Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
(OP)
Our glorious new ruling party is about to enshrine a 43% reduction in CO2 by 2030. They are also, in a fit of not joined up thinking, intend to increase the population by 4% in the same time frame, by immigration. They'd also like to see more tourists.
I suggest by 2027 the entire target net zero project will have been repeatedly demonstrated to be effectively impossible, and of course meaningless, so it's time to get the beer and popcorn out.
I suggest by 2027 the entire target net zero project will have been repeatedly demonstrated to be effectively impossible, and of course meaningless, so it's time to get the beer and popcorn out.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
but to Greg's point ... politicians will say anything (if they wanted to do something they'd prohibit mining coal in the first place). Sooner or later another politican will propose the opposite.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
They're interested in what's good for themselves and their party, not what's best for the country... sad
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
If you have some new ones, I'd be happy to see them... many people get the carbon footprint wrong. It's the per capita that is important. It shows who is responsible and who has to cut back the most.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Australia’s coal exports however are outsized compared to its population, and a lot of it is feeding the China juggernaut.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
@Lionel- there is no plan. In another thread I estimated that if they want to keep the lights on it needs about $30 Billion of capital spending /every/ year if they persist in non-nuclear folly. That's not completely unfeasible at current interest rates, but at some point the pimply youths we are 'saving' will have to pay it back. Which since they are the ones bleating and moaning is fair enough I suppose.
here's where it comes from
- energy (burning fossil fuels to produce electricity) contributed 33.6 per cent of the total emissions
- stationary energy (including manufacturing, mining, residential and commercial fuel use) 20.4 per cent
- transport 17.6 per cent
- agriculture 14.6 per cent
- fugitive emissions 10.0 per cent
- industrial processes 6.2 per cent
- waste 2.7 per cent
Of course if/when the whole thing falls apart then the first major party to refine the target number to whatever has been achieved will be a shoo-in (certainty) at the 2028 elections.Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Of course there isn't. This is climate politics, not a real plan. It's about slogans, it's about targets, it's about showing "commitment". It's how it's been for many decades. Remember in the early 2000s it was 20-20-20? I.e. 20% reduction below 1990 levels by 2020? Everyone's forgotten about that, and now it's 43% (AUS), 51% (USA), 55% (EU) and 68% (UK) by 2030. In 2030 when those numbers fail to materialise it'll be something different again.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Hokie, For Covid, it doesn't matter... if you take a look at all the countries with over 100M population you have the following:
I don't have to make them look worse; they do it by themselves. The US population isn't published, so it's not on the list. The US population is about 331 million (give or take a couple). They have roughly 1,056,905 deaths which gives them 3193 deaths per million... Brazil is a close second, but the US is still at the top, which says a lot. I'm not being selective... but to prevent a few deaths in a small country from taking the lead... I've limited it to countries in excess of 100 million, for covid, too.
For carbon footprint, there are a lot of middle eastern countries that have a large per capita, but they have small populations... they are, nonetheless, still part of the problem.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Drumpf, Bolsonaro, the Two Borises…
EDIT: Bojo and Vladimir, obviously. The old boozer Yeltsin is long dead.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Greg... it's still pretty ugly. China is at the top, but when you look at the per capita value, they drop a tad:
but on a per capita basis, you have China, Germany, Australia, the US and Japan are pretty close. India is about 1/3.
and if you're looking for per capita production (Australia is not looking so good):
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Just another example of using data to evoke emotion instead of convey information.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
China is at the top with 3.218, the US is next at 2.338, Japan is next at 2.180 and India is near the bottom at 0.672. Time permitting I'll see where gasoline sits...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
We should understand the consequences IF Australia stops exporting coal.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Australia's minerals industry is an important one. It is only natural that Australia supplies the world. The world needs the resources. Australia needs the money from selling them. It is what it is. No pledge to cut 43% is going to change that.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
That might be challenged...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
We’ve noticed a definite pattern with that need.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
https://www.ft.com/content/8ec54d76-7bc4-49cd-a21a...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
The theoretical carbon emissions are calculated by the stoichiometry. You then normalize it per energy output.
Coal has additional nasty side effects, both in the getting of it and the burning.
Methane has the problem when released unburned of being a far more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. That comes from leaks, from extraction and from either end of a cow.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/05/europe/scientis...
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
so, a few things have happened since the 43% legislation started its no doubt long but straightforward path into law- the opposition is reexamining its stance on nuclear power, the PM has stopped mentioning the $275 reduction in power bills (he's got a mandate for that!), and this was published in the Oz
Sustainable path to powering nation is plug-and-play
STEPHEN ANTHONY and ALEX CORAM
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/sustai...
or
https://macroeconomics.com.au/2022/08/04/sustainab...
Given our fellow Australians appear to want to remove carbon dioxide emissions from our national electricity grid, it is strange that there is no rigorous estimate of the economic cost of doing so. Instead we have little more than a policy crayon drawing plan for the path to an emissions-free grid. Truly odd.
...
A rough estimate of the long-run cost to Australia of getting a grid based on solar and wind is that it may be about $700bn.
I'm a bit leery of it, it is promoting a seemingly non existent thermal storage company called Sunlands (15 minutes of googling) as a solution. However $700B is in the ballpark.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Can the OP clarify pls?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
China per capita uses about 40% more coal than the US and less than Australia, and Canada uses less than half the US. Canada uses nearly the same Oil and Gas as the US and China only uses a fraction. India is down near the bottom.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Just one thing - when are you going to grow up?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
I told my mom a couple of decades back, when she asked me the same question, that I'll die a child. I still retain my childhood enthusiasm and curiosity. I hope I never lose it.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
The climate is similar to food plants burning, etc. etc.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
I urge you to publish your independent findings.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
I have to disagree. I thought the cartoon was hilarious. Especially, with the little Greta Thunberg gal saying "how dare they!". That was genuinely good humor.
It also points out the futility of the US and Australia and such trying to get rid of coal when China is ramping up their coal plants faster than we can shut ours down.
I'm 100% for replacing our coal plants with less problematic forms of energy. However, we have to do something about China too. Personally, I think it should be tariffs on any importing of goods created in regions that heavily rely on coal based power.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
There's no doubt that China should be cutting back on their fossil fuels... but the US still has nearly twice the CO2 footprint as China. Little seems to be done to eliminate/reduce this. Just because China is using coal is no reason for the rest of the world to quit CO2 reduction.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
I totally agree. We have to get our own house in order, right? But, we are making lots of progress. You can argue that it's not enough or not happening fast enough. But, we have seen a dramatic reduction in coal power in the US. A big expansion of clean energy. Even a big move towards greater fuel efficiency in our autos.
However, we have to use "economic" means to encourage those nations that want their good sold in the US market to make similar changes.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Then you are easily amused.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Unless you have more recent numbers... from a recent posting (these are 2020.
China's CO2 from Coal is nearly 2x.):
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
I could tell from the production of SUVs, trucks, Hummers and high proformance vehicles... Just smoke and mirrors by marketting.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Rinse and repeat.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Would be useful to have a final column showing the products of Pop X Per capita CO2.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
??? Do you mean the population x the per capita value... easy to do... multiply column 3 by column 7. I have all the data in CSV form. I typed the above data into a spreadsheet before I had the raw data.
Problem is that China has 4.3 times the population of the US and India has 4.25 times the US population. Their total CO2 values are used to point the finger at the huge CO2 footprint they have... not correct based on population. It's also the reason for not doing anything until they reduce their CO2 footprint.
Everyone has to cut down on their carbon footprint... even now, it may be too late.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
https://www.insider.com/taylor-swift-celebrities-r...
...and these are just some of the changes that have to be made. It could get really ugly.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Who should take the "hit" for this CO2 ? the producer or the consumer ?
Who should take the hit for coal exports ?
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
That's easy... the country that mined the coal should be responsible for the carbon footprint caused by the mining and the country that burns it, should be responsible for their use of it.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
Tug's point is quite serious. Who should bear the CO2 'cost' for a manufactured item? Similarly with airlines, should the Maldives be debited for the CO2 from the fuel used to fly tourists in?
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
And, India, too? more people, even will small amounts of CO2, the number gets bigger... The individual carbon footprint has to diminish. Why should an American be allowed to produce 7 times the amount of carbon as an Indian (and screw up the earth 7 times as bad)?
Thanks Greg... I was unaware of her publicity crew? Those actions are wrong... but it pales in comparison to the thousands that travelled to 'attend'. None of this should have happened.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
The source only claims the energy used to extract it from the mines... the destination claims ownership of the carbon produced when they burn it... unless it off gasses, then they take ownership of that... I would suggest that the destination is responsible for the carbon footprint in transportation. It's pretty simple.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
If that's what happened, it's wrong... plain and simple.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
RE: Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler.
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand