Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
(OP)
For earlier thread, see
thread1618-496010: Things are Starting to Warm Up.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
thread1618-496010: Things are Starting to Warm Up.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://theconversation.com/climate-change-deniers...
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM9-Q8xnrEU
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/06/colorado-...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11011193/...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Having a hard time following you. Who is/are “you” in that post?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Keep the faith dik
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
The pictures I see appear to be houses built on a flood zone beside the river. I'm not sure what the message should be, but I'm not going right to climate change. It appears to be stupidity more than anything.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Although only deniers call it a ‘debate’.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/1...
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/longform/2022/7...
and
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-wors...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Dismal River is an apt name for a stream that flows through that dismal part of Appalachia. Ever seen the movie ‘Deliverance’? Similar sort of country and people.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
One end of the country has had a half dozen 1% storm events in the past 30 years, and the other end is enduring a 0.1% drought.
Ask highway maintenance engineers if they've noticed weather patterns changing.
My glass has a v/c ratio of 0.5
Maybe the tyranny of Murphy is the penalty for hubris. - http://xkcd.com/319/
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That’s your story and you’re sticking to it.
If you’re not scared you’re not paying attention (or have your head buried in the sand. Possibly the magical energy storing kind).
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Maybe we are responsible, maybe it's primarily a natural process.
Maybe we can reverse it, maybe we can't (that we've initiated some natural process, the "tipping point", and we're already doomed).
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
The new religion is Denialism
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
when did questioning "it's obvious ..." become denialism ?
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Once someone calls themselves a "climate scientist" they can no longer be trusted. Their career and livelihood is solely based on how much shock and fear they drum up. Any climate scientist that concludes everything is fine or this is normal is essentially saying their career was superfluous.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/...
Lorenz' butterfly, anyone?
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
In one way denial is a natural response to problems that have a massive scale. Our brains prefer to switch off in the face of seemingly overwhelming situations. We do the same with (for just a few examples) the opioid epidemic, the toxic legacy of slavery, and violence against women.
That becomes aggravated in a milieu that is saturated in the mythology of self-determination, authority over nature, and exceptionalism (yes I’m talking about you, Yanks).
When you live in Disneyland, expect Mickey Mouse solutions.
I suppose I have now set the cat among the pigeons here.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.nersc.gov/news-publications/nersc-news...
The warming is caused by our energy consumption, not our CO2 emissions. As a result, renewables won't improve the situation.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
You’re not even cherry picking, you’re totally making stuff up.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.asp...
This is the one about energy consumption causing warming.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Maybe warming is caused by a combination of several issues?
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
But these are extremely important issues to consider. It's worse than small or no effect, though. The amount of energy we release to go renewable is not going to be reversible if we find there effective reduction in heat output.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I consider myself to be 95 percentile in literacy among engineers but I can’t make sense of this, technically or otherwise.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Is that clear enough for you?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Your nonsensical conclusion is now more understandable.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11016143/...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Your twisty words again, not mine.
What keeps it in tip top shape is not over exerting it chasing diversions and arguing imaginary points with committed deniers. I recommend it to everyone.
Think I’ll go for a lie down, then afterward attempt to break my own Rubik’s cube world record. Tomorrow I’ll finish my paper on string theory.
Cheers
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Might you work on your Unified Field Theory paper instead? That might be more useful
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Have you seen the light? Good to see that you agree with Senator Manchin.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/15/how-the-u...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Not yet... still gloom at the end of the tunnel... I'm waiting for that freight train, any time now...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11016869/...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Anyways wildfire has always been a subject in Mediterranean climates, we share the same here in California.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/fire/indigenous-fire-...
Also, dik, the stoner does not approve of your source.
Brim, my accidental link did have a link to the study.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/...
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3559...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Maybe the heat dries stuff out so it burns easier?
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://theconversation.com/australians-are-instal...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
All this news isn’t real, it’s just you and your downer attitude, cherry picking trivial climate events from obscure conspiracist news outlets like the NY Times and the BBC. You must remember that at this moment, over 99% of the land surface is NOT burning up and NOT under water. Wouldn’t you agree 99% is a very good score? Focus on the positive!
If you could just adopt a sunnier disposition all these problems would evaporate. (Sorry if I hurt Lake Mead’s feelings there with those last words.)
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Dik,
Your heart and brain are in the right place, but seriously, you need to raise your sarcasm detection game!
Cheers
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Try to read more carefully, was I talking to you about sarcasm?
You may think you are doing sarcasm, but it comes off as a desperate compulsion to rebut any and all news presented here by others that conflicts with your rigid worldview, by any tactic necessary. Stuff that you might get away with in competitive debating or interweb fora but not in the realm of scientific discussion.
I know this because (among my many other talents) I am a past master at applied sarcasm. You would not believe the fraction of my mental energy that i have to devote to self-monitoring for sarcasm at the office, toward people who really really need to hear it.
But something I’ve discovered is that the folks who need sarcasm the most are the ones least likely to register it. A great pity that!
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Crock, of course, since the Sahara is nearly devoid of trees; some claim that's because people burned all the trees to do farming.
Try to start a fire without a heat source.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Nowhere on Earth is the atmosphere hot enough to "start a fire". And it still won't be after climate change, either.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
We’ve advanced the discussion here.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Blaming fires on 1 degree of temperature rise is silly. That is all.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
the hotter the temperature, the less likely wood retains any moisture that might have slowed down ignition/combustion. Properly hydrated plants resist burning; dry wood burns quite well..
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Where's your data? US Forest Service says otherwise 85% caused by humans
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
High temperature can also increase the moisture content of the air. Most rain forests exist in the tropics. It's a bit of a reach to say higher temperatures will cause aridification.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
A figure from a very old TV doc has stuck with me: a 1 deg C rise in mean temperature in a particular agricultural region in E N America increased (statistically) the growing season from 90 to 105 days. I’d say that’s a very big impact. In my lifetime I’ve observed the frost-free season increase dramatically. When I was a kid there would be frost in May and September, with the odd exception neither has happened in 30 years. I’ve several times seen April and October be frost-free. Frost is the kind of thing even a small child recognizes, yet adults argue about it.
1 degree also increases the moisture carrying capacity of air significantly, contributing to more intense tropical storms.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
And it is safer to be thrown from the vehicle in a collision than to be restrained by a seatbelt.
It took 30 years of campaigns, data collection, and finally laws to overcome that no brain behaviour, so what will it take to change fossil fuel behaviours when vehicles are a de facto pillar of our belief system?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/15/weather/2050-uk...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Please explain why you think the article from Australia about all the problems with rooftop solar maintenance is 'good news'. Or was that some sort of sarcasm, like brimstoner's? Maybe you just don't read your own links.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Has this thread reached peak stupidity yet? No, I know it'll get worse.
2050 2022 delta
30 19 11
38 27 11
32 26 6
38 32 6
39 37 2
43 34 9
40 40 0
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
wot, you get lipstick on yourself ?
the whole point to this argument (it gave up being a debate a long time ago) is that the climate is changing and we are burning FFs. Some people link the two either because it's obvious or because it suits their personal outlook or because they have some data supporting this linkage. Others don't link them because it is not obvious or because it suits their personal outlook or because they have some data refuting the linkage. And then there's politics and money.
The issue is that to stop burning FFs will impose an unacceptable cost on our civilisation (my money is still on civil unrest will be the ultimate downfall of our civilisation, and will usher in a new dark age, but hopefully not in the next 30 years) and may not fix the problem either. We can't even agree on relatively modest (but still painful) measures like a moratorium on mining and burning coal. But we can have trading schemes (or scams) such that some people get rich and the expense of others with no real change to anything and we keep playing the game.
sigh ...
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11022169/...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Carry on helping mankind with whataboutery and conspiracy politics.
I have full awareness and self-awareness. You don’t have a clue. You have to open your ears before having any possibility of opening your mind.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That should the last word. I know I’m done with this cluster of a thread.
p.s., FFs is the appropriate term for this
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Sums it up.
Have a good life brimstone.
Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62196045
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/1...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Just one small data point.
I wouldn’t worry too much.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
It's been a popular sport to try and second guess the authorities on what exactly the causes of death are. Link
If one dies from hypoxia, due to suffocation, due to pneumonia, due to covid; some would say to put this in one of the three categories that are not covid.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I know of someone run over by a car while riding a bicycle whos cause of death was covid and another who just died and the doctor wanted to put covid on the death certificate but the family refused to allow it. Around here they got paid extra for every covid case.
That enough talk of Covid in a climate change forum.
Yes, everyone cries about how we have to end CO2 emissions, but very little is spoken about how difficult and imposing it will be to actually stop. Not just posture about doing good, but actually stopping. Fossil fuel usage is an incredible amount of energy that wind and solar don't have a hope in hell of replacing. TBE is correct, we'll only get there if we figure out how to conserve or massively cut our energy usage.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Nicely cherry picked data. The mass media will be proud of you.
Here's a longer term picture of real data from the UK Met Office, showing that recent rates of change are not unusual, at least in the UK
https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/u...
and here's a reconstruction of temperatures since the last ice age from NASA , unfortunately it doesn't use the same proxies throughout leading to the usual cut and paste error. We are a tiny bit warmer than 7000 years ago.
https://twitter.com/nasaclimate/status/12755599817...
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
once.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That being said.....I kind of wince at the proof that gets thrown out there. To say we are having these all time records.....when we don't have a lot of temperature data prior to just a few hundred years ago isn't good. At lets not pull any punches here: the wrong predictions of some people on my side of the aisle undermines our credibility. I remember back in the 80's/90's (for example) there was this magazine cover that showed NYC under water by this point due to global warming. (Remember the movie The Day After Tomorrow?) In more recent years I remember some guy on Bill Maher's show talking about "where will we get another Iowa?" [when the mid-west is 150oF at some point in the future; the numerous problems with that statement being quite obvious].)
So yeah, I think it's enough to say we should be addressing this.....but I would put it quite simply: if one-side is wrong, so what? We get a cleaner environment with (possibly) cheaper sources of energy. If the other side is wrong....we got problems.
Anyway....my 2 cents.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
It's not just a matter of finding alternate sources, it's a matter of cutting back. That includes transportation, vacation travel, development of high speed trains, building things with a lifetime (no more disposable fridges, etc.) and huge social changes. I don't know if we're up to it or if this can be done in time.
Covid gave the world and excellent opportunity to work as a 'united world'... see how far that got.
Off my apple box...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.iea.org/reports/key-world-energy-stati...
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Vogelsberger is basically assuming, then, that every climate scientist is incorrect and incompetent, and ignoring the energy balance equation, and only he is smart enough to do it correctly. And if his calculation is that this is where we're supposed to be based on enthaply, then he's still wrong, because most models had underestimated the amount of heat sunk by the oceans, so the only reason we're only +1°C is because the oceans sucked up way more heat that previously assumed possible, so the amount of heat that's out of balance is much more than what the temperature anomaly indicates.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That bell curve is one thing, but we're constantly told that climate change increases the amount of extremes at both end, hot AND COLD. This is the reason given for snow storms, cold winters, heavy rains, etc. It ALL the result of climate change.
Yet the bell curve indicates a simple reduction in the amount of cold. So which is it? Is it getting hotter with a corresponding reduction in cold? Or is there are gain at both ends, with more hot AND more cold?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I don't think they even understand the basic mechanisms. Evaporation increases the specific heat of the atmosphere which does slow warming. Maybe the heat isn't being sunk by the ocean at all. Has the specific heat of our atmosphere increased as a result of global warming? What is the quantity of energy stored in our atmosphere? Why are these basic thermodynamics questions never asked?
What types of degrees allow one to call themselves a "climate scientist"? Is there even a definition of a "climate scientist"?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
No, that's because the measure of heat IS the temperature; there is no surrogate for heat in units of megajoules that can be measured. Temperature rise IS the indication of heat rise; even Fourier's Law is written that way.
The fact that you ignore that and attack scientists belies any serious point you could possibly make.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
No, heat can't be measured directly but heat is absolutely not temperature. However, knowing the composition of the atmosphere, water content being the most variable component hence the psychrometer, one can make a very reasonable estimation of the "heat".
I'm not attacking scientists. I don't think climatologists are scientists. I'm attacking climatologists. We have an entire segment dedicated not to understanding the mechanisms of climate change but instead trying to predict how bad it could be. The more dire the prediction the higher their paycheck. Climate scientists absolutely need to be scrutinized at every level. They are a conflict of interest.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/19/australia...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
civil unrest would be the downfall of our civilsation. it'll fall as a result of the endless vitriol spewed over this climate change "issue".
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/atlantic-ocean-pr...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I suspect millions of people starving and dying of thirst might have a bit of an impact, too. Whatcha think?
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Maybe they cannot keep up with the changes? or maybe recording the changes may be very difficult? I'm surprised that there is not a computer model of this in somebody's basement...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
How about this source - The Artifical Production of Carbon Dioxide, by G.S. Callendar, 1938. Surely "big media" wasn't already influencing scientists almost a hundred years ago? Yes, numbers/calculations vary due to the field in its infancy, but the point remains that the base concept (humans are creating massive amounts of CO2 -> this mostly ends up in the atmosphere -> this has an impact on temperature) was well established even by 1938. Everything since has been trying to figure out precisely HOW BAD things will get and increasing confidence intervals. Hell, simple experiments with glass jars (exactly like it was done in the mid 1800s) will show that CO2 captures more heat than air, nitrogen, or oxygen. Yet otherwise smart people on this site continue to say that even the greenhouse effect itself isn't real.
Excerpt from 1938:
Letter to the President by Office of Science & Technology in 1977 (shocker, the Chief of Staff said that "economic impacts" due to policy change would be too severe":
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
that's what I envisioned with "social unset". now I reckon we won't make it that far ...
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
The key word is climate change... some places will get warmer, some will get colder. The net result is that the earth is warming and overall the temperature is going up, with unpredictable results... Hold on to your hat...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Not a global warming thing, so just ignore it; everything is as it should be
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Apparently the Romans when they were here, had vineyards as far north as York. Vineyards only in South of England now.(They left in AD410).
Went rabbitting yesterday, even they were staying underground!
Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/19/greenland-...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Of course, this is all natural and no human was involved in its creation, so revel in it
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So which is it? Are some places getting warmer and some getting colder (i.e. the bell curve is widening), or is the bell curve shifting in the warming direction, as per RVAMeche's chart:
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RVAMeche's graph does not show an increase in places getting colder. The graph shows a reduction at the cold end. Is the graph wrong?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Precisely. We've been here before. It was called the Holocene Optimum.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Optimum? If we reach that we can only have decline afterwards. We should do our best to avoid this optimum.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
His graph is of average temperatures over the globe, so no extreme temperatures are shown. Nevertheless, the distribution is broadening, so there are positions whose temperature differences are increasing, which implies a possibly greater heat flow between any given two points, which could imply more extreme highs or lows.
However, EPA reports fewer cold temperature extremes, relatively https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/weather-cli....
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Yes we see this a lot in Australia. We were told for a long time the models are predicting hotter drier conditions. The local climate scientists told us we were entering permanent drought and desertification was underway on Australia's east coast. Then we get a run of cold wet conditions and they claim it's what the climate science has predicted all along.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
It can be either... but the net result is that things will get warmer globally.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
dik said some places will get colder (a common claim). That statement is inconsistent with the graph. The graph does not show any increase in places getting colder.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That took a little time... this time it will likely occur in our lifetime. Climate change will occur in decades, rather than millinnia.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I'll admit that there is an extreme variation but not in the way climate scientists would care to acknowledge.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Take a gander at AMOC... it is possible that Europe may become colder. We don't know where the pendulum will swing...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
You were very certain a few posts ago.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Given the presumption that significantly hotter temperatures are occurring as indicated by historic heatwaves in places like England, but only an average temperature anomaly of 2 degrees, then there must either be a lot of places with somewhat colder temperatures, or places with commensurately colder temperatures, ala "Polar Vortex" conditions.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
greenhouses are not a good analogy for the atmosphere.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I'm convinced that we have caused global changes, but I don't know what the end result will be. I've very concerned that they may be catastrophic, not for my sake (I'm nearly out of here), but for my children, grandkids and great-grandkids as well as humanity. I envision huge changes in lifestyle caused by transportation issues, food production, geo-political matters, etc. Little real effort seems to be made to prevent, or even slow it down. Even more concerning, because it can be a huge change, the 'little' changes have become political. Even the courts are acting to prevent implimentation of needed actions. It does not look good.
As one of the posters noted, I think IRS, that to err on the safe side is still good, but to ignore may be 'not so good'. I'm thinking it could be as bad as the next mass extinction. I have no idea of how this stops, it it ever gets going. One of my few serious moments...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
We really should cease labeling (and thereby dismissing) significant data as ‘anecdotes’. Data (mountains of it) are the raw material for the model. The model in turn predicts future direction, and the scientists have been consistently conservative with that - events have outpaced their warnings. The mechanisms and tipping points should be understandable to anyone with technical training (I hesitate to describe university as ‘higher education’ when it is essentially job training, but I digress).
Anyone disputing that may have trust and comprehension issues, very possibly assisted by the cyclone of excrement that is politics, media, and corporate interests, multiplied and accelerated by The Algorithm.
Some here will protest that we are smarter than that, are objective, and have complete independence of thought, blah blah blah, but I’m sorry, we all have a lot less agency than we are told and want to be told. Does anyone ever notice the root message advertisers relentlessly beat into our heads? (Hint: gambling companies are the worst offenders.)
Expecting flack incoming in 3, 2, 1 … because I know this flies in the face of centuries of American self-mythologizing and the engineer’s ‘I can fix this’ mindset.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
It kinda is, if you consider the upper atmosphere as being the glazing for a greenhouse and the earth as being the space within.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
It's not a zero sum... there will/are places that are experiencing colder weather, but the net result is +ve temperatures. One of the problems is the arctic is heating fastest of any place on earth and will release methane from the frozen permafrost. Methane is far worse than CO2. I've seen clips of where they have released methane from bubbles frozen in ice and ignited them.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
what in the real world models the opening of the glass panes to let moist air out and dry air in ?
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
We agree that the future is very uncertain. The precautionary approach is all well and good, until you impoverish yourself for potential fears.
How much life insurance to you have ? How much health care ? These are things that will almost certainly be needed during your life (or to help your loved ones immediately afterwards). You've made a decision to spend so much on these certain expenses and use the rest of living today (and maybe tomorrow).
I agree that humans are affecting the environment in many ways. Who's to say that CO2 is the critical interference ? Who's to say that if we "fix" this CO2 problem that something else won't bite us ?
I agree that we should be sensitive to the impact we're having on the environment.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
By impoverishing myself, you are referring to doing things properly 'to leave no trace'. Indiginous thought is 'that you don't own the earth, but you borrow it from your grandkids'. We've even 'cluttered' space. My potential concerns are a lot worse than your's are. I hope you are correct, but have a sinking feeling that you are gravely in error. I can envision things getting far worse. We'll have to wait and see how this plays out, and I hope you can tell me, 'I told you so!'.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
There's lots of 'good' data... the 'good' anecdotes simply reflect the results of it and indicate the data is likely correct.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
There's two aspects
> Pareto analysis -- there are a number of other heat trapping mechanisms that will likely have to be dealt with
> Unintended consequences -- as with fossil fuels; great efficiency, but tons of CO2, and many of the "green energy" solutions require their own energy/environmental costs as well as creation of waste that's environmentally unfriendly.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
IRS, we have to be careful as not to create other more damaging 'dragons'... I don't have an answer for it, I think I'm aware of some of the problems, but not all of them.
Snakeoil salesmen, and entrepreneurs will be coming out of the woodwork, too.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
really ?? the precautionary approach to this (AFAIUI) is "stop burning FFs today" ... scarcely in "big oil"'s interest.
Though, of course, if they are smart then they'd see themselves in the energy business and so motivated to develop the next energy source.
Don't want to be the best buggy whip manufacturer as cars are entering the market.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
there are literally a million ways "nature" can get rid of us.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
you could say that this is the problem, but who are you going to cull ?
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
The Two Wolves
An old Cherokee grandfather is teaching his grandson about life.
“A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.
“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.”
He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Wasn't "focused" per se, just picking low lying subject. But, sure, there are tons of ways; even a non global fire/dust creating asteroid could kill upwards of 80% of humanity just from big enough tsunamis. The microplastics generated from our waste that are now endemic in the environment might prove to be life-limiting to humans, or some nasty bug might develop that feeds exclusively on them and then infect us with something nasty.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
and the good news is that we may have unleashed them by our actions. We have to take ownership of that!
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I suspect there will be big changes in transportation in the future, both with automobiles, and aircraft.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Shell isn't in the petrol business, it's in the energy business. Thus as the petrol based business looks to have run it's course, (not saying it has) then transition to the next energy business. Whilst these new energy businesses are in their infancy, and petrol hasn't died out, it is still time to look to the future.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Read between the lines: ‘precautionary’ is a euphemism for ‘foot dragging’.
But in the Big Oil example it is a lot worse than foot dragging, it is lobbying, disinformation, and covering up science that might hurt profits or threaten their future. Exxon scientists knew about global warming decades ago and informed their overlords, who started looking for ways they could leverage it to their business advantage.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Some publics have more power than others: if Shell operated in N America the way they do in Nigeria it would be shut down in a week.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Same could be said about the coal industry...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"precautionary" has been widely used here are "take immediate steps now, in case (as a precaution) the worst starts to happen"
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
maybe in December...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That view is no longer tenable. If the science isn’t in by now it will never be in.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Your definition of the 'precautionary principle' is just that, yours. rb1957 has given the widely accepted definition. If you want to denigrate Big Oil, fine, but you need a better label.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Can we move on now?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
often given as the accepted definition, I think brims is suggesting that it is
oftenoccasionally used for something different.So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
But I acknowledge my brain fart in registering cautionary when it read precautionary.
And yes I know what precautionary principle means.
Can you ever forgive or do you insist on making this your reason for living today?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
You say "think of the children" like it’s a bad thing.
What should we be thinking of instead?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Should I follow the precautionary principle by reducing my speed, or blame it on gremlins and carry on like nothing bad could happen?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
People aren't saying to gradually reduce speed. They're saying to slam on the brakes. Pretty good way to cause a highway pile up.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I agree completely. We have burned a lot of fossil fuels, and there is a corresponding increase in atmospheric CO2. Barring some other explanation the extra CO2 is due to human emissions. There is a corresponding net increase in temperature of about 1 degree.
All that being said, it is unscientific to attribute cold weather to global warming and to pretend that the theory predicts an increase in cold weather too. Climate alarmists predicting hot weather and then pointing to a snow storm and saying "See! What did we tell you!" is why there is so much skepticism towards climate alarm.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That's almost as silly as doing nothing...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
See the attached...
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2865/a-degree-of-con...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://nypost.com/2022/07/20/biden-spews-co2-on-t...
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Yes I know the semantic games. It's been going going on since the 1980s. "Greenhouse effect" vs. "global warming" vs. "climate change". Not to mention all those people who feel that more exciting phrases like "Climate Crisis" and "Global heating" are the more appropriate terminology:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/1...
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Things are better in 2022 than what they said they'd be. Hence this new strategy of reframing statistically normal weather events as proof of climate disaster. Floods in 1900, 1910, 1940, 1950, 1980, 1990: NORMAL. The same size flood today: CLIMATE CHANGE.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
My mistake for insufficiently dumbing it down.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
The cost of stopping burning FFs is enormous ... so much so that we don't mention it, although it is the appropriate precautionary measure if burning FFs is (maybe) going to cause the destruction of our environment. And some say that even this isn't enough.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Depending on the people, you may have to, and even slow down your typing so they can catch up.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
In what manner?
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Climate alarmism has a long history of issuing exaggerated predictions. Reality generally fails to match their doom and gloom forecasts.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Examples please.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Whose reality? Yours? Rupert Murdoch’s? Real reality?
We are seeing ‘doom and gloom’ playing out in real time. It’s impossible to dress up IPCC projections and current events in any way resembling ’nice’ or ‘cheerful’. Are you saying those dedicated folks are merely suffering from bad attitudes or defective personalities, and that that is the real problem here?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Anyone recall a number of years back when the earth quit warming for a bit. There were lots of claims and explanations about how you can't use short term measurement trends as an indication of climate change slowing down. But, a few days of hot weather sure leads to a huge amount of climate change accelerating claims.
Shell is in the business of making money for the stock holders, not the energy business. They know damn well that green energy doesn't make as much money. It's sad that people here can't understand that. It's the bane of allowing publicly traded companies to have free range.
Now, if only the doom and gloom claims about running out of oil by now had actually come true.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
In all seriousness, has anyone ever observed that you are very easily distracted?
I don’t recommend you embark on a career in failure analysis; I expect something like ‘faulty politics’ would be your go-to root cause.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Thinking up analogies for inexperienced engineers to understand loading scenarios and failure processes is a thing I regularly do.
Part of the teaching process involves helping them unlearn half understood technical concepts.
K.I.S.S. almost never fails, in every sphere of activity. Maybe you have heard of it?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So in conclusion, we are not seeing a planet on fire, just an excess of negativity. Attitude adjustment will fix any problem.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I can’t go any slower or I’ll stop!
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
really ? you don't think Tom's statement is valid, without examples ? Any response will be met with "cherry-picking" 'cause no list will be complete.
Both sides of the argument are replete with examples of exaggeration.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
There’s no debate, there’s no symmetry and there’s no equivalence.
Only one side practices denialism, has no supporting science, is corporate funded, and sponsors lawmakers. None of this is helped by brain dead corporate controlled MSM and the chaos and discord generating Algorithm.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statement...
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
yeah, and the other side is as pure as eh driven snow, seeking only pure unadulterated knowledge.
as bill cosby would've said (in his stand up comic days) ... "rightttt".
you can have your truth, and you are welcome to it.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Appreciate your science and fact based response; it was informative. But are you able to refute any part of my statement while staying within the bounds of basic logical argument?
Can you name any federal or state elected officials who are sponsored by corporate climate fearmongers? Didn’t think so.
Meanwhile in Virginia, Sen. Manchin (DINO) is wielding an obscene amount of power over the entire nation.
(Bill Cosby stopped being funny some time ago, for reasons that are way off topic.)
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-commi...
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
you win, I defer to your superior skills.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
And this money is not dark.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
It’s not about me. I want truth to be the winner.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That's a totally different problem and a symptom of a failed...
No one is winning... we might all be losers. Time will tell.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/07/21/105629...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"Recent satellite images from NASA show the dramatic water loss that has occurred over the last 22 years at drought-stricken Lake Mead, the nation’s largest reservoir and a lifeline for California, neighboring states and Mexico.
The images show how a deep blue strand of water snaking through the Nevada desert in August 2000 has drastically receded and narrowed amid the parched landscape by July of this year. Lake Mead and much of the Colorado River Basin are in the midst of a 22-year drought.
Water levels at Lake Mead — formed by the Hoover Dam — are at their lowest levels since 1937, when the reservoir was still being filled. As of July 18, the lake was at 27% capacity, according to the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation.
The lingering drought has brought with it a reduced snowpack, massive dust storms, persistent wildfires and vegetation that requires more water just to stay alive. The effects of the drought are exacerbated by climate change and accelerated carbon emissions, which in turn makes it more difficult for reservoirs to recharge, according to Michael Cohen of the Pacific Institute.
The way people live in the West is now being threatened, he said.
“Our way of life is already impacted,” Cohen said. “You can certainly argue that people’s lives are changing right now, because of climate change. And a lot of climate change just gets manifested in water, which means hotter, drier, less water available.”
Severe water restrictions are in place across the Western states as reservoirs and other sources of water dwindle. Bureau of Reclamation Commissioner Camille Calimlim Touton said during a Senate hearing in Washington last month that larger reductions in water usage are needed to maintain reservoirs like Lake Mead and Lake Powell.
“A warmer, drier West is what we are seeing today,” Touton told the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. “And the challenges we are seeing today are unlike anything we have seen in our history.”
Cohen said agencies that regulate water use and irrigation are grappling now with the effects of climate change. He says those agencies need to reach out to state lawmakers and federal counterparts to push for more action on carbon emissions and climate change, because reservoirs will not be able to recharge.
“Because without that, we’re not going to catch up. What people associate with life in the West, it’s just gonna go away,” Cohen said.
Lake Mead serves approximately 25 million people in the West, including California, Arizona, Nevada, tribal lands and northern Mexico. Approximately 74% of nine Western states are experiencing some form of drought, with 35% seeing “extreme drought,” according to the U.S. Drought Monitor.
Over the last several months, the lake’s receding shoreline has revealed sunken boats and human remains, including a probable homicide victim.
Water levels at Lake Mead have precipitously dropped from 1,204 feet in June 2020 to 1,043 feet in June 2022, according to federal data. The last time the reservoir approached full capacity was in the summer of 1983 and 1999, nearing 1,220 feet.
Current projections from the Bureau of Reclamation shows that next summer could see a 20-foot reduction in water at Lake Mead.
A white band of dried rock surrounds the lake like a bathtub ring and tells a story of where the water levels once reached. The exposed lake bed reveals a sweeping pattern of cracked mud baking in the sun, mineralized areas of the shore that were once underwater, now littered with dead fish.
The latest satellite images confirm the alarms climate scientists have sounded about climate change and overuse of the Colorado River, which feeds into Lake Mead. The current situation may present one of the worst droughts in the West in the last 1,200 years, according to climate data."
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Interesting phrasing there. Even water seems drier than it used to be.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
How many examples do you want?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
In places, there is a lot more of it caused by the heating of the oceans... this causes more intense storms, etc. Unfortunately, the water doesn't always fall in the right spot. Calif can use it, and New York doesn't need it.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Just bad English... I got the drift of the message...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
If you think you have too many examples then maybe we’ll have to negotiate. The only stipulation is that they be fact based.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
How many examples do you want? I am reluctant to provide you any examples when you are setting things up to move the goalposts. As rb1957 notes Any response will be met with "cheery-picking" 'cause no list will be complete.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"SHANGHAI, July 21 (Reuters) - China built nearly 31 gigawatts (GW) of new solar power capacity from January to June, up 137% from a year earlier, with full-year installations on course to hit a record high, an industry group said on Thursday.
Total solar power capacity now stands at 340 GW, up 25.8% compared to last year, Wang Bohua, the honorary chairman of the China Photovoltaic Industry Association, said in a presentation."
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Their total coal capacity is 1100 GW, with another 250 GW in the pipeline.
Their overall energy mix:
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
energycarbon footprint, on a per capita basis is less than half the US.So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
They more than make up for that with their population size. In terms of climate change, it's the TOTAL emissions that count.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-faile...
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
We went through 10 years of that bulsh!t exercise up here with PM Harper, who doubled down on filthy Tar Sands bitumen production. 10 years of effectively going backward and breaking every international commitment.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So I thought I would humour you by following the link, eventually to the CEI home page where I read 'Our Mission is to Reform America's Unaccountable Regulatory State'. Kind of says everything you need to know. But amusing it was, in a cute but strained way, because it manipulates these snippets to support the outright lie that "None of the apocalyptic predictions with due dates as of today have come true." The wiki page for founder Fred L. Smith contains some pretty comical statements he made, but very typical of Republicans in that he substitutes clichés for reasoned argument.
You do know how "think tanks" work don't you? (I can never say or write "think tanks" outside of quotation marks.) There are hundreds, mostly corporate or privately funded, created to put an academic sheen on one ideology or another. Libertarian is a common flavor, and these endlessly bang the drum for more and more deregulation of the corrupt 'Nanny State'. The US has had 4+ decades of deregulation, including repeal of Glass–Steagall that indisputably led to the 2008 financial crisis that we all are still paying for in 2022. Yet these "think tanks" bleat endlessly about Big Government, the lie started by Reagan.
Well if you had a patient suffering from poisoning, would administering more poison be a sensible remedy?
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That is NOT the Precautionary Principle. The cost of doing nothing about Global Heating will far exceed the cost of slowing down the car. In the car accident analogy we can recover in hospital and replace the car, but for the climate there is no Planet B.
We are seeing it play out in front of our eyes. (Has dik not provided enough evidence to satisfy you yet?)
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Your challenge is to find us one single prediction that has come true.
I also think you need to quantify the environmental damage all of that marijuana you burn.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.climateone.org/audio/population-bomb-5...
Funny even his own supporters admit he was wrong.
And the world has still not collapsed. No credibility.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
You may be happy to crash the car to slow it down as soon as possible, but we have to think of the children in the car too.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Reasoned argument like ignoring the examples and instead engaging in ad hominem attacks?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://theconversation.com/natural-systems-in-aus...
and also from this neighbourhood...
https://gizmodo.com/greenlands-recent-ice-melt-cou...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
makes nonsense of the per capita statistic ... why should each human expect to have the same CO2 output ?
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
collectively, it's a measure of how well a country is doing at looking after their output... no rocket science to that.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
and yet Canada fails and yet Canada is doing something to help (sure, not enough for some)
Should Iceland be charged with the emissions from airlines flying tourists to Iceland ? and shipping bringing goods to Iceland
or are these charged to the states that own the planes and ships ?
it's not rocket science. it is a simple statistic that flattens a very complex situation down to a simple number,
to (IMHO) send a message look how bad the developed nations (and particularly NA nations) are.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I suspect that's something that will drastically change in the future... There will likely come a time, in the not too distant future, when we will no longer to put up with these excesses.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Why can't the producers of 85% of the world's emissions set an example? And furthermore, this still gets played like it all depends on us. I've seen all sorts of news articles saying Joe Manchin has "doomed" the planet and so on. Sorry, but that's just not the case. Other nations have to do their part. No way we can fix this by ourselves.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I'm sorry I don't have more recent numbers. Twice the output with
54x the population. The 2018 numbers are 8.0 for China and 16.1 for the US.So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Right here:
https://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/report_2020
And actually (as of 2019) we are at 13.4% of the world's total emissions.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
my prediction came true!
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
China is trying to catch up, but the US is still ahead; now, by less than a factor of two. The US pretty much remains the same... no reduction.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I concur... Canada and the UK have dropped a tad (we're no longer ahead of Australia), and we have a way to go. China is increasing, but in the 3 years betwen 2016 and 2019 the US has remained the same. At the same time in China, in the last 30 years they have moved about 70% of their population from below the 'poverty line'. No matter how you cut it, it is not looking good, and almost no improvement on the horizon.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
per capita emissions don't reflect a country's commitment to reducing emissions, they reflect its economic status. This is why the more honest climate activists are calling for the end of industrialized first world society.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
What do you mean?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
The size of the sphere is population, but that’s not really the point of the graph. The graph is showing you GDP (x axis) vs. per capita emission (y axis). The relationship is very linear. Rich countries = high per capita emissions. Poor countries = low per capita emissions. I.e. per capita emissions is primarily a reflection of how economically developed a country is, not a reflection of how well a country is managing its emissions.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/2...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Australia and Canada may be the highest per capita being possibly the smallest in population, and the largest in landmass, developed nations.
But this doesn't mean that Australia and Canada are the evil villains of the piece (as a representative of both populations I'd be doubly damned).
The magnitude of their output (pollution?) needs to be taken into account. Though I think Australia's coal exports should be taken into account.
Coal is clearly the worst FF to burn, so measures should be taken to reduce/minimise/prohibit? it. The problem is it's a cheap fuel.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That would be funny if it were no so disappointingly upside down. Help me out here by pointing to an example that is not demonstably true and therefore warranted. (Sadly truth has become an endangered species on eng-tips.)
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That’s exactly what the graph shows. Per capita carbon footprint. That’s the vertical axis on the graph. Isn’t that your preferred metric? Per capita emissions?
It shows per capita carbon emissions graphed against a countries wealth. The linear relationship shows the way in which carbon emissions are largely a function of a countries wealth. Hence why more strident climate activists are calling for de-industrialisation and a radical reduction in our standard of living.
As for the spheres, they are simply a secondary piece of information in the graph; population.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
M alicious
E nergy
C onservation
A ctivists
?
R epublican
M others
E ncouraging
C razy
A ctions
??
I am acronym challenged to begin with, so help me out here. Seems even google has not heard of that one.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Those things being linked is not an immutable law of nature, but believing they are is the biggest stumbling block for many posters here. Try to imagine other ways of living than the only one you have known.
If de-industrialisation means ingesting and absorbing less chemical pollutants, then in one way at least my quality of life has improved. (I prefer that metric over ’standard of living’, which is strongly linked to monetary wealth only.)
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
The planet has absolutely no interest in that metric.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
I think that hits the nail on the head... my excuse for doing little, less or nothing.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
We saw those shenanigans play out in Canada under the Harper regime starting around 2005. He was only interested in serving his Alberta base.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Sometimes less is more...
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Unless you mean `less carbon footprint means more chance of not burning’.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
The data suggests otherwise. Seems your commitment to data and scientific rigour goes to water once we’re discussing the hard link between economic development and associated emissions.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That was not a data-based statement! (Does everything need to be?) The fact you cannot understand what I wrote just underscores my point, that our commitment to our ’lifestyle’ bears the hallmarks of deep quasi-religious belief, and you seem like a true believer.
Spare a thought for my facial muscles please; having to explain such things makes me cringe.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
for the potential seriousness of this problem, I don't think you are correct, but only time will tell. If you are correct, my apologies for doubting you.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Don't be so Canadian!!
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
There's nothing I can do about the final outcome, anyway... so in the words of Alfred E. Newman, "What, me worry?", but I ponder.
Time to move on...
thread1618-497017: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part III
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
Do you have to speak while you type? That must irritate your coworkers immensely, more so than a mechanical keyboard.
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
That could also indicate you have natural immunity; consider that a blessing.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
RE: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II