Quieting generator for neighbors?
Quieting generator for neighbors?
(OP)
Because of the way the world is going, I just bought a portable generator for emergency power. It's a Chinese clone of the Honda eu2000i . I measured about 70dBa from two car lengths away.
I will be running this to power my ground-floor apartment but I'm concerned about the annoyance it will cause the neighbors. Running it in the backyard the noise is very obvious and I'm sure it travels up to where all the neighbors are (there's 5 floors of apartments above mine).
I have a small brick outhouse in the yard (small meaning 1m wide, 1.8m long and 2m high - about the floor area of three washing machines). I've considered locking the generator in there and plumbing the exhaust outside, but I'm concerned that it will overheat since there's no ventilation and the walls are 20cm concrete block. The door is aluminium with glass panes, about 90cm wide and 1.9m high. Is this room too small to passively handle the heat from a 2kW generator?
Another option I considered is a quiet box. I previously built one for my dad's generator (a 4kw open-frame non inverter). We used plywood lined with foam and put two intake and two exhaust baffles, plus a centrifugal blower for forced ventilation. It reduced the noise of that generator from 77dBA to about 67dBA, but the box is massive and weighs about as much as the generator (30kg). Is there some way to construct a quiet box that's also lightweight and cheap? The generator cost €500 so I'd rather not spend $1200 on a professional quiet box.
Last option I've considered is running it in my garage that forms part of the underlying garage complex, but then it would be running relatively unattended, and the fumes and noise would be getting dumped into the common parts of the garage complex which might cause more problems.
Thoughts?
I will be running this to power my ground-floor apartment but I'm concerned about the annoyance it will cause the neighbors. Running it in the backyard the noise is very obvious and I'm sure it travels up to where all the neighbors are (there's 5 floors of apartments above mine).
I have a small brick outhouse in the yard (small meaning 1m wide, 1.8m long and 2m high - about the floor area of three washing machines). I've considered locking the generator in there and plumbing the exhaust outside, but I'm concerned that it will overheat since there's no ventilation and the walls are 20cm concrete block. The door is aluminium with glass panes, about 90cm wide and 1.9m high. Is this room too small to passively handle the heat from a 2kW generator?
Another option I considered is a quiet box. I previously built one for my dad's generator (a 4kw open-frame non inverter). We used plywood lined with foam and put two intake and two exhaust baffles, plus a centrifugal blower for forced ventilation. It reduced the noise of that generator from 77dBA to about 67dBA, but the box is massive and weighs about as much as the generator (30kg). Is there some way to construct a quiet box that's also lightweight and cheap? The generator cost €500 so I'd rather not spend $1200 on a professional quiet box.
Last option I've considered is running it in my garage that forms part of the underlying garage complex, but then it would be running relatively unattended, and the fumes and noise would be getting dumped into the common parts of the garage complex which might cause more problems.
Thoughts?
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
And go all the way down to the final post from the OP who is in a very similar situation. His recommendation? Buy an off the shelf solution....
Also do a search in the top right on generator noise. Lots of people have had the same question over the years.
Gen sets like that are designed to work in the open air. Enclosing them is problematic for any long term operation in terms of air supply for the engine itself plus cooling loads.
Don't put it in the garage. You could easily cause problems for other people and could create a hazardous atmosphere, never mind the noise.
Light cheap and simple. You might get two of of three.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
I have developed a method that you may find useful- do not take ownership of the issue. When you get a complaint, point out that the primary cause of discomfort is not your generator, but rather the fact that the utility has failed - and that when the utility power is restored, you will shut the generator down promptly. Then offer to provide a phone number for the local utility.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
Wayne - I actually pondered offering them free electricity via extension cord for the duration of the power cut. That turns it from "annoyance" to "lifesaver" real quick. The problem is that there's 5 apartments above me, and 15 apartments within earshot. I sized the generator perfectly for my needs. I wanted it small and light, and this one is around 25kg so I can move it around one-handed. It outputs 2200W peak, 1800W continuous. I mainly bought it to run my microwave (1300W actual consumption), air fryer (1600W), washing machine (300W), fridge (1000W starting, 170W running) or dryer (570-1100W). So if the neighbors join in it will run their electronics, but throw in more than one fridge and the starting surge will most likely trip the overload protection. And non-engineer neighbors can't be trusted not to try running a 2000W toaster or 3000W tea kettle once they get the extension cable to their home. Plus I'd probably be liable if their appliances are damaged by the power. So I abandoned that idea.
Easiest solution is to hide it under an awning and hope nobody realises the noise is coming from me 😅. But since petrol goes bad I still have to run it once a month to keep the carb clean and boil the condensation out of the oil, so I can't always blame it on power cuts.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
I do not recommend running a cord to any of the neighbors. But if a friend wants to stop by and put something in the microwave, that is a bit different.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
How long do you plan to run this generator and for how many days?
Fridge and freezers will be OK for a few hours if you keep them closed but then need to run for probably 30% of the day in periods of one to two hours. Can't see in an emergency why you would want to do any washing but a washing machine eats power die to heating the water.
How much fuel storage do you have? These generators eat fuel but have a small tank so you end up filling them every 2 hours.
No lights?
How do you plan to connect the power? Plug each thing in one at a time to an extension lead?
But the noise will not go down well, especially if everyone has lost power for hours or days.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
I'm in the middle of a test at the moment. I waited for the low fuel light to illuminate in my car, and dumped the old fuel from the jerry can into my car (it was about half full, so about 5 liters). Basically part of the process of rotating out old fuel from storage and replacing it with fresh. So far the tripmeter is showing almost 2 hours of driving over the last four days and the low fuel light still isn't on. But it's impressive that such a small quantity of petrol can run a 1400cc turbocharged car engine for that long. The generator is 150cc, and I think the specs say 10 hours of running on a full tank at half-load. This being an inverter generator it runs lower-power loads at much-reduced rpm.
I plan to connect it by suicide cord (backfeeding through an outlet). The utility meter has a disconnect switch built in which I toggle and I also have another 5 protective switches (RCBs etc.) which I switch off between the utility supply and the house circuits. Essentially the house gets isolated off the grid and I use the existing wiring to distribute the electricity to every room. Since each outlet is rated for 13A at 240V (UK system) it's more than capable of handling my 2000W generator or my 500W inverter. But really the critical things are lights and modem, which consume some 50-100W and the inverter is more than capable to handle. The fridge/freezer are rated to go 17 hours between power cuts according to the manual (and we store water bottles in the fridge to increase thermal capacity) so it's unlikely I'd need to run them on generator.
I mentioned the washer and dryer because that's far more likely to qualify as an "emergency" needing a generator. Picture needing to dry a wet uniform asap, that sort of thing.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
I see you have your watts calculated and usage will have to be cycled between appliances.
I guarantee if you invite neighbors to plug in there will be no cycling of appliances and arguments will follow. The generator will not handle all that loading.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
The 5 RCBs will be running off the same board so you really only have one breaker between you and the grid. Get this wrong once and your generator will be toast.
But the original question still remains- noise.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
Or try this? https://aquietrefuge.com/build-soundproof-box-for-...
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
With something like this the power goes out, you run a few cords to what you need to run and you're in business. You also plug this thing in and when power comes back nothing at all happens except this unit starts re-charging. You can continue to do nothing as in stormy weather the power could go out again or blink a couple of times. You can't do this with a generator as the neighbors can legitimately complain.
Nothing you have still running on this would notice or be interrupted during subsequent utility upsets. When the likelihood of further interruption has dropped to zero, at your leisure, you can switch stuff back to your utility outlets.
If you have a prolonged outage you run on this as described above and before evening you proceed with the hassle of using the generator to run the line-input on this unit to fully recharge the battery then dump the generator and put it away at dusk. Then you have many hours of husbanded silent power to run with. You leave it plugged into an outlet so whenever the utility comes back it starts recharging again.
DIY LiFePO4 Version of the EB240 Solar Generator
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
Cooling is not the only issue with an enclosure, you need air for combustion.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
It contains a duplex outlet, a breaker, and the connection from the generator.
Yes, he has to run extension cords.
But it doesn't need professional installation and it works for a small generator where you will only be running one thing at a time anyway.
I have seen commercial ones in the US for about $200.
They are often marketed as being for a heating furnace.
These are meant to be hard wired but there is an access plate that you can remove to mount the outlet.
On the noise side, how much will this run at night? That is when it is likely to be an issue.
You could use your outhouse and add a forced ventilation fan to bring in outside air.
My daughter lived in an apartment where one tenant had a generator.
During outages he would put a small table and couple of chairs out in the hallway along with a strip that had 4 2A USB connections.
This way neighbors could keep phones and such charged.
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
The noise ordinance in my county has limits at the property line between residences of 55 dBA during the day and 45 dBA at night.
Do not use a double-ended suicide cord. Unfortunately, that name is not full descriptive of all the folks that a double-ended cord can kill. In addition to killing yourself with it, you could kill:
1) utility workers attempting to repair the power lines
2) your neighbors if your generator backfeeds a downed power line
3) anyone standing by your generator when utility power is restored, since your generator may explode
4) your friends/family if they incorrectly attempt to use the cord
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
Here's my generator - http://estlion.com/EGE2000Ti.html . It's rated at 61dBA, idling, at 7m. Of course it's a poor clone of a Honda EU2200i - I bought this for what amounts to about a quarter of the price of the Honda in my country
We have a nifty automatic transfer switch and a whole-building UPS at the office (which I helped spec and put together with an electrician), but for the house it's a bit overkill plus the location of the CB panels very far away from the yards means running the cable from generator to transfer switch is impractical (this being a house there's no drop ceilings, and our houses are made of stone so no fishing cables behind drywall for instance).
It would be nice to have a whole-house UPS and eliminate the generator entirely, but lead-acid batteries seem to degrade rapidly and like I said, LiFePO4 isn't really available in Malta. Well, there are some marine vendors that offer 12V 100Ah for €1500-€2200, which is a bit steep considering the generator only cost €570.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
The cooling required for the engine is equal to the power output. Size your airflow accordingly.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
LA batteries do lose capacity quickly. Seems newer ones faster yet, and the weight.. ugh.
LFP batteries have dropped in price a lot recently and new suppliers have appeared. It might make sense to re-assess that route now. Especially with the whole Russian caused gas nightmare you could be having more outages.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
Wayne, I am too. If I open my own small engine factory I might be able to provide one by making the world's smallest liquid-cooled, turbocharged engine. Might go for a boxer design (horizontally opposed) to have near perfect balance with minimal counterweighting on the crankshaft. I have no intention to try that, but if I do you will be the first to know 😅. I still am not sure why nobody tries. I suspect it's because the Chinese just clone Honda, and Honda are content being cautious and aiming for absolute reliability rather than cutting-edge performance. I find the older I get and the more experience I get of how the average user treats the product in the field, the more I realize why some carmakers design cars that will keep running without an oil change in 10-years...
If we ever have mainstream fuel cells that can run on natural gas or straight gasoline, it might be a possibility to achieve those specs by going that route (and bonus points for being silent) - the FC provides the immense compact energy that only liquid fuels can store, and a LFP battery provides surge power capability. A 5-10kW inverter doesn't take that much space and weight, powering it for 5 hours is the only issue.
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
RE: Quieting generator for neighbors?
@LMF5000
So sorry about your experience in Europe. We have been used to this all our life in Africa. Adults and Children alike scream for joy when the power company supplies power suddenly. The normal is power outage. The abnormal is power availability. Perhaps, the situation in Europe will compel global bodies to listen and evaluate various claims about the invention of non-fossil power machines other than solar, wind and others.
Let me know if you do not have a solution of a non-fossil silent power generator(other than solar, wind etc) by last quarter of 2022.
All the best.