to higher ground. That is going to be expensive but at least we'll have modern, clean, efficient cities to show for it. Instead we chose to chase zero carbon and all that is doing is increasing the wealth gap with nothing to show for it.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
The big difference is that at that time there wasn't the buildup of people, structures and infrastructure... there will be a big and costly difference if it happens. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (dik)

The big difference is that at that time there wasn't the buildup of people, structures and infrastructure... there will be a big and costly difference if it happens.

Is this an admission that climate change is not human caused? That it has happened before there was a build-up of people, structures, and infrastructure? And it will happen again regardless of people, structures, and infrastructure?

Maybe we need to shift our focus to building weather modifying satellites to preserve our climate as is if that is the most important goal.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (Is this an admission that climate change is not human caused?)


Absolutely NOT!

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Welcome to the dark side smarty.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

lol newsman

now we have it all in this thread

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Finally got some balance, eh?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Like I said earlier... opposite sides of the same coin.

Everything you've ever said to anyone about 'check your sources' sure as shit applies to Newsmax.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
It's all in the timing, dear... pipe

https://phys.org/news/2022-09-dinosaurs-survived-c...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
... and one of the worst offenders and polluters with the blessing of the Canadian government. pipe

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/pembina-ins...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Now lets talk about what sort of machinery it takes to maintain a high pressure area just north of Washington state (that keeps rain etc away) for approximately 3 months 2 years in a row?
No I really don't think R12 filled balloons are it.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Do you think there is machinery that maintains a high pressure area over Washington? Do you consider balloons machinery?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (enginesrus)

Now lets talk about what sort of machinery it takes to maintain a high pressure area just north of Washington state (that keeps rain etc away) for approximately 3 months 2 years in a row?

I would love to hear your theory on this

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I thought that hot air was a low pressure area?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

High or low, there is a lot of hot air in this forum.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Well the pun R12? I really don't think it can replace helium or hydrogen. Yet it is "believed" to get up there some how.
So yes what RF frequency can cause atmospheric heating. Could sound energy do the same?
Even certain intelligently controlled UAP's have been observed causing strange weather effects.
Then lets not forget Mr. LBJ and what he said.
This is an engineering forum, lets figure out the engineering involved.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Everything causes heating...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
including the expansion of gas? ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Entropy always increases so in a way, you'll always end up with more heat as it's the most disorderly form of energy.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (enginesrus)

This is an engineering forum, lets figure out the engineering involved.

So.... what is it that you hope will happen in this thread?

Are you convinced that your 'geoengineering' bullshit links are real, and you want engineers to explain to you how it all works?

Are you expecting some dialogue where we all design a weather control system by committee?

Are you expecting all the engineers on this forum to flail around and fail to explain these weather control phenomena that you believe are true, and then allow you to swoop in and explain everything with your superior knowledge and intellect?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

That link claims to have a 1966 NASA documents as proof but fails to provide the document.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (enginesrus)

Someone did their home work.

I found three ridiculous (and contradictory) assertions in the first 30 seconds of reading.

You do realize that just because someone wrote a paper in 1966 saying that maybe controlling the weather was a good idea, does not mean that A) the belief is widely held across any government or group, B) that weather control is actually possible or C) that anyone took that paper seriously and acted on it.

This is case number 6,000 on this forum of you not understanding engineering or scientific culture. Position papers about theories are written all the time by engineers, scientists, political and military strategists, etc. There is a constant flow of ideas being published, by all type of think tanks and organizations. Many of them espouse ideas which are borderline, or are known to be wacky, or are even deliberately batshit crazy - because in the theoretical scientific community, there is value seen in throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.

The fact that someone once wrote a paper about something means absolutely nothing. There's probably someone somewhere writing an internal position paper about what a great idea it would be to preemptively nuke Moscow. That doesn't mean that any one thinks it's actually a good idea, and it definitely doesn't mean that we're anywhere near executing that plan.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Everything I said in my last post applies in exactly the same ways to this paper from 1996.

Dude you are out of your depth. You don't even know enough to be embarrassed.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I don't know what this paper represents to you. It's a graduate students fan fiction on how to win future wars. It's not an official military policy. It's actually book available on Amazon. Wouldn't they be more secretive if their plan was so nefarious?

https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Tamzy-J-House/dp/12494...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
We always had hurricaines... This could be a portent of things to come. We'll have to wait to find out.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2022/9/28/2...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

For most its a case of not knowing or understanding the technology that exists. In other words thinking science and technology hasn't progressed much past the 1800's.

Tug actually that or something similar to it used to be on the AF website back in the day, it has been off for many years now.

Many combined systems are used to effect the changes desired.

Here is a small part of the system.
https://peakd.com/informationwar/@amit86/series-ge...

How does this keep happening, and is as this moment.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weathe...
It is strange all the bad and strange weather started at the end of 2020, like things shifted to high gear.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
The real problem is that we don't know if this is just a freak anomaly associated with climate or whether if represents some horrific change caused by the increased carbon footprint we are responsible for. As the Florida gov noted a 1 in 500 year event... but if you get several of these in the next decade... there may be something else afoot (with apologies to S.Holmes). We just don't know and are prepared to let things remain as they are, hoping it's the former.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

I don't think it's accurate to say that a cluster of 500 year events represents climate change. It seems like events like this should occur in clusters as the conditions that caused it don't go away overnight. If the solar cycle has any influence on hurricanes maybe we can expect a cluster of these events to persist for the next 11 years.

We also recently had a volcanic eruption that increased upper atmospheric moisture by 5%. We may see a cluster of events until that subsides.

Then again, we haven't seen a pattern of increasing intensity. This last storm was an anomaly when compared to recent history.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I didn't say it did... just that it might indicate there was change in the air...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The currents didn't change, though. The hurricane still landed in the same region they always do.

I wonder who told Don Lemon to emphasize climate change when speaking with the director of NOAA?

https://www.sfgate.com/weather/article/CNN-s-Don-L...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
It looks like it's headed out to sea, to recharge a bit and is then going to take another whack at the states... We'll see what happens Saturday. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
From their job description, "The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is an American scientific and regulatory agency within the United States Department of Commerce that forecasts weather, monitors oceanic and atmospheric conditions...", you'd think they might have a slight interest in climate change. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The director of NOAA got a little annoyed when Lemon tried to make him link the severity of the storm to climate change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
It looks like the water has gone out to sea, to do other damage, but it might return...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9JRJ0K0dcY

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (The director of NOAA got a little annoyed when Lemon tried to make him link the severity of the storm to climate change.)


and for good reason... connecting the two concepts, although scientifically correct, may not be politically correct. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

So Don Lemon is a scientist and the director of NOAA is a political hack?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Didn't say that, Tug... ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

dik, your carbon foot print is more catch wording. Engineering is directing the high pressure areas to where they end up, then they hold them there and enhance them. It is now a fine science.
Keep looking for the active geo engineering.
I guess you missed this.
https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/category/break...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
...another problem to fix. ponder


https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/01/hurricane...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Sorry Tug... I saw photos of the desolation... not at all artificial. Knowing insurance companies, they will be bending over backwards to disallow any claims. I wonder how long people will put up with the governments' failure to protect the long term interests of the people. Off my soap box.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Your link said Ian would cause the financial ruin. However, there is supposed to be support from the government to prevent financial ruin. The government has decided that it will not help those in need, which will cause financial ruin. Therefore, the government is responsible for the financial crisis, not Ian.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
With caveats, Tug... the article said, "Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours."

and not countless... the number of people on earth is finite... just a whole bunch. Even I understood that... The government's responsibility starts with their not addressing the problem, before it ever became a problem (for those that think a problem exists) and taking action to prevent it. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
More data on carbon usage... pipe

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/global-energy-...

The one chart clearly shows who is taking renewable resources to heart...



So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Faulty Climate Data... pipe

https://phys.org/news/2022-09-scientists-urge-publ...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

If you don't like the study, censor it. Typical of those who preach to their own audience.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (dik's link)

Four prominent climate scientists contacted by AFP all said the study—of which they had been unaware—grossly manipulates data, cherry picking some facts and ignoring others that would contradict their discredited assertions.

This is peak level projection right here.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (If you don't like the study, censor it.)


or correct mistakes... it's called peer review, Hokie... pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (Hokie66)

If you don't like the study, censor it.

Yep. That’s the way you do it. On a similar front, here’s the UN Secretary of Global Communications explaining how they are partnering with google to prevent climate change wrongthink from appearing in search results:

https://youtu.be/xa5Vx75wpNU

As she explains, they “own the science”, and no one else has any business appearing in search results but them.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Does anybody remember the heydays of the internet when university libraries (UC Berkeley in particular) digitized their entire out of print catalog and made it available publicly for free?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

"They do not have a section on heat waves"—mentioned only in passing—"where the observed trends are so incredibly obvious", Otto said.Here's a great paper on heatwaves. Alarmists in Europe have a bit to explain (yes I know cities are getting hotter)- yes there is an uptick around the equator, specifically Morocco Tunisia and Yemen. Everywhere else bupkis.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16970-7

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Greg... on a per capita basis... the US still beats out China by a factor of 2... what your charts don't show is that China has 5x the population of the US. See how China's renewable energy is climbing rapidly while the US is relatively flat.

My earlier posting which shows the carbon fuels by the different countries paints a different picture... China is high in Coal next to Australia, South Africa, and South Korea, but relatively lower in the other fossil fuels that produce CO2.



So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

When are you two going to figure out that you've spent months arguing this point because you very clearly think that two different metrics are most important

Greg cares about gross

Dik cares about per capita

Argue per capita measures instead of gross... or something. At least something different.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Per capita is a better measure of the amount of carbon put out by the country. A country with a much larger population is unfairly judged for it's carbon footprint. They often cite China for being so 'bad' but the population they are comparing it to is 5x the population of the US. India's population is much larger, too.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

As has been shown already, per capita emissions correlate perfectly with per capita GDP.



So if you want improve on a per capita basis, you are asking everyone to be a lot poorer. Some climate activists are honest enough to admit this. They say we need to return to a far more humble existence. There is logic in that. Maybe in a few hundred years when all the cheap oil, coal and gas is used up we may be forced back into such an existence whether we like it or not.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

The point I was making is that dik's pretty graph is cherry picking. China uses an awful lot of coal in industrial processes, so looking at its electrical generation green credentials masks the scale of the actual situation.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (GregLockock)

The point I was making is that dik's pretty graph is cherry picking. China uses an awful lot of coal in industrial processes, so looking at its electrical generation green credentials masks the scale of the actual situation.

Oh I get it.

But his counter is going to be that YOUR pretty graphic is cherry picking, because it doesn't account for the the fact that China has a zillion people and thus the per capita level of emissions is lower.

And then you'll just respond that all that matters is how much coal you burn, relative population isn't a factor.

Then it'll start over again for the 17th time. And you'll accuse him of being a communist propagandist because he has a different opinion about what metric matters most. Clearly neither of you is changing the others' mind. Time to move on.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Umm, that was me throwing out the Communist propagandist line. Greg's data shows, the Chinas emissions are getting worse, despite their PR campaign.

I have a question, about 10% of our population is undocumented. They certainly contribute to our CO2 emissions but do they add to our capitas? That is no trivial number.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (Tug)

Greg's data shows, the Chinas emissions are getting worse, despite their PR campaign.

Of course. China's industrialising. Getting richer. Their per capita emissions continue to increase.


RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I'm not sure how the Rhodium Group is calculating things... from their website:



China is at 27% and the US is at 11% total, and the population of China is 4.33 times the American population. This would indicate the carbon footprint compared to the US would be 27/4.3289 = 6.24. The ratio of this is US:China 11/6.24 = 1.76. The US is still outdoing the Chinese on a per capita basis by a factor of 1.7 or 1.8. this is not reflected in the OECD chart above... I do not know how they have modified the numbers.

There's no question that both countries outputs have to be reduced, but the US is still #1 by a bunch and the data from Rhodium does not show the same convergence in their other chart.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (The point I was making is that dik's pretty graph is cherry picking.)


Not cherry picked,but the most recent data I could find, and from these sources:



So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (Dik)

The US is still outdoing the Chinese on a per capita basis by a factor of 1.7 or 1.8. this is not reflected in the OECD chart above... I do not know how they have modified the numbers.

Of course the US has higher per capita emissions than China. It’s a far more developed country. The point is that China’s per capita emissions are catching up fast as they continue to grow their industry and economy. The overall OECD figures include all OECD countries, not the just the US.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
and significantly higher than the other developed countries... check the UK, for example. Maybe they are just more wasteful and don't care. pipe

Take a gander at the chart above for development of other renewable 'green' energy sources... The US has only improved a tad, while 'backwards' China has improved a huge amount, and surpassed the US.



So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

How annoying it is to be right

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
I had that problem when I was young... pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
More interesting stuff on the horizon...pipe

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

What a manipulative graphic. Notice Brazil's line goes up without actually increasing their green energy, their line is pushed up by China's.

China is about to surpass the USA in total CO2 emitted since the industrial revolution.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Not at all manipulative, Tug... you have to look at the image; it's really quite clear and informative. The top of the line is going up, but so is the bottom. The width of their Green colour is slowly increasing, but ever so little. It is not 'pushed up' by China; it's the width of the line that's important, not the location on the chart. The US has changed since 1940, nearly doubling. China's has changed in the same time period, going from very little to a huge amount. It shows that China is taking renewable resources seriously. Their atmospheric pollution requires masks in some locations. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)

Quote (China is about to surpass the USA in total CO2 emitted since the industrial revolution.)


Can you cite a source for this. They are increasing... but they are nowhere near the US and I think it is only 'wishful thinking' that they will surpass. It's used as an excuse for not doing anything. For the sake of the world and humanity, both countries have to drastically improve. pipe

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

Quote (TugBoatEng)

China is about to surpass the USA in total CO2 emitted since the industrial revolution.

This is incorrect. Cumulative values are pretty clear; the US is the cumulative leader, and China is in second place with roughly 50% of the US's cumulative value. China is gaining, but at current rates China's total emissions exceeding the US is still decades away.

Quote (dik)

Can you cite a source for this. They are increasing... but they are nowhere near the US and I think it is only 'wishful thinking' that they will surpass

OK hold the phone

This question makes me wonder if you actually understand the volumes- emissions by China are nearly triple the US. Triple.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Just a thought... it might be too long by then. ponder

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V

(OP)
Thanks Swinny... that's what I thought.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

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