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Saw table, ugh

Saw table, ugh

Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Had a terrible last week. This is hard to type with left hand.
A week ago Saturday, started building custom cabinets to remodel main bathroom.
Got the main side panels ripped down with circular saw, then went to table saw to trim them to size. Had safety guards in place.
The last panel, cutting 20.5" width, about two-thirds the way through, somehow the panel kicked up.
My right hand, which was near the fence 20" away from the blade, somehow went through the blade. I have know idea how this happened.
I looked down, saw my index finger cut up a different places, my middle finger hanging at the knuckle. Blood squirting everywhere.
Then shock set in.
Wife (a nurse) was at a training class. No neighbors outside. I screamed for someone, nobody.
Lucky to have Siri. I told my phone Siri to dial 911. Within 5 minutes paramedics were there.
I told Siri to send text "911" to my wife. She called back just as firemen showed up. She talked to them.
They rushed me to UCI hand trauma unit.
The next morning, 4 hour surgery to rebuild and save my fingers.
Today I had my first post surgery visit. They said everything looks good. Still not sure about tip of middle finger, 1/8" (width of blade) of bone gone, time will tell if grows back together.
I go back in 3 weeks to get pins out. Back to work in 6 weeks.
In a few weeks I will be purchasing the SawStop table saw. My wife in convinced.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Wow, that's terrible. Thank goodness the shock didn't paralyze you or cause you to feint. Glad to hear the doctors are optimistic.

I've had scares and near misses that left holes in my hands for short periods, but nothing so severe to cause permanent damage.

- Andrew

RE: Saw table, ugh

Yeah my nephew ( early 30s)) had similar incident using his table planer. Lost the top of one finger , same pattern , blood eveywhere and rapid onset of shock and fainting. It seems that overconfidence sets in too easily and none of us recognise the inherent dangers with some of these machines. I suspect that we all take adequate precautions at work but fail to take the necessary when at home.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Sorry to hear that, hope it heals well and quickly!

"Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively."
-Dalai Lama XIV

RE: Saw table, ugh

Ouch. Bones do generally fuse back together, even when cut so hopefully that goes well for you.

I was just using my little jobsite table saw. It has no guards, no protection, nothing. I was going to put together a dado stack for grooving drawer boxes but decided I want to try to minimize how much I use the saw. I just bought a hand router plane this weekend. I also bought a nice back saw for doing dovetails. I'm going all in on no power tools.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Dang, sorry to hear, ctopher!

Hopefully things heal up well for you. I always did dread using table saws....

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.

RE: Saw table, ugh

I'm glad you had a Siri... Take care and heal... You can still use your left on the keyboard, I hope... might slow you down a bit... hate to lose a valuable poster! pipe

Joking aside... just get better.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

Luckily they are very good at fixing does types of injuries today so I am sure it will work out well.
A plus having a nurse as a wife she will for sure keep everything under observation and on track so it heals alright.

My nice cut here finger off with a stick mixer when she was about two, I think here older sister was more in chock then she was, my sister drove here to the hospital here self, it is about 35 km.
Here aunt was a anesthesia nurse in the orthopedic department of the hospital, she hade just finished here shift when she heard my/here nice was coming in so she just went in changed to here working cloths again.
So she could help put her to sleep.
It was a Friday so they hade been promised pizza for dinner so when she woke up after the operation, she sade she was hungry and they ask what she wanted, it was pizza, so they went and bought one.
Then she ate pizza and threw up and ate more pizza and threw up again smile no intension to give up on that pizza even though she couldn't keep anything down.
She is all recovered now wouldn't know anything happened, but then kids have easy to heal.

I do believe and hope everything will be okey, and that you will recover fully.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Ouch, glad you are in one bit, if slightly edited. It took a while but the nerves in a fingertip that I slashed with a scalpel did reconnect.

I have to chop a couple of trees up every year and decided that at 62 bending down to chop them up with the chainsaw was getting a bit too hard. hard=dangerous.

So I got one of these and can cut and stack a cubic metre in less than an hour, and it is, if not fun, at least not back breaking. The absence of a hold down device is an interesting design choice, so your hand is on the log as it is being cut, it's up to you not to put it in the path of the blade. The ergonomics of the right hand are bloody awful, your shoulder takes a pounding.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_20...

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Saw table, ugh

I can remember when my uncle, who decided when he was about 50 years old that he suddenly wanted to get into woodworking and so he went out and bought a full shop of new woodworking tools (he had a really good job and lots of disposable income) which made my dad jealous as his tools were old, mos;ty second hand that he had gotten from other people or stuff that was broken that he manged to fix. Anyway, I can remember my uncle bragging about this first big job he was going to do where he was going build all the cabinets for his finished basement, which had only a few shelves and stuff when they moved in. Well, sure enough, on about the third cut he made on his brand new table-saw, he completely removed half of his Right thumb. Well, that was it for his woodworking hobby. And my dad, while he never said anything directly to who would have been his brother-in-law, gloated over the fact that he had been building stuff for years on his old hand-me-down tools and he'd managed to it with the minimum amount of blood lose.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

Damn, ctopher, I’m sorry to hear about that! Godspeed in healing, amigo!

Good Luck,
Latexman

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Thanks all.
I say, the fingers have a lot of nerves, worse pain I have ever felt!
The paramedics gave me three injections of fentanyl, none worked. The, the ER gave me morphine.
The paramedics did say my blood pressure dropped into 40's. I felt OK other than hand pain.
In the ER, I fainted. I suddenly got very sweaty and sleepy. I thought I fell asleep. But, they said I passed out. I woke up to a cardio crash team and pads ready.
They said my heart dropped this time to 30's. It dropped again the next morning during surgery.
I'm told to see a cardiologist. Never had heart issues. I think it was due to all the drugs and loss of blood.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Ouch!

Sorry to hear this, but glad it wasn't worse.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Definitely get an EKG done. When your heart rate drops into the 30s that can trigger a heart attack. I have heard stories about athletes that have resting heart rates in the 30s and they have to wake themselves up periodically and exercise or else they'll have a heart attack from the low heart rate.

RE: Saw table, ugh

If you do get the EKG, I have to warn you about the worst part. It's find one of the dang stickers a full day later in the shower.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Yikes ctopher!

I can imagine how you don't know what transpired.

In my twenties I was using a big Dewalt radial arm saw. At some point while sawing a short piece of 2x4 instead of cutting it, it distorted, the blade climbing up on the 2x4 and essential drove across the 2x4 sync'd up to blade speed. That sucker hit me in probably 5 or 10 milliseconds. It jammed into my hand like a full swing of a baseball bat. The 2x4 completely exploded into 7 pieces. To this day I distinctly remember that instant, shocked, sick, sinking, feeling, probably swimming in Adrenalin where I was unsure if I was maimed or possibly even dead. Turned out I'd only bruised my hand and chest. Scary as hell.

You clearly went further! So glad you're on the recovery path!

I have little doubt the Fentanyl and morphine dorked with your heart-rate. Fentanyl alone kills 38 people a day.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

As I think you have had enough nice sympathetic comments and more than likely need a smile.....

Is it your bum wiping hand?

BTW I think you had a shunt fainting coupled with low blood sugar. They used to warn us about it in the army with upper body injury's there is a tendency to keep the person upright because they can walk.

Have a google for Vagal response and vasovagal reflex.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Ouch, been there. I crushed the end of a finger to the first knuckle, wrapped it up and drove myself to the hospital.

RE: Saw table, ugh

With a powerful tablesaw, if the blade wants to kick the piece back, a push stick will not help much. You can get special blades that minimise the likelihood for kick back.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

Get well, Chris. I've had a few scares with power tools, but mostly have avoided any significant damage. They do demand respect, and at times, a re-evaluation of how you are using them.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (dik)

With a powerful tablesaw, if the blade wants to kick the piece back, a push stick will not help much. You can get special blades that minimise the likelihood for kick back.
His hand was deflected (sideways) into the blade when the piece kicked back/up... not having your hands on the piece being cut significantly decreases the likelihood of getting your hands into spinning metal as they remain far behind.

Pinched wood or stressed wood being relieved by the cut are the main causes of kickback, so while a specially tuned blade may reduce the chances, it's a far cry from any real minimization. Just assume kickback is going to happen and apply appropriate safety guards. Chris said he had safety guards in place, but I'm willing to bet kickback pawls weren't one of those items. What about a riving blade?

A SawStop would certainly have reduced the flesh damage, but it wouldn't stop the kickback, and the board would still fly unless all of the safety devices were in place. I remember my first use of a radial arm saw decades ago, using a dado blade... board twisted, stack caught the board and swiped it right out of my hands. Thankfully my father was there to show me how to properly hold the boards, so if the blade caught (as in my case), the board gets sucked in and not my hands.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

I recently sold my table saw. I'm swapping to a track saw for cutting panels. I think it will be safer, easier, and save a lot of space.

RE: Saw table, ugh

can someone post a picture of the device your on about?



This is the one I got to share with the bother inlaw if its the same thing 3 phase.

RE: Saw table, ugh

That appears to be a sawmill for ripping boards. A table saw has guides for a miter gauge and can be used for ripping, cross cut, mitering, beveling, and grooving.

RE: Saw table, ugh

You mean something more like this.



I think a cross-cut saw is a safer choose if you need one for cutting.



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

I've got both. The sliding compound mitre saw (your second one) is definitely the least frightening of the two. Mine has also got a little laser pointer which is a nice double check. However, the saw table can manage much bigger bits of wood.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Saw table, ugh

Typical.. I bought my first table saw last week. I was enjoying it!



Not so much now after Chris' escapade.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

Set up some stands after the saw like the ones in Alistair's picture. It will make you a lot less likely to kick back if you're not also trying to keep the board from tipping as it leaves the saw.

RE: Saw table, ugh

RedSnake,

My table saw is very similar or identical to the DeWalt one you are showing there. I like the power switch. It takes two very deliberately placed figures to turn on, and it is very easy to turn off. I read the manual, and I made the recommended feather boards (out of knotty pine unfortunately) and an extra push stick. I don't have the stand. I sit it on a convenient table. When I position the saw, I disconnect power and I hold the AC plug in my hand. I never raise the saw above the fence. I use the push sticks so that I do not place my hands over the table.

No problems so far.

--
JHG

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Here is my table saw with the setup and actual board I was cutting. Sorry for the graphics, shows some blood.
The plywood in back was not there during incident.
I think what happened was I was pushing the board just to the right and the corner fell through the opening of the table, somehow flipping it up. The guard should have stopped it, but didn't.
The board was the other way, hence the cut on the edge. I just threw it on there for this pic.


ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Btw. The riving blade was in place too. When I purchase the sawstop, I plan on buying the rollers that mount on the fence to hold down the material.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Red... two main types of cuts... one parallel to the grain and one perpendicular to the grain. The former is called a rip saw and the latter is called a cross-cut saw. The second saw you posted it typically called a mitre saw. The first one you posted was typically called a table saw and most of those posted are table saws. A couple missing are the radial arm saw and the band saw. The table saw is generally stiffer and is used for finer cuts. My old General was a very rigid and fairly powerful table saw. If you weren't careful, it would toss pieces across the garage, just like Chris encountered.

My brothers and myself used our dad's tablesaw when we were in gradeschool. We'd cut up scrap lumber and stack it for firewood in the winter. No real problems... my brother Doug squared the tip of one of his fingers... about 1/16".

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Alistair,
Hahaha! Yes, wiping hand. A real pain to do things left handed. Feel stupid trying to brush teeth left handed. Lol

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

My brother in law is a carpenter hence the industrial size machine we got. I do use it but its mainly him. He sticks metal weights on some bits as they go through. And there is rollers which he uses. He won't use the portable sized saws. Says they jump and are dangerous. That one is raw bolted to the floor. He builds saunas, houses and the like using it. 6 meter cuts are normal. Not furniture and the like.

He also has an old soviet plank cutter which I won't go near even with the power cable out. It just looks ripe for cutting your leg off or getting a face full of log.

I tend to use the cross cut which is way way safer unless the size dictates otherwise.

I am glad my comment made you smile ctopher, its more luck than anything else which so far I haven't had something similar happen to me in my life. I have had a fair share of near misses. So I have colossal amounts of sympathy for you.

RE: Saw table, ugh

15 years ago, I messed-up my Right shoulder (shredded a tendon that they had to replace with a section of cadaver tendon) and I couldn't use my arm for about six weeks or so.


February 2007 (Canon IXUS V)

When you've never used your Left hand for things like brushing your teeth, combing your hair and a couple of other personal hygiene 'tasks', it was a very awkward time.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

Well I do have a assortment of saws like this, plus a bunch different ordinary manuell old fashion saws and a chainsaw (never used it though, don't have the proper education for that one and not the clothing that go with it)



At school we where allowed to use the bandsaw from 7th grade we have one at work too, that one I use when needed.
Haven't had any accidents this far.

A coworker bought a large house that he was renovating.
He bought a saw like this, he thought it was really good for cutting large wood panels, looks quite safe too.
His philosophy was that he bought really high quality special machinery and when he was finished he sold it, he could have rented it too, but it would probably have been the same money.




“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

My problem is I am rubbish at doing straight lines. The BIL even with 5 beers inside him can make 5 pencil marks on a 6 meter length of wood and then use the hand circular saw and its perfectly straight. And if he is trying to match a none straight fitting he takes a few finger measurement's with his pencil and 9/10 it fits perfectly first time.

I know my limits and its cheaper to feed him beer than me waste wood.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Actually this reminds me. Need to make a stand for my 128 cm straw archery boss.

RE: Saw table, ugh

I used to hate hand saws until (Red, you're going to appreciate this) I bought a Bahco Superior handsaw. Once you use a sharp saw it will change your entire perspective. I most recently ripped a 4x8 x 3/4 plywood sheet. It was a workout but only took a few minutes.

With a decently toothed saw you get to focus on direction and angle as less energy is spend bludgeoning your way through the board. This gives hope for a straight cut.

I just bought a Bahco backsaw and have sworn by their hacksaw for a decade. Their price is right, too. $15-30. They're a carryover of the legendary Sandvik saws.

RE: Saw table, ugh

thumbsup2
Our biggest produce was wood and steel before the big industrial era so, it was natural to develop good saws.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

I'll have to get a picture of the tooth profiles but Home Depot sells DeWalt saws. They cut fast and clean like the Bahco but the profile of the Bahco tooth cuts gently in reverse. This is important because it lets you square your cut before you put the power to it.

The back saw is symmetrical so cute the same push or pull. The Japanese are unique with their catalog of pull saws. I've never used one

RE: Saw table, ugh

Alistairs project reminded me I have a project on my own, making a saw-buck.



I have an old "arc" saw that I use for saw timber, it is probably as old as me if not older it is like cutting hot butter using it. smile



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

I do have new 8 TPI saw I got some birthday, but I think I will buy a 10-12 TPI, it makes for nicer cuts and easier starts, the 8 TPI is better for fast not so "important" cuts.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Watch out for band saws! Apparently they are the tool injury King.

I suspect since they are pretty quiet and nothing much seems to be going on with them people quickly get lackadaisical around them.


Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

That's why he's now wiping his a8se with his left hand....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Keith, the saw you posted looks like it has the anti-kickback pawls, but verify the riving knife is in place. I would definitely fill up that empty area between the fence... defeats the purpose of being adjustable, I know, but it's a recipe for disaster (as Chris found out). At a minimum, place a 2x4 just to the left of the fence so if you are tempted to press down on a board next to the fence, you won't push it down through the opening... might keep a bit of adjustability that way, but make it (somewhat) safer.


Red, Sliding/plunge saws are definitely safer than table saws, but their purposes are vastly different... you'll never get a panel through a slider/plunge saw wink

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

Dan; Certainly my saw has that exact same hole in it unlike a big fixed saw. On the other hand I can easily move this one with even one hand and sure couldn't move a big one.

Problem with filling that hole is every cut would demand a different filler.
What if I always use the pusher on the right side of the still-on-the-table material?

I actually had enough trouble trying to figure out how to install the riving knife because I wanted the blade only the tooth height above the wood. I used none of the safety stuff during my one time use. (What could go wrong?)


Little; I don't see a direct correlation demanded on which hand was pushing the material verse which got chewed on.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

MacGyver
I must be missing something ponder or you are teasing me. winky smile

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Making the guide into an L should be enough. The whole hole doesn't need filled, the wood is against the guide so a bottom piece at the guide would be enough to hold it up. I'm pretty sure there are some saws with a guide system that does that, I just can't name any particular brand at the moment.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Bosch, Makita, Metabo, Black and Decker.. maybe not much of an L but it is there.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (MacGyverS2000)

At a minimum, place a 2x4 just to the left of the fence so if you are tempted to press down on a board next to the fence, you won't push it down through the opening

Quote (LionelHutz)

The whole hole doesn't need filled, the wood is against the guide so a bottom piece at the guide would be enough to hold it up.
^^^ This is what I was suggesting... a short piece of board along the entire fence to prevent you from pressing it below the fence bottom. You'd lose a couple of inches in adjustability, but that's no biggie, especially given the extra safety factor it provides.

The riving knife should travel with the blade, so once installed, it's only as high as the blade top. Ideally the knife thickness should match the blade thickness.

Quote (RedSnake)

I must be missing something ponder or you are teasing me. winky smile
No teasing... you suggested the slider was safer (which it is), but you can't use it for the type of work Chris was doing (large panels).

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (MacG)

No teasing... you suggested the slider was safer (which it is), but you can't use it for the type of work Chris was doing (large panels).
ponder Of course you can cut large boards/panels with it, that is exactly what it is made for or are we not talking about the same thing here. ponder

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (I just bought a Bahco backsaw and have sworn by their hacksaw for a decade.)


I used to have a beautiful 100+ year old, 32 pt. backsaw and about 20 years back, my grandson tried to cut the concrete landing with it. He destroyed a nicely engraved/etched blade and nicely carved wooden handle. It was a beautiful 'work of art'... cut hundreds of dovetails with it...cry

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
I was pushing with my right hand, the injured one. I still can’t figure out how it ended up across the table into the blade, with a blade guard. Happened very quick.
The two tools that have always made me nervous are router tables and band saws. I have seen accidents with them. Expose too much band saw blade and it can bend and whip into your arm.
The router can grab and throw. If you don’t have a push block your hand can go into the blade. I once saw a router bit break and drop onto the table, still spinning full speed. It looked like it was just sitting there. The operator started to grab it when I stopped him.
Always use push sticks and push blocks. I should have been using a push block, I didn’t. It probably would have saved me.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

That reminds me of one of my other restoration projects, a Stanley miter-box that was manufactured in 1947 (I inherited this from my father and he still had the manual that came with it and the hand-written store receipt was still in it):


July 2016 (Sony a6000)


September 2016 (Sony a6000)

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (ctopher)

The two tools that have always made me nervous are router tables and band saws.
Jointers... they'll take entire hands to half height before the pain kicks in. Those scare me.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

If you liked that one, you'll love this, a 1/4 inch rabbet plane that I restored, another tool I inherited from my father:


September 2016 (Sony a6000)


September 2016 (Sony a6000)


October 2016 (Sony a6000)


October 2016 (Sony a6000)

Note that I've handed-down these restored tools, the miter-box and the rabbet plane, to our #2 son, who's getting into woodworking in a big way.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

I did get a rabbet plane for Christmas. smile
Not as nice as that one though. sad
I sade I wanted on, maybe a bit larger and heavier then I expected, haven't tried it yet so I don't know how usable it will be.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Dan, those too! I have seen jointers throw wood across shops.
John, very nice! Love it

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

In the image below, you can see that this rabbet plane was manufactured by Winchester, yes, the same people who make rifles:



From the research that I did at the time that I was restoring it, I learned that Winchester, during the early to mid-1920's, after WWI, was looking to diversify away from gun manufacturing (they seemed to have bought into the idea that WWI was the "war to end all wars") and since their guns all had wooden stocks, they had acquired as a company a certain level of expertise in the forming of wood, much of it done using hand planes. In fact, they had developed some very specialized planes and they decided to start manufacturing and selling woodworking tools, concentrating on planes of all sizes and uses, and being the 20's they produced tools with a very elegant appearance, as you could see in the that rabbet plane that I restored. Now they continued to develop this line of business up into the early 30's, but it was severely impacted by the depression, and while they tried to hang on, it was just too much and they shut it down after about 10 years. Of course, they were still manufacturing rifles and as the drums of war started up in Europe, they turned their attention back to their original line of business. However, since the planes that they had manufactured were of such high quality and they had that elegant appearance, they immediately became collectors items. Even today on Ebay, a Winchester plane, in good condition, can bring in anywhere from a hundred to several hundred dollars. Now these are usually the big bench planes...



...but even rabbet planes, like the one I had, are selling for $90 or more.

Note that while my father never actually told me this, it's quit possible that he had inherited the rabbet plane from HIS father since my grandfather once ran a small furniture manufacturing business in Monroe, Michigan in the years prior to WWII.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (I did get a rabbet plane for Christmas.)


Hassenpfeffer?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

No bigsmile But I do like rabbit if they have it on the menu when I go abroad I order it, last time I eat it was when I was to Malta.
In Sweden eating rabbit isn't common, I think it is because they got feed up with it after WII.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

I remember my programmer buddy Rick's mom referring to cats as ??? (I don't recall the word) which in German translated to Roof Rabbit...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

Dachhase maybe?

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Lionel!!

Quote:

L should be enough

Thanks for that thought!

My saw has that! If you look at the picture you can see it's just folded up over the top. I have Chris' new enforced respect for it and shall always use it hence forth.

Dan;

Quote:

riving knife should travel with the blade, so once installed, it's only as high as the blade top
I did not know this! I installed it with the blade all the way up then took it off and dropped the blade to 5/8" then tried to put it back on.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Had my Dr appt. She said come back in 3 weeks to get pins out. Return to work March 21.
Cardiologist appt on Feb 24.
Got disability setup.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

ctopher,

Well take it easy and don't do it again. smile

--
JHG

RE: Saw table, ugh

Oh and don't do any statics. You can't use the right hand rule.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Hehehehehee...lol

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

don't worry about the fainting thing I know two pilots that had something similar.

One a dentist managed to go right through the tooth into the bone with a drill doing root canal work without a local.

And the second one it was for a broken femur.

Both went through various tests and are flying again.

The dentist one it was very touch and go again until he saw some old senior ex military aero medical doctor. Who on his description of what he felt as his jaw was butchered started swearing about barber butchers and announced "that's as good enough excuse for vasovagal reflex as I have ever heard" I will give you a restriction of no invasive dental work to be carried out while flying. A week later his cert turned up with no restrictions.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Ouch! I’ve had a root canal. I couldn’t imagine doing that without a local.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (and are flying)


With or without an airplane? When I broke my ankle (turned 90 degrees) I had staples similar to John on both sides. I guess they needed real access to fix. Spent 2 weeks on fentenyl (sp?) and then a month on other pain killers for the next month. I was doing work from the hospital using my laptop and the internet.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

It was dry British mil humour.

And he more than likely did put on his medical records he was restricted flying a commercial aircraft while being subjected to dental procedures.

Which although an occasional filling comes out it's certainly not fixed in the air apart from temp dental fix putty which alot of us carry down route. Root canal work at 40k feet
Sitting operating an aircraft I have never heard of.

Which is the reason why I suspect the license side of things refused to put the restriction on because it would talked about world wide in aviation circles about what the clowns against aviation have done now.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Sorry to hear of your injury. I am sure its no consolation, but oldtimers used to say that a shortened finger or two was the mark of the professional woodworker, patternmaker, or cabinetmaker.

My father's second career was teaching high-school shop. He took over full time while student-teaching when the previous teacher lost a hand to a large, plugged dust collector. Life lesson #1 - lockout tagout is important in case a teenager tries to scare you by resetting the E-stop while you're working on a machine. It took about a decade for my father's first accident, in which the tablesaw ran through a pointer and thumb. A few surgeries later everything was reattached and normal except for nails growing on the very tip of each rather than on top. Life lesson #2 - avoid distractions like teens fistfighting in the shop. Fast forward another 10-15 of teaching followed by 20 of retirement, and his personal tablesaw finally claimed his thumb entirely. Life lesson #4 - nobody is immune from danger; not the guy who preached it daily to children, nor the one previously injured, nor the old man who's used these tools daily for 50+ years. Expect to pay big on the rare occasion you do something dumb, like wearing gloves while running machinery bc you're cold, old, and have poor circulation.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
I agree. Nobody is immune. Anything can happen to anyone, anytime.
Here is a YouTube video of a similar incident that happened to me. It does not show anyone being injured.
The difference is I had the blade guards in place, which have stopped it.
YouTube

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Dan;

Quote:

The riving knife should travel with the blade

I got my saw back out and you're correct the riving knife not only travels with the blade it would take a week to remove it since it's part of the mechanism. I realized today I was having issues with mounting the anti-kickback do-hicky to the factory installed riving knife. The riving knife is filled with holes, slots, and hole-slots.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

ctopher how is things coming along for you?
I was about to suggest that you could look for your heritage, now when got some time off.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

How's the paw healing? any damage to the nerves? or mobility? Hoping all's well and recovery is great.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Sorry, been away. Not on computer much.
Doing better thank you. Hand still wrapped up.
See Dr Monday for X-ray. If looks good, pins come out.
Saw cardiologist today. Go back next Thursday to do a couple tests, and stress test. They are concerned because my heart pressure dropped into 30’s-40’s during hand surgery.
Will update next week.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

I remember when my wife was in hospital... and the nurse let my grandkids 'play' with her stethascope. They checked me out, and they were pretty certain that I didn't have a heart.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

bigsmile Oohhh sorry to hear.. about your heart Dik.

Reminded me of this story here about a very well known gangster boss that the police and the prosecutors had tried to put behind bars for years, they finely decided to get him for tax evasion, it was the only thing they knew would stick.
But the trails toke a turn into the unexpected, apart from being a maffia boss he was also the first person in Sweden that got a mechanical heart, and since our laws at the time stated that the technical term for death was that your heart was "dead" it ment they couldn't convict him because he wasn't in legal terms "alive". rofl2
They have since changed it to brain dead.

Good to hear ctopher that it is going the right way. thumbsup2

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote:

couldn't convict him because he wasn't in legal terms "alive". rofl2
They have since changed it to brain dead.

I think that would make most of us immune to prosecution. Only the stupid get caught, right?

RE: Saw table, ugh

With apologies to Monty Python, "It got better..."

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (Only the stupid get caught, right?)


The novice bank robber, "OK you motherstickers, this is a f*ckup"

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Had my next Dr visit today to remove the pins. I asked the Dr to numb my fingers. He said no need to, they do this all the time, and to kids. Then he says "Hear that? The guy next door just had his pulled and he said he didn't feel anything". I told him "Well, did he have hid finger cut off and reattached?".
I asked him if he's ever stripped a wire. Nothing
He says not to worry. So, he grabs my hand. I can't watch. He cuts off the loop of the pin sticking out of finger, grabs it, pulls slowly. I feel pressure. Then gets really sore, then he pulls it out quick.
Then goes to next finger, it has two pins. The first pin was easy.
The second one comes out halfway, stops. Then, he grabs ahold, pulls hard.
%$!^&@!!! I yelled! Damn that hurt!!
It felt like the end of my finger was coming off again.
He says "Oh you'll be alright, you're fine".
Crap that hurt! Then blood started dripping out all over the floor where he was standing.
I hope he learned something from it.
It is still sore tonight.
I start PT next week.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

I had something similar to that with the little finger on my Right hand, only it was not because it had been cut but because I had broken the finger right in the first joint and if you don't keep the bones lined up while they heal it will 'sublux', which means that the tendons will just pull the end of the finger down over the joint until it slips up over the next bone in the finger. So they simply lined everything up and drilled a hole the length of my finger and stuck a pin in it and waited a couple of weeks and then they pulled it out:


December 1988 (Minolta XG-M)

Unfortunately, the procedure failed and they had to do actual surgery this time, and in addition to putting another even bigger pin in, they went inside the finger and threw a couple of 'hitches' of titanium wire around the broken joint to hold it all together while it healed. After a few weeks, they took the pin out, but left the titanium wire, which if I press on the side of my finger I can still feel it. The doctor said that they could've gone in and try to remove it, but that if it had fused to the bone, it's better just to leave it in place so that what we did. The first joint is basically rigid, but the second joint still bends OK, so it's hardly noticeable anymore.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (Had my next Dr visit today to remove the pins. I asked the Dr to numb my fingers. He said no need to, they do this all the time, and to kids. Then he says "Hear that? The guy next door just had his pulled and he said he didn't feel anything". I told him "Well, did he have hid finger cut off and reattached?".)


That's the time you grab him by the testicles and tell him, "This won't hurt either of us, will it?"

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

I'm glad your nerves don't appear to be affected. pipe

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Haha! M
Dik, good one!
John, reading your story made me hurt. Lol


ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Looks good, seems like everything is in place. smile
Thought I might say something about women and babies, but... hmmm I whish you good progress.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

One of my Flatmates at uni was a Nursing Student. He got to watch the neurosurgeons in action, he said the one with the best recovery rate literally put blood on the walls, had poor carpentry skills but an excellent bedside manner, while the other neurosurgeon took twice as long in surgery, did an incredibly neat carpentry work but had a poor bedside manner, had a comparatively poor recovery rate.

RE: Saw table, ugh

One of the lads on my course went to bioengineering and after 2 years did medicine because he was that fed up dealing with idiots that couldn't use a screw driver never mind a saw.

Last time I saw him he was pretty much hated by the others because he had 4-5 patents under his belt and none of the consultants got any of the action. He did most of his own FEA work as well.

His bedside manner was interesting... Most loved it but others didn't.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
The lead prod tech at work went to college for biology. He quit hallway through. Not sure why.

The Sr told me yesterday that my middle finger tendon was reattached and has not completely healed yet. I have to wear a splint so not to bend it. I’m out of work until end of March. Boring.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

CT, glad to hear that the healing progressing well.
Now you get to psych yourself up for PT.

The only thing that I have ever had pulled out (while awake) were chest drain tubes.
Even with 0.5cc Valium then had to remind be to start breathing again.
I don't want to know how they get 18" of tube wrapped around one lung.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

RE: Saw table, ugh

I was on fentanyl for 2 weeks, in the hospital... and another couple of weeks with heavy painkillers. I had no idea that people could feel that sort of pain. First time in hospital since a kid, having my tonsils out.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote:

I’m out of work until end of March. Boring.

Don't you have some woodworking you can do?

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Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Ed, that sounds painful! Couldn’t imagine a tube being pulled out!

My fingers are swollen today. Been sitting most of today with an ice pack.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Haha! I have plenty of woodworking to do. But, not until I get my new sawstop table saw. Soon…

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

You can learn from your mistakes... why not just use the old one? ponder

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (Thought I might say something about women and babies)


I remember half way through the birth of our youngest, my wife calling out to the midwife, "Theo, he's stuck!"

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

I've got a nice old General... and your's is too dangerous! pipe

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

Well you will at least have time for your heritages research, if you need a extra hand let me know. winky smile

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Ctop,

Sorry to hear about the incident but glad you are healing! I broke my wrist a couple years ago. I went to a wrist bender (physical therapist) which helped tremendously in recovering motion and strength. It helped me to know just how much force could be applied. If I had tried to do this myself I would never had applied that much force. I asked the therapist if anyone has ever hit her. She said no, but had a few people throw up on me.

Remember to do the therapy and keep us posted on your recovery. Heal fast!

RE: Saw table, ugh

Red.. you. are. evil.





Kwan is so right! Really work at exactly what the PT shows you.

Had a bad shoulder hurting me for over a year. Prednisone shots did nothing.

Physician's Assistant (an almost Doctor often better than doctors) gave me 6 exercises using a large 16oz can of tomato sauce to do twice a day for 6 weeks. My Physical Therapist wife made me do them all relentlessly. By 4 weeks all the pain was completely gone. It's never returned in 15 years.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

Yes, I had PT for my right knee and it allowed me to forgo having to have surgery. Five years prior to that, if I had had PT with my left knee I might have avoided surgery on it. Unfortunately, when I trashed my right shoulder, no amount of PT was going to save it (they had to replace a torn section of the supraspinatus tendon with a piece of cadaver tendon), but I spent weeks in PT after the surgery to regain full range of motion and strength.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Sorry, haven't been on computer much.
Fingers are healing quickly now. I can bend index finger a little, not middle finger. It will be a while before I can bend that one. So, may get into some fights. LOL
I will be ordering new Sawstop within next week or two.

Went to cardiologist yesterday. Stress test went well. Wearing a monitor for 24 hours. Go back next Thursday for follow up to talk about EKG and monitor. But, so far everything good.
I do cycling every weekend. I'm going to try to get back to it slowly next weekend.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Good to hear, you soon will be as good as new. smile

And even if itsmoked thinks I am evil winky smile, it was a genuin offer.

Have you gotten somewhere with your research?

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
RedSnake,
Thanks.
No, I have not started any research yet. I rarely touch any computer because it takes too long to type with one hand.
Maybe in a couple weeks.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

thumbsup2

If you like some help just say so, I will find a way to get you any information I can find without posting it here.
I am a nice person. winky smile

PS. Most of the time. winky smile

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (PS. Most of the time.)


That's how I imagined you...pipe

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

i remember the old joke about the double amputee typing in lower case letters only. he was using his nose and couldn't hit the 'shift' key at the same time. ponder

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

lol It is quite fantastic how they have managed to solv does kinds of problems today, whit computers that you can steer and typ on with eye movement or a blow pipe even connect it directly to never system. smile

Quote (Dik)

That's how I imagined you...pipe

About that they announced on work this week that they where going to start doing controls on people going home.

One earlier occasion this was done, and I was about to leave, (they need to be outside the gates otherwise you haven't done anything), there where two security guards and they asked if they could look in my handbag?
I sade, are I required to show you my handbag?
He sade no.
Which I already know, they need a search warrant for that, can only be given by a prosecutor and only for crimes that can give you more the 300 EUR fine or something like that.
Then I sade, then I will not show it to you.
Then I need to write down your name he sad.
Do I need to give you my name then?
No you don't.
Then I will not give it to you I sad and started walking you can write done that there was a blond really obstinat women that refused to give you here name, then they will all know who it is I sade.
Then they started laughing.
And that was that.

The second time around I did show them my handbag it is a small black leather backpack with a lot of compartments, when looking in it you cant really se or find anything because it is all black.
So I told the security guy, you know I did steal a welding machine some time a go but I can't seem to find it so if you see it ,let me know, then he and his partner started laughing. smile

With a bit of bad luck they might had found a company pen there, I guess they just need to do the job regardless how "stupid" it might look.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

I prefer to be honest and cooperative. Long time ago, I used to be based at a contractor's works where we were stopped at the gate fairly often. Conversation would go something like....

Good evening sir, just a random check please. Do you have any explosives or any Company tools or materials in your vehicle?

Hi Fred, Horrible weather tonight. No company tools or materials. Explosives are in the glove box.

Thank you sir, may I search the boot of your vehicle please.

<edit>but I digress</edit>

A.

RE: Saw table, ugh

bigsmile
Well I am always honest and almost always cooperative...
I think breaking the rules sometimes, makes me feel younger. tongue

It gets a bit silly sometimes tough, it was in the summer and there where no place to hide anything (no car involved) apart from the handbag and at most there could have been some hand tools, and if there where, they couldn't have proven it wasn't mine to begin with.
But I have complied more times then not, it is just fun the first times then it gets old..

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Zeus :D I think used the same guard house in my time.....

stared items in the holdall on the back seat and none ferric in the spare wheel holder....

Ahh thankyou Sir for being so cooperative, is it the same stuff as the last time you came through?

Yes mate and it will be coming back tomorrow at 7am..

Have a good evening sir safe journey.

RE: Saw table, ugh

RedSnake,

Many, many years ago, I was active on a bunch of electronic bulletin board system (BBS). These consisted of computers connected to modems, which we accessed through our telephones and our own modems. Unlike the modern internet, we could actually get together in bars and restaurants. Tracking down people you have never met before in a bar can be interesting.

On one such evening, my task was simplified because I knew that one of the members was blind and deaf. This was around 1990, and he had a braille terminal. I don't know if this technology would work now. Just about everybody on Facebook these days attaches graphics to their posts.

--
JHG

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote:

These consisted of computers connected to modems, which we accessed through our telephones and our own modems. Unlike the modern internet, we could actually get together in bars and restaurants.

Seems a bit backwards from here, I had a computer and modem at home during the 90th only forum then was ICQ.
Then there where no where to use a computer in a café or restaurant, today you can get a wireless connecting in almost all of them.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Sorry, been away from computer for last almost two weeks.
PT every other day. Fingers doing better. Still stiff, but I can do more. Middle finger tip still numb.
Cardiologist appointment today, all good. Got green light to do more. Will start back cycling in couple days.
Sold table saw yesterday, will be ordering new Sawstop next weekend.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Glad things are on the 'up and up'. Take care, Chris...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

They should put a blood lice leech on the numb fingertip getting the circulation going. thumbsup2
Glad to hear that it's moving in the right direction. bigsmile

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

leech is the English word for what your on about reds. It translates to lice as well in Estonian. I was confused as well when my lot were going on about lice in the pond. Then I saw what they were on about.

RE: Saw table, ugh

And you're is the correct word you're on about Alistair.


ctopher; Did you have to discount heavily for the blood spatter all over the saw?

Grin swivel
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Really glad things are going forward well for your healing man!

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

Well it's the google translate it ain't that smart. lol

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

:D fair call I am crap at English grammar.

Its the same in Finnish as well apparently.

Our farm bit of Estonia local dialect I have been told has Swedish in the mix. When my Mrs came to Lapland when I was working up there she was yattering away to the locals. What lingo you using?

H'mm bit of everything.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Yes, Estisk is a Finno-Ugric language.

And in Sweden apart from Swedish we have five minority languages, Finnish, Meänkieli (Tornedalian Finnish), Sami (Sáme-Giella), Yiddish and Romani chib.
Finnish, Meänkieli (Tornedalian Finnish) and Sami (Sáme-Giella) are also Finno-Ugric languages.

Finno-Ugric languages in Europe



This is the areas where they where spoke Old Norse in viking times so I guess there are words that are the same today in Swedish and Estnisk that comes from that.



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Thanks all.
Yes, discounted saw. Paid about $300 several years ago. Sold it for $175.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
itsmoked,
I'm going to the store this weekend to purchase one. I don't know if they will have what I want in stock or order one.

I had another Dr appt. They took new x-rays of fingers. My index finger, the bone at the tip has curved up. The joint was cut halfway, so will not grow together correctly.
My middle finger is 1/8" shorter, the joint is destroyed. I can move that knuckle slightly. But, it will be that way forever. It's still stiff and swollen. They said it will be a few months before it gets better.
I can start to do stuff now. Just can't pull with middle finger.
I was given the green light by all Dr's to go on with life. winky smile
So, these past couple days I installed a water softener at our house. Wife said if I get the saw, she wants that. hahaha
I go back to work Friday April 1. I'm trying to figure out a April fools joke for coworkers. I'm thinking of looking for a realistic finger I can wear around my neck.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

absolutely brilliant, and good that you can have a laugh at your own expense about it.

I seem to remember that it is a sign of a healthy mind!

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (I seem to remember that it is a sign of a healthy mind!)


or a really sick one? pipe

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

thumbsup2 haha

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

you can't improve on your attitude...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Hand day of cut (middle finger was moved back to position), hand today 7 weeks later.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

looking good!

And nothing on my old woodwork teachers hand.

RE: Saw table, ugh

You're really lucky cris... could have been a bunch worse.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
I saw other patients in the Dr office with saw injuries. One guy lost his hand. Yes, I was very lucky!

Alistair,
That looks fun! Unfortunately I would be able to make it.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Careful the horseshoes don't kill you... pipe

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

looking better, Chris. Keep it up.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Thanks. Purchased my new SawStop PCS this weekend. Waiting for the mobile base to come in next week, then assembly.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

I have been following this thread with interest because my 30 year old nephew came very close to losing all the fingers on one hand about two years ago. Of course as a youngster , he wont take advice from his old uncle. However the following came to my attention and it seems to be a major safety improvement.

https://www.amazon.ca/SawStop-TSBC-10R2-Cartridge-...


Is this what we are talking about or is this technology ne to this forum???

RE: Saw table, ugh

that's extremely impressive thanks for that video

RE: Saw table, ugh

My only beef with SawStop is that they are owned by patent trolls.
They bought this patent and have enforced it aggressively broadly.
Basically preventing any other saw blade braking system that uses electrical sensing and a mechanical brake from being sold.
I hope that whoever they hired to build the saws is doing a good job.
I like the technology.
I wish that my large router had it.
That machine makes table saws look safe.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
itsmoked,
36" extension.

miningman,
That price for the cartridge is crazy! I paid about $85 at Rockler.

EdStainless,
The enventor of SawStop: Link

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Well in fairness to the manufacturer, this would appear to be a MAJOR improvement in YOUR safety and as such they cam and and will charge whatever the market can bear.. I think its available locally in the better woodworking shops so one does have some choices.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Nice saw, Chris. Wish I had room! Mine is a Ridgid contractor portable....works, but not the greatest! My son grabbed my Ryobi...which was better, but as you all know when the kid takes a tool....it never comes back!

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
The saw I was injured on was also a Ridgid contractor portable (see pic beginning of post).
I heard SawStop was working on/testing their technology to use on portable tools, and routers. It's difficult because of size and speed.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

I've made very few cuts with a table saw that can't be made with a track saw. I sold my table saw, and I don't plan to ever go back...

RE: Saw table, ugh

I tried to say but the guys don't listen to us girls. sad winky smile
I would get one of those if I needed to and then one of these.



Then you can fix most things.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

I want a Makita 18v one of them reds

RE: Saw table, ugh

Having made 'fine furniture', there is nothing like a good table saw for rigidity... my old General is like a 'brick'.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

I'm kind of partial to the Ryobi system (they were a customer of ours when I was still working).

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
I also bought a DeWalt circ saw with a brake, corded.
I didn't want to spend $500+ for a track saw, just spent a lot on the table saw.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

I have Ryobi, one drilling machine and one compressor maybe not the most ergonomic and finnesed when it comes to design, but the best batteries, and for what I need it works just fine.
And it is "cheap" since you can buy the batteries and the machine parts separat.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Hmmm not sure about that.. at least you must have seen one, if you saw my post 9 Feb 22 06:06

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Well I can't know all your special technical terms. lol

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

I am just doing building work when I use them.

The table saw we use the big one that's bolted to the floor. But that can do 5 meter lengths easy.

That portable one will be used where getting a cable to the work place is a pain.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
New saws. Took me and my son about 3.5 hours to assemble SawStop. Damn thing is heavy!

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

looks solid...

Hope you have hours of blood free fun producing things with it.

And I susepct you will never have to use the sawstop feature on it :D.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
LOL
Thanks. I hope I will never activate it.
I plan on making a lot of cabinets, and other stuff.
My son helped me assemble it. I told him it's good he knows how it went together because one day it will be his.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

I have tried to behave... haven't asked about your bum wiping status.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
LOL.
Now back to using right hand, much better.
Was a PITA using my left hand. tongue

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Aye especially if you had your fingers pinned with spikes of metal coming out of them. Picking your nose would have caused issue as well.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Sliding table saws are very common in Europe. That is what I have. My brother had an accident in high school with a table saw, and I finally convinced him to buy a slider. He is loving it. They are not cheap, but you clamp the goods down and push the material thru the cut. Felder

The festool track saw has some nice accessories for those building boxes. The NA market knocked off the Festool.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
The only time I have seen sliding table saws were in a high output facilities. Some companies that make mass qty of furniture, etc.
I have never heard of anyone using one for home use. Is this common in Europe?

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (Ron)

but as you all know when the kid takes a tool....it never comes back!
I've told my dad that I call this the borrow to own agreement. I borrow his tools, now I own them.

RE: Saw table, ugh

Yea, the only places that I've seen anything like that is at Home Depot if you need them to cut to size a piece of plywood or something.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Saw table, ugh

I am not in the EU. It is unlikely that sliders are common for hobbiests there given the size of most homes, but you find them in small shops. The most common length shops like is the 10'-0" table. With those you can cut a full sheet and have clamps at each end if you like. The problem with a 10'-0" slider is they require around 20'-0" of floor space to operate. My slider has an 80" stroke and there are smaller versions that have a 50" stroke too. One of the more affordable sliders is the Hammer from Felder. If you want the absolute finest machine you look at the Martin saws. Some of those go for $60k. There are a number of retired guys all over the US that have those for hobby work. You can find many on any of the woodwork forums.

A sliding saw is used by tons of small shops for general woodworking, but if you get into much larger production you will see more CNC equipment or Beam saws. I work with a general contractor that has a small cabinetry division and they found a used one over a decade ago.
Beam Saw

Vertical panel saws are useful for one task and material type, so they are good for Home Depot. They were common for many shops at one time, but most have moved to high speed CNC's with outfeed tables.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
John,
That reminded me. A couple months ago my son went to Home Depot to buy some plywood. He needed it cut.
My son is an engineering professor (PhD).
He could not find anyone in the store that knew how to run the saw.
The manager asked my son if he knew, he said yes.
They gathered some employees around and had a short training session, while he cut his own plywood.
He should have got the plywood for free or at a discount, but they wouldn't do it.
ugh

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote:

They gathered some employees around and had a short training session, while he cut his own plywood.

In some respects, that's a consequence of so many people having their own tools and catering to contractors who don't need things cut at the store. They generally only have one person that really knows how to use the various equipment in the store because the demand is actually pretty low. Teaching a bunch of people to use the equipment that wind up not using it very often can lead to safety issues because they forget all the stuff they were taught.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Saw table, ugh

I am actually quite looking forward to pics of what he makes with it....

I know my skill level couldn't do carpentry . And I love see peoples work who can...

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
IRstuff, I agree.
When I was having my regular Dr appointments for my hand, I heard from nurses, Dr's, and patients that most of the table saw injuries were because they: removed blade guard, do not use push sticks, wear gloves, leave power on when moving stock or adjusting, etc. Just like riding a bike, no real training, just here it is and...good luck!

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Be sure to post some build pics of what you build with that fine machine. I have built a ton of different things over the years, and it is a great hobby. My apology for going off topic so far.

The design of the common guard in NA is not great. NA shops use a dado joint in many applications. To make dado cuts you need to take off the guard. We also all love to make sleds, and those rarely work with a guard. Being males, we are not always good at putting them back on. The dado joint for cabinetry is not used in the EU and except for companies exporting to NA, you will not find a machine with a shaft that will accept a dado stack like we use here.

Your original saw had more of what is called a splitter and not a real riving knife. The thickness of a riving knife should be equal or be a tad wider than the kerf of your blade so it stops kick back if you relive internal tension in the wood while cutting. That does not happen cutting sheet goods, but I have seen it endless times when straight lining rough stock (properly dried cabinet grade stock). Riving knives also move with the blade so it is not in the way of many cuts. It took forever, but many NA suppliers have added proper riving knives. After cuts, kick back related injuries are the most common. I have a number of rules each day to decide if it is a woodwork day.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
I use the riving knife.
I will be building cabinets for bathroom and kitchen. Will post pics when complete.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

careful and have fun...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
This past week I finally got to using my new table saw. Love it! Works great.
I tried to salvage the wood that had blood all over them, because of lumber cost. Lightly sanded. The stains will be on the backside against the wall. winky smile
The boards were slightly damaged on the edges, but I think will be covered up.
I have 2 cabinets built, I now need to make the maple face frames, and two upper drawers to go between the cabinets (open below them).
Going slow at it. I have to take breaks because my fingers start to swell and go numb from using them.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Good start, looks great. thumbsup2

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Careful when you use the drill... you know what can happen. ponder

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (ctopher)


This past week I finally got to using my new table saw. Love it! Works great.
I tried to salvage the wood that had blood all over them, because of lumber cost. Lightly sanded. The stains will be on the backside against the wall.

This will make a great story on the Antiques Roadshow.

--
JHG

RE: Saw table, ugh

Yes, you need to write down the story on the backside or inside, so it will be preserved for the future, it gives it provenance. bigsmile

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

Looks great! Clearly, into this project, you're putting a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Thanks. Yes, and I will be building the drawers using finger joints.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (Clearly, into this project, you're putting a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.)


It adds a whole new meaning to the expression.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Just an update.
Taking a long time because I'm still working slow with numb fingers.
Completed build. Now, lots of sanding, then poly clear coat.
(the leg in center is not part of cabinet)
Learned a lot.
When complete, I will try a epoxy counter top. Will be first time making one. If it doesn't work out, I will buy a marble slap countertop.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Lovely work, Chris...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

bigsmile Yes, looks really professional. thumbsup2

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Thank you.
When the finish is dry, I will be gutting the bathroom. I have to get help, probably son and daughter.
I threw my back out 3 weeks ago helping my son build his cabana (heavy).
They said they'll help removing tile/walls/floor from bath.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

that looks utterly brilliant. You should be rightly proud of yourself.

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Thanks. It turned out better than expected. bigsmile
I'm happy parts fit together.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Saw table, ugh

Quote (I'm happy parts fit together.)


Ikea? I didn't see any allen screws. ponder

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Saw table, ugh

(OP)
Pocket hole screws.
Cheaper than Ikea.
With the high cost of lumber, it was still cheaper for me to build the cabinet than purchase them complete.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

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