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# My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

## My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Now they stolen the petrol twice!!
Around 100 liters 200 EUR, and this time I am sure, because they have damaged both the hatch and the tank cap lock..
I did lock it and checked that it was when I filled it up again yesterday.

So now it is war !!
I ordered a new tank cap hopefully better then the last one and called it in to the police, not that I expect much from that though.

Some other plans, go to work and get some capacitors intigrat them in the old tank cap loading them up.

Or I like this one, go get 3 jeep cans and a pump lever, empty the tank on petrol and fill it up with ethanol, set the clock 5.30 go out and have a look if they been on it again I take a walk around and see what I can find. .

I could get a camera too, but it is so many restrictions for that, of course if the fines are reasonable I would take that it isn't as much about the money it is more the principle...

I have a feeling it is does damn kids with there EPA tractors that can't keep up with the prices, there ain't so many cars today that drives on petrol..

Any other good suggestions?

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

#### Quote (I could get a camera too, but it is so many restrictions for that)

restrictions?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Once there was a kid in the neighborhood who liked to zip around on his minibike, make noise, run stop signs, and STEAL GAS! He pilfered gas from my boat, once leaving the connector dangling (my first clue).

I left a gasoline can out but filled it with a pint of diesel and a handful of dirt. Never saw the minibike again.

What a pain in the a$$. If you go cameras make sure that you put up more fake ones than real ones. Or they will just steal those. The ethanol does sound like an idea. The real problem is that there is no lock that is 'good enough' when someone can bring tools. My grandfather had this issue back in the 70's. He just moved the bull into the field with the fuel tank. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! That sucks! Install a temporary fake one with something bad mixed with it. ctopher, CSWP SolidWorks '19 ctophers home SolidWorks Legion ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! (OP) restrictions? Well if I had lived in a house with my own yard it wouldn't have been a problem. You can put them up in "public" places in this case the apartment block parking ground. I could put one up there as long as I just films or photograph my own car and not any of my neighbors. Which is almost impossible otherwise I need to get the the tenant-owner association to do it, and there must be signs and stuff. Might get away with a dash came not sure it will get the right pictures to solve the problem though. Hmm a bull would be nice, not sure the neighbors would go for it though. I could put my self in line for a garage then they couldn't get to it, but it could take years before one is free. “Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“ Albert Einstein ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! At least they didn't drill a hole in the tank! That is not a cheap fix. -AK2DM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's the questions that drive us" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! (OP) No I have never heard of that metod used here it must be a US thing, lucky for me. There is gangs most come from other countries, that steal diesel and petrol but that is done big scale and mostly from farmers tanks and gas depos for forest machinery or road builds. “Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“ Albert Einstein ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Drilling the tank isn't unusual in my area. My truck has a 33 gallon tank. If someone did that to me, they'd probably catch less than 5 gallons and the rest left to run out on the ground. Brad Waybright The more you know, the more you know you don't know. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! You want to begin aversion training of these a$$holes. You want them to break out in a cold sweat just thinking about opening a gas hatch forever.

Set up a small high pressure pump whose nozzle is right next to the outlet. Use a low voltage timer to wait until 10 seconds after the gas hatch is opened to turn it on. Have the timer run it for an appropriate few seconds.

You could use a window washer unit which would have the tank and pump combined.

Put whatever substance you want in the tank.
Gasoline

Mercaptan

Bear repellent (pepper spray)

Green, thief marking dye

Mace

Odortec's Skunk Water
It is a truly putrid stench. Described as "worse than raw sewage" and "like a mixture of excrement, noxious gas and decomposing donkey".

Although it may induce a gagging reflex, the company says Skunk Water is made from "100% food-grade ingredients" and is "100% eco-friendly - harmless to both nature and people".

Or
Liquid Ass™ (Typically used as a medical training tool)
https://liquidass.com/

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
I was actually thinking of Green thief marking dye, just couldn't figur out the best use of it.

Or just an old fashion stake out, but I am getting to old for that kind of thing.
My guess is, that it might be a window between 2.30 and 6.00 at night at least on a weekend.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Hey! Here's another idea that might work better for you.

Same thing, a switch operated by the cover. Have it,after a few seconds, run an electric airhorn for 10 seconds. That, unlike a typically ignored car alarm, will let you know it's your car. It will also freak the thief out being non-conventional, probably making him leave her theft kit laying there.

Something like:
Air Horn

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

What types of intrusion switches and timer can you get?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

All these are well and good until you're in a hurry one day and forget....

Or you lend your car to someone and you forget to tell them ...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I suggest that you avoid any potentially dangerous traps.

Just leave a 5 liter honey trap can of petrol there for them. Of course only fill it with 1 liter of petrol. Don't forget to add powdered "icing" sugar. Works on anyone with a propensity to pick up things that are not their own and you can always claim some random sod left it there.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Hmm there is no way to get a cable inside there without start making some holes or something.
And I suspect they have been there again last night, there might have been 15 liters left since they where there the last time, haven't filled it up again.
I did lock the lock cap yesterday and now it was open again and there was some spilled liquid on the ground that I didn't see yesterday.

At least the spill closest to the hatch was there yesterday.
The half moon shape where the can has been standing I don't think was there yesterday either.

I am quit sure this wasn't there yesterday.

It seems that they park the car at my neighbors parking lot and then carry it around.
I think my neighbor to the right was working the night sift last week so then they used his lot and then the second time they parked on the lawn to the right of him and this last time to the left of my car.

Might be good to know if one should put up a camera, I think a kind of batteri go pro cam with motion sensor and night vision might do it.

Or maybe I should call my old classmate who now is a police and ask him if he can arrange a stakeout, I mean I am sure they will come back again to see if it has been filled up again.

The thing with filling it up with ethanol is that my car won't be able to run on it, even if it is a injection engine, theirs would most lightly not be able to run on it either, so when they have stolen it I can just fill mine up with petrol again, if it is 10 or 15% ethanol in it, it will still work for me to drive on.
The E95 I by has 5-12% ethanol in it to begin with.

Or maybe some strategically placed spanish riders, might not make my neighbor happy if they forget I put them out there.

And BTW it actually passed the car inspection Friday so now I am good to go two more years.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)

#### Quote:

Just leave a 5 liter honey trap can of petrol there for them.

I am afraid that will not work, Swedish kids, I assume they are kids are to smart for that one, no one leaves a petrol can like that outside here, it is to obvious.

Well I was on a electrical safety course not long ago the teacher sade you can't die from 50VAC the resistens in the body is to high to make a current high enough for that. 😈 😉

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

just get a camera sticker and put it on the window.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

You said they weren't Swedish. But anyway, stealing things happens before thinking about consequences. If they think about consequences at all, they probably are not your petrol thives. Its not the smart ones that are doing it.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Well the professional gangs that does the big petrol/gas/diesel thefts aren't Swedish, they come with tank trucks, but they wouldn't go for a 60 liter car several times, to much work, to little payoff.

In this case I am quit sure it is the kids 15 to 18 year old's with there EPA tractors that can't afford to buy petrol now to run around town in 30 km/h all day and night.

Buying the camera stickers cost almost as much as a camera, can get one for under 50 EUR, problem is it needs a telephone to program it, don't have one.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
I think I will make a paella and drown my sorrows.. sigh

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

...just don't put on any weight.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Hmm a bit higher BMI makes you live longer and I might have to start using the bicycle so I think I am safe.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

great... just concerned.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
No need to be, I am just venting a bit, I will post a picture of my paella in the cooking thread when it is finished.

And this thing about age and BMI I think the simple explanation is that when you get old your metabolism decreases and if you get sick you have more to take from, as I understood it the overweight isn't the problem as long as you eat a varied cost.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Before escalating (before - not instead of) let's think a couple of moves further ahead.

The big advantage the thieves have over you is that they know who you are, where you live and where you keep your property; you don't know the same about them and they know that you don't know that.

Fix that bit first.

A.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Your police officer friend likely has access to suitable cameras if you can get him interested in the issue.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Probably, but camera monitoring is equally restricted for the police might even be more so then for a private person.
If you ask for permissions .. that is.. so then one doesn't ask..

They where actually back last night too.
The top part of the cap was lying on the ground besides the hatch.
It has been gone since Friday and it isn't in the photos I took yesterday..
I haven't filled it up again so there where probably nothing for them to get this time, meaning they will be back again.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I say blend in some nitromethane.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Hehheehe

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Cheap noise maker? Would drawing attention to the activity do any good?

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
I was just wondering if there is lockable gas caps without a key?
Like chip or something, didn't look for anything like that, don't if there is any?
So I just ordered a new one, that looks more robust then the one I had.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I was about to post that there are ones that use a number lock ... which was true historically ... but it doesn't look like that is a style that is available on my brief searching.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Or when you fill up, add a little oil to your gas. Yes your car will smoke, but so will there's.

I had thought of doing this to keep tailgaters off my tail, but, I haven't yet. So I don't know what is the right mix.
Maybe some 2 cycle oil, used in chainsaws. Make lots of smoke in them.

Adding diesel is an idea, but some people who drive larger gas vehicles add a little diesel to prevent vapor locking in hot weather.

One other note, the alcohol used for adding to gas, must be 200% proof, so it will mix with gas. So I wonder if adding gas with water (a method of ripping people off years ago), then when mixed, would make the alcohol and gas separate?
Yes, gas stations would add water to gas prior to state gas inspections. If your car ran poorly, it was because of bad gas.
Only a few places around here still sell non-alcohol gas.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Most cars these days have latched doors to the gas fill tube, with a non-locking gas cap; the door can only be released from the driver's seat. Maybe you can check to see which cars are getting siphoned and whether there's any correlation to latching doors, or not.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Adding diesel or lube oil to gasoline is problematic as they both have very low octane ratings and can cause detonation.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Well it seems like they just recently have updated the google map so here is the full picture.

My problem is there is nowhere to make a stake out where you don't need to sitt outside in - 6 C all night and there is no electricity for a camera since the motor outtake goes on timer and temperatur and putting a camera there it would be unprotected.
I thought my best option to get some good pictures where to put a camera for animals not sure what it is called in English goes on batteri with a motion sensor and night vision and put it on the garage roof where the X is, but they are very expensive and to be quite sure to get them I would probably need two of them.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Well in Sweden cars that drives purely on ethanol is quite common or they can actually drive on witch mix of petrol/ethanol as they like.
Where I fill up petrol they have E95 petrol or E85 which is ethanol, some cars can drive on it even if they are not made for it, not all though but it can harm caskets and tubes and stuff.
I think a fule injection engine like mine which can change the "spark" angle better can handle it better then a carburetor one, but I have no intention of driving on it just let them steal it and then fill it up with petrol again all our petrol contains a bit of ethanol too, so some % more or less wont make a difference.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

The wildlife ecologists have those trail cameras that can take snapshots and short videos for months. Some security cameras are like that as well.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

The other option is to fill up daily, with just enough for the day. That way your car gas tank sits mostly empty.

Nothing like going in and buying 2 or 3 liters of gas.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Well that is my taktiks right now but I can have so little it super many turns before it ignites not sure why that is.
Filled it a up a little bit today and filled up the spare can.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Do any of the anti-siphon gadgets work well enough to just go ahead and install one? Example

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Hmm interesting, haven't seen that solution.
It seems they have called from the police though, wasn't home, I hope they try again.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Maybe something as a simple decal inside you gas door stating
"Smile! You're on camera"

Or, maybe an actual gate latch and padlock on the fuel door... Would look redneck, but would probably be a pretty good deterrent...
They'll just look at it, and move on to an easier target.

David
Connect with me on LinkedIn. http://lnkd.in/fY7-QK
Quote: "If it ain't broke, I must not've fixed it good enough"

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Who needs a "made up name" fuel when history offers so many genuine deterrents?

Why not convert the Volvo to run on HTP or AVPIN? Either would make an interesting hobby project.

A.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I'm trying to think what the analog of using pingpong balls to prank medicine cabinet snoopers would be.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Hmm.. well they called from the police some "secretary", more like they wanted to put all the info together.
Got my new tank cap haven't tried it, so I don't know if it is better or sturdier then the old one or if it even fits.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I don't know if you can get this locally, but something like a TattleTale alarm. Holds a charge for well more than a night. They also have a simple vibration alarm that I've used before that lets out a high pitch alarm sound at the slightest touch: Pet Training Alarm. It might scare them at least.

- Andrew

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

How about a fake natural gas coupling under the lid?

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

This is obviously not necessarily a practical thing, but one could possibly redirect the tank fill tube to a more secure location in the car, and route the normal fill tube to a honeypot filled with noxious things, such as sugared fuel, etc.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

IRstuff...
I had thought of something similar...
Except have a diverter valve that defaults to the "dummy" tank filled with gas, sand, sugar, whatever...
You only switch it when you're filling up.
So when their siphon hose goes in, it goes to the dummy tank...
When you fill up, it is switched to the normal tank...
Problem with all of these booby traps is that if they get sufficiently pissed off, they might come back and just vandalize your car.

David
Connect with me on LinkedIn. http://lnkd.in/fY7-QK
Quote: "If it ain't broke, I must not've fixed it good enough"

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Yes that is my worry, so zeusfaber is right, the best thing would be to find out who I am dealing with here first.
Then that might be enough,

The police sade that if they got lots of reports in the same area they could make a "special operation" hmm I wonder if that means invasion and war.... to try to get things under control.
Not sure what the definition of lots is though?

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

The issue is that most "new", i.e. post 2000 cars have either anti rollover backflow / anti syphon devices installed as standard.

Your errr "vintage" car does not, hence it's an easy target. I doubt there are many others where someone can do this so the police won't get to their criteria of "a lot". So no special operation.

I would simply buy one of those retrofit anti syphon devices, put a sticker near the tank to say one has now been fitted and then forget all these other rather silly devices and things people are mentioning.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Or just install a drawer lock on your gas tank lid, in addition to a locking gas cap.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Well, easily defeated if they truly don't care about damaging the car, but at least the damage would be plainly obvious to any observer if they were to pry it open.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I second LittleInch's suggestion.

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

promotional video for sure, but looks by far the best option to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmft3ZZN9AM

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Sorry LittleInch, but BiPolarMoment already gets credit for that one

26Apr22 16:10

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Oh I know - I got the idea from him or her - sorry for not crediting it - but this is a video of how it works.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

The biggest benefit of having the ball in the fuel fill tube is that it will help to prevent fuel from leaking out of the tank in the unfortunate event that the vehicle is ever turned upside down. That's the route I would go.

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
I talked to my workmates they had a lot of creative ideas, one of the mechanics he is really "blood thirsty" he sade I can lend you my shotgun with the muffler, I sade I do have my 30.06 I think it will do the job, but since that is a bit to hefty, he sade he also had a paintball gun I could borrow, he suggested putting the paint balls in the freezer, he sade it gave them a better punch.
I asked if it wasn't enough putting them in the fridge +6 C he suggested +2 C as an compromise .
He sade he had a air bag that I could take rigging it up under the car so when they open the hatch I deploy it.
The ideas don't stop coming.
He though I was to nice about it.

But as BiPolarMoment sad "Well, easily defeated if they truly don't care about damaging the car" I also found out that this drilling holes in the tank has happened here last year, put on modern cars the tanks are made in plastic they say?
And even this year but then in a city 100 km north of here.

I realized that I could quite easily improve the the cap lock by putting collar on the outside of the tube with the same diameter as the top of the cap so they cant use a screwdriver to pry it open and maybe even put a cap on that with a padlock on.
But if they don't care about doing more damage that wont help just making it worse for me.

#### Quote (LittleInch)

errr "vintage" car
My errr vintage car is cheap as they come, and really reliable. 👍

#### Quote (LittleInch)

Hmm I guess I need to go electric then.

I do wonder how long it will take before they start stealing electricity from cars and if anyone has thought about how to protect from that.
Should be easier if to do if it has crossed anyone's mind.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Also... on this subject of theft from a vehicle...

A young engineer with a pretty-red jacked-up pickup truck came out and started-it-up at noon to go to lunch [I was walking my doggie]. It sounded like the tailpipe or muffler had fallen-off... and it ran horribly.

A quick inspection on the UNDERSIDE of his truck's exhaust system revealed the catalytic converter had been brutally 'cutout' and stolen.

Apparently with a pry-bar [to tear-away the debris-impact shield] and a portable recip-saw, it takes just seconds to expose, cut-out and drop the converter. Security video showed 'when' it likely happened but was otherwise unusable for law-enforcement, who said effectively '...awshit, not another one'...

The repair bill was almost $1000 total. Not to mention his lost work time and deep anger. Regards, Wil Taylor o Trust - But Verify! o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown] o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase] o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum] ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Yeah the Catalytic converter theft is starting to run rampant where I am too. A teammate of mine started his truck in the morning one day and there's no mistaking it, he said it's essentially like having a 2 foot long straight pipe off the engine, woke everyone on his block up. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! (OP) Yes that is quite common here too. I do have one on my car too, but is very cheap to buy a new one. Not sure if the ones for new cars are really expensive or if they get a better price for them else where because they contain expensive metals. “Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“ Albert Einstein ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Question, who buys used catalytic converters? Do they pay, without asking questions? Here, most metal recycling places ask for a name, and where to send the check. They don't pay on site. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Just remembered there was a thread in The Pub when I was facing a similar problem. https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=136782 Gas thief! Need ideas. What's missing from the thread is the final resolution, which I posted above: old gas can with diesel and dirt took the offender out of commission permanently. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! I have a new Ford... it has a gas-door that opens and unlocks the opening for refueling [NO gas-cap what-so-ever] but the system has a gap and secondary safety valve/cap that HAS TO BE breached by the pump nozzle on insertion. This gas-filler-feature is a pain when manually refilling from a gas-can [or when adding fuel-additives]. The nozzle or flex-hose from a gas can won't open the secondary cap-lock. A very rigid specially-shaped 'plastic filler' has to be force-inserted to breach the gap and unlock the secondary cap. I think this is an 'anti-siphon' feature... and possibly for added fire/explosion safety in a crash. Regards, Wil Taylor o Trust - But Verify! o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown] o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase] o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum] ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! (OP) We discussed it at work here it seems to be specific car models they go for so we are guessing they sell them to other car owners on "black market". To my car it isn't that expensive only around 73 EUR, and the car looks really old so they might not even know it has one. I just remembered that they put a decal on the back window that says it has one, I will take it away.. “Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“ Albert Einstein ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! As for the converter thefts... They target diesel trucks and vans, because the converters are big and vluable, and the trucks have plenty of room to slide under with your saw. You're most likely safe since your car sits low enough they can't get under it without jacking it up and making a scene... They go for easy targets. They'll also hit fleet vehicles... Churches and contractors around here have had 4-5 stolen at one time. And there are laws that resellers have to follow, but many don't... They are starting to crack down on the converter business here. Here's an article about some who just got busted for buying them without following proper rules. https://dailyjournal.net/2022/04/27/five-arrested-... David Connect with me on LinkedIn. http://lnkd.in/fY7-QK Quote: "If it ain't broke, I must not've fixed it good enough" ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! The recyclers aren't the problem. The converters get loaded in shipping containers and sent overseas where our laws don't matter. I think Vietnam is a major receiver of these converters. Red, if your converter is that cheap it's likely a fake. In California, we have to do emissions inspections so you can't use aftermarket converters. They have to be from the original manufacturer. This means that if your converter is stolen, the manufacturer of the car has discontinued production, you can't buy a used one because junk yards aren't allowed to sell them, then your car becomes totaled as it will no longer be legal to drive. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! (OP) We have emission inspections every time the car is inspected here too, but they only look at the measured values and that they are within the legal range for the car they don't care what brand anything is. It is what comes out that counts. Well my car is the most manufactured one in Swedish history so I think that, that has some impact on the price and it is a petrol car and not a diesel. “Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“ Albert Einstein ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Catalytic converters have precious metals in them and that is the key driver of cost, not so much demand. If you compare the emissions of a good running car with catalytic converter you will see that they are quite low compared to the allowable, often 10% or less so there is a lot of fudge room available to install a fake converter but your vehicle is polluting substantially more than it would normally. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! (OP) Well if I would buy it from the ones that claim the they sell the original parts today, it would be 100EUR. There is a wide price range to other car brands not sure why, think some of it has to do with engine size. On my car they only check the CO/K ppm value it was 0,4% max 4,5% but then again I think mine is the original. “Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“ Albert Einstein ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Tug, your car would not be totaled, as it can be sold in other states, with an aftermarket converter. I know you can buy replacement converters, as I had to replace mine years ago, after it was plugged up. Besides in several states they don't check emissions, as that would be illegal in those states (excessive search and censure laws apply). Sort of the same as requiring you to submit to a body scan at the airport. And why can't junkyards sell them? They are like any other parts on a car. That makes no since. Then again you do live in California. I will say we generally don't have smog problems here. Just second hand smoke from distant fires. And maybe a few of our own fire from stupid people (Vagerents, and the military mostly). ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! The used converter sales ban is federal: https://www.nnawg.com/why-cant-auto-recyclers-sell... A totaled car simply means the cost to repair is higher than the value of the car. If a converter is not available to be purchased the cost becomes exceedingly high. It does appear Magnaflow sells a CARB compliant universal cat. I'd be curious how that works. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! A few years back the WI emissions test went from actual tailpipe to just verifying that the OBDII data was correct. And only certain counties in WI require it. Some the older, larger cats are worth a lot because they have a lot of Pt and such in them. They had to on some cars to make up for poor engine control. Some of these actually have 1 Toz of PGM in them. So call it$1,000.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

OBDII, sounds too new for my old truck. Maybe OBDI is more accurate.
Then again when they started car inspections (in some states), it was more about tires, breaks, windshields, and a tail pipe monitor. But older cars were exempt from the tailpipe, as they met the requirements at the time they were built.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I did a paper in one of my advanced electives (I was the only undergrad!) about catalytic properties of amorphous glass metals.

Common metals like nickel and copper have catalytic abilities several times greater than normal if they are in an amorphous glass state. The glass state is achieved by cryogenically cooling molten metal so fast that it can't crystallize.

The biggest problem is that it can't readily be productized. The glass is brittle. Can't be machined. Can't be plated.

Fun, challenging paper. The prof selected me to write on the topic, as he was interested and didn't have time. Had to really dig deep for resources. Definitely the most research-heavy paper I've ever done. He offered me an RA position after that.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I have used braze foil that was amorphous. They cast it against a spinning Cu wheel and make ribbons of it.
For a cat I would think that you roll spirals of these.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Can I ask where you went to schools, Ed?

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Red,

Any updates? I'd imagine if it happened again to you, we'd of been updated.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I went to Purdue back in the dark ages (gad '80)

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Well they haven't been back as far as can tell since that weekend when they came back four times.
It was the weekend before the Easter holiday, there is many that take the week of and go to the mountains to drive their snowmobiles.
Probably some youngsters that didn't have the economical means to drive there and back ca 600km and also tank up there snowmobiles.
I have put on my new lockable cap, but I haven't really filled the tank full since then, I might do it today though.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Well gas is still going up, and I see they managed to scrape all the 'I did that' stickers off the gas pumps.
Not much snowmobiling here now, as most of the snow below tree line is melted. Maybe some jeeping on the trails.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

#### Quote (cranky108)

...gas is still going up, and I see they managed to scrape all the 'I did that' stickers off...

Here too- but notwithstanding lack of the sticker, the general consensus remains, at least in my community.
So far, my record is $180.11 for a fill of diesel. And thievery of fuel is on the rise. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! (OP) 'I did that' stickers. Here people complain about the prices, then they fill the car/snowmobile up, and drive as usual. Some say I will take that, no problem, as long as the Ukrainians beat the crap out of the Russians, the gas price is nothing compared to what they have to withstand. “Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“ Albert Einstein ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! 'I did that' stickers. Yes stickers with Biden pointing at something. We see them mostly on gas pumps, pointing at the price. Seems many people here are blaming Biden for the higher prices of just about everything, and mostly gas. After all he did spend (and the democrats) billions of dollars for the bailout (bribe people to like him), with money from the government (or so that is what is thought). It is a matter of perspective, but it was spent by the government, and it seems to have caused inflation (or so people think). Gas is now at$4.09 per gallon here. Diesel is at $5.?? here (I don't use it so I don't really pay much attention). The other theft here is catalytic converters (smog devices on cars). ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! This price spike has everything to do with the downturn a few years back. Current events are actually a very minor part of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQbmpecxS2w This hits it on the head. In WI gas prices are back to where they were in late 2012- early 2013, before the downturn. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Can't wait for my LPG car to turn up.... Going to see if I can get a full year out of the full tank of petrol it will get delivered with. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! I would think a LNG car should run cleaner, and give you fewer problems, as the fuel should be cleaner. Although, I have heard of salt being in NG, so I would assume it could also be in LNG. At least with LNG, you would not expect to have fuel pump problems. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! #### Quote (Alistair) Going to see if I can get a full year out of the full tank of petrol it will get delivered with. Don't forget to stabilize that petrol in the tank The devil is in the details; she also wears prada. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Having four wheels underneath the tank should be stable as long as the CG is not too high. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Why would one need to stabilize the fuel for LNG or LPG? ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! LPG cars usually start on petrol and run for a few miles until it all warms up as LPG doesn't like vapourising as much when it's stone cold. Also it does give you a plan B in case you run out of LPG. The car manufacturers tend to leave the petrol tank there and put the LPG tank in the space where the spare wheel used to be. So your petrol might be in there for a long time and if you don't add some stabiliser, it can vent off and become not very good petrol... Remember - More details = better answers Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Many old LPG tanks I have seen were on the headache rack. Up in the air. But that might be the old way. Yea I can see needing fuel stabilizer, for the gas. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! I've been riding my bike to work as much as I can, 3-4 days a week. Saving 1 1/4 gallons of diesel a day about pays for lunch. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! ...either you have a really inefficient diesel vehicle, ride extraordinarily far, or both? ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! I'd imagine even the worst consumer diesel would get at least 20 miles to the gallon. So you're about 15 miles each way. That's not an insane amount of biking if you're actually going at it. realistically it's maybe 45 minutes to an hour at a good clip on a nice bike. Not unreasonable. ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Those 'nice bikes' typically cost as much as a used consumer vehicle that would get better than 20 miles/gallon... or at least my mother's road bikes do. And keeping up 15 mph on anything but a road bike is not a leisurely pace. I hope you have a shower at work. :) ### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!! Middle case of each. 82 Benz 300TD ~28mpg on summer diesel By hiway is 16.5 miles each way, bike path is 14.2 each way. Lunch is leftovers, pizza or subway for$7-10
Used 15 year old cyclocross bike much more safe and comfortable than my 30 year criterium bike, \$800.
52±5 minutes depending on the wind.
85-110 miles/week is the high end of bike commuting, but I think much less than my brother rides to train for a race in the mountains- if you finish you win a large belt buckle, if you finish under a time limit, you win a giant belt buckle.

I'm going to see if I can get to and from work for all of june without using a car. If I can uncap my electric scooter, I'll use that for a midweek rest day. Topping out at 15 mph is almost impractically slow for me.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

I think the biggest change in over 30 years in bikes was not materials (weight) more gears / wider range, aerodynamics but understanding of rolling drag. People used to ride skinny hi pressure tires, 19mm wide, 100-120psi to minimize the rolling drag of the wheel, but all the testing was done under constant load on a rolling drum. Once some riders doing their own studies of it realized if the tires (low hysteresis) passed on road vibration to the rider (high hysteresis) it wasted a lot of energy. Racers are now using 25-30mm wide tires and the new rim design standard is for 72 psi max. People still think getting banged in the nuts by every pebble means they are going fast though.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

The biggest problem is I think I count fuel savings multiple times-
Buying lunch is OK, I rode my bike today.
It's OK if I lend them some money, I rode my bike today.
A new bike is OK, it will pay for itself in fuel savings.
New tires for the bike are OK, I rode my bike today.

And so on.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

#### Quote (moon161)

The biggest problem is I think I count fuel savings multiple times-

I do/did this with cutting alcohol out of my diet... bought a bunch of PC parts at one point with what I didn't drink. Ate a lot of calories I didn't drink. I still think I've come out ahead though.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

Yes, I get many fewer visits from the blues as well.

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

(OP)
Hahaha
I bought an electric bike don't use it as much as I should, but more then my old one 12 gear bike without foot brake that I bought secondhand instead of my new 7 gear bike with foot brake that got stolen.

I usually only use one gear so..

The electric one has 8 gears and 4 different levels of power none, economic, medium and max.
There is a limit on how fast it can go on electric so sometimes downhill it "motor brakes" LOL.
It adds the power in the amount of how much you pedal, so you can't just ride along.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

### RE: My new hobby preventing thieves from stealing my petrol!!

This is what you need...

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