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Boom Overture ... new design ...

Boom Overture ... new design ...

Boom Overture ... new design ...

(OP)
from Flight today ...
"Boom Supersonic reveals new design for Overture
19 Jul 2022

Supersonic aircraft developer Boom has introduced a new design for its Overture flagship aircraft, which it hopes to fly for the first time in early 2026."

You gotta love the optimism ! A new design supersonic plane flying within 4 years.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

They didn’t specify how high or far it would fly, or whether propelled or a glider ………

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

You can see the area rule in the fuselage body, now.
The animation seems to be the brainchild of a graphic artist, not an aero engineer.
That wing will cost 100 million dollars to make.
The engine nacelles don't look very realistic. Hard to pin down exactly what looks odd but there doesn't seem to be any bypass. How long has it been since a commercial jet engine was put into service with ZERO jet bypass? 1950's? The Concorde? (maybe I just answered my own question).

Watch the video and take note of the inset cabin windows. That's not realistic. Even subsonic airliners keep the windows flush to the skin.


RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

(OP)
can you link to the video ?

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

More like a slightly sculptured Concorde to me.

65 to 80 passengers?? Really?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

3 seats across, I bet.

Like the little Embraer jets.

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

WindWright,

Is bypass meaningful on something that cruises at supersonic speed? They put turbofans on jet fighters, but jet fighters briefly dash supersonic. They cruise subsonic.

--
JHG

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

Hi Drawoh,
Maybe there was a time that I knew the answer to that, but I don't any more. I was hoping somebody would pipe up to my leading question...

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

Greg,

The noise signature of the inlet is influenced by the shock waves formed off the cowl at design speed. The paper describes an inlet design with a lowered cowl lip angle, which is accomplished by not focusing the compression shock waves to a single point at the cowl lip at design speed. The design should lower shock (boom) signatures off the engine cowling, but they spend a lot of time focusing on the distortion (non-uniformity of total pressure) of the incoming air at the first compressor stage, which is worse than it would be for a shockier engine cowl with more uniform/focused compression.

The bypass flow is intended to get compressed by a fan and shoved overboard for more thrust (or fed to areas needing cooling, then shoved overbaord). The amount of bypass vs. core jet thrust decreases as you go above Mach 1, I can recall running the calcs in Aerothermodynamics class...but it's been a few years. The F22 engine (P&W F119) uses a bypass ratio that is pretty low (0.3) compared to airliners (climbing every day, typically well over 7*), but has the ability to push the fighter along at Mach 1.8 without using afterburning.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bypass_ratio#/media/...

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

American Airlines is putting 'skin-in-the-game' for the Boom Overture...

Boom boosted by American’s 20-unit Overture order
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/boom-boosted...

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

Reminds me of the Concorde whereby several airlines purchased delivery options just in case so as not to be left behind, but got cold feet at the end. BOAC and Air France had a gun to their heads so couldn't back out.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

Which just reminded me...

An old service engineer for CONVAIR had unique names and memes for most of the airlines in existence in the 1970s. The ones I sorta remember....

Lufthansa [loosely translates to] = 'Left hanging'
Air France = Air Chance
BOAC = Better on a Camel
Aeroflop
United Scarelines
In United We'll Fly in Delta we'll Fall
TWA = Truly Worst Airlines
Brannif = BrandX
SAS = Scandinavian Alcoholics System
JAL = Joy and Luck
PSA = Pretty Small Airlines
Beastern Airlines
Northworst Airlines
Southworst Airlines

I'd better stop while I'm ahead...

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

(OP)
at least QANTAS didn't make that list !

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

Maybe the combined demands of (a) flying supersonic and (b) using vegetable oil fuel, and being unable to compromise on either, is what doomed the Boom.

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

I like how P&W said a supersonic engine was "tangental". Everything I'm working on coming down the pipeline in 5-10 years is electric.

Is it even remotely feasible for even a fairly well funded start up to develop a such a monster on their own? I feel like that might be even harder than SpaceX developing the Raptors. Has CFD gotten good enough?
I think I have every turbine engine design book published, and burner design seems like that's just black magic the big guys keep close.






RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

I think it could be possible for a small-ish company to take an older low-bypass engine and modify it for low supersonic use; more effort is required on inlet and cowling than the internal bits. Dunno how difficult it would be to get it to run efficiently and durably with biofuel, different problem.

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

Kinda what I was thinking. Their concept does look like a B58 with J79's.
I mean I know where a J79 cutaway is. Could take a scanner over there, figure out some COTS part numbers and get pretty close.

Biofuel... when I was at University one of my capstone classes, and student worker job was working on a DARPA Algae Jet A project. It was a really good match to JetA but we joked, the first ounce was $2 million. I was pretty proud of that. Some of the stuff I designed is in the Boeing Future of Flight museum at Paine field. I thought Algae was gonna be it... but the infrastructure to do it was cost prohibitive. If I could have a nuclear plant next to it to provide power we'd be in business. But at that point... Electric Jets are coming.

I should go see if I can find the old cost projections and see if it's still unfeasible with Jet A being over $6/gal. LOL!

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

(OP)
I don't see a rebuild on an old jet getting the fuel efficiency that these guys want, and from "rubbish" fuel too.

electric planes may be coming, but battery technology has to improve a lot before it's really practical.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

I think electric is the future but batteries are not. By the time we get batteries with energy densities up there next to JetA they're gonna be a special dangerous. Not that a full tank of JetA isn't a spectacular fire, but a whole box full of e- getting loose in a hurry will probably be seen from space...during the day.

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

(OP)
then what fuel source ? generators run by an APU ? has disadvantages, but would be run at the optimal design point.

airships ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: Boom Overture ... new design ...

Boom, and many other start-ups, have obviously not understood an underlying aviation truism regarding proof-of-concept... which even a dummy like me has noted...

Better-than is the enemy of good-enough. FLY FIRST... EVOLVE LATER.

I am sure there are commercial evolutions of the military F404 that has advanced far-enough to be 'good-enough'... for now.

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

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