Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
(OP)
I have a question on how to properly call out a weld that our manufacturing team has been doing for decades. The symbol does not seem to be correct to me, so I am looking to update the drawings if it makes sense.
This is a flange welded to the end of a tube using TIG with no filler - a fusion weld. There is a small step between the ID of the tube, and the ID of the flange bore. It is currently called out as a fillet weld with 50% penetration, as they have trouble controlling distortion if they penetrate all the way through the tube wall.
A fillet weld does not seem correct since there is no filler to add material and actually form a fillet, but I am having trouble finding guidance on this one. Is this a variation on a tee weld or another type?
Pictures attached.


Thanks in advance for any help!
E
This is a flange welded to the end of a tube using TIG with no filler - a fusion weld. There is a small step between the ID of the tube, and the ID of the flange bore. It is currently called out as a fillet weld with 50% penetration, as they have trouble controlling distortion if they penetrate all the way through the tube wall.
A fillet weld does not seem correct since there is no filler to add material and actually form a fillet, but I am having trouble finding guidance on this one. Is this a variation on a tee weld or another type?
Pictures attached.


Thanks in advance for any help!
E
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Fillet symbol seems most correct here. Indicate 'autogenous' in tail?
What's the other option? Some sort of 90° groove weld w/ no root? (this seems like it would be more confusing)
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
In such cases just add sufficient notes in the tail to fully describe it, adding a sketch if necessary.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Agree. this is the proper term for a weld without filler metal - autogenous; don't call this type of weld a fusion weld.
Agree with the above posts to describe the weld as best as practicable in the tail of the welding symbol.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Add depth of penetration required (mm or ")to left of symbol.
Add "Autogenous" in tail as noted previously
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
I'd like to see a photo of the end product.
I'd even more like to see a section of the end product.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
I think the welders/engineers who documented previously did not call out the penetration properly (with a dimension vs. a %) to make it easier to apply in any situation. Maybe a little lazy in my opinion.
I won't be able to send photos unfortunately.
After my initial research, I had considered that a groove weld was the right symbol, but got hung up on the lack of a prep feature. I suppose a square weld is technically a groove weld also, but that also did not seem right.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
That sounds like the best route to me. Alternatively, you could add the depth of penetration next to the weld symbol as DekDee suggested, although you will probably have to explain that one to anyone reading the drawing (many people don't know how to interpret it). I believe (going off of memory here) that depth of penetration is noted in parentheses. It may just be easier to note it in the tail.
The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Yes, that is exactly where my thinking leads me. I agree with ironic metallurgist that the (imagined) end result likely looks like a partial penetration groove weld.
Also, I think that "autogenous" is incomplete, because that allows for filler that is identical to the base material, where you want to explicitly state no filler.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
MintJulep, the term autogenous in regards to welding means no filler metal used.
An autogenous weld made on this "corner joint" (at least defined that way in ASME) will result in the look of a fillet weld, even if filler metal is not used. I would leave the fillet symbol.
The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Edit: This is figure 21 in the AWS A2.4-2007. I don't have access to later versions.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
So with this information, and as shown in (c), the correct way to detail the subject weld joint is without the fillet symbol, and the depth of penetration shown in parentheses. Additional information can be noted in the tail, such as GTAW and "autogenous".
The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
The correct way to detail the subject weld joint may be confusing to people not familiar with welding symbols. Alternatively, you can always simply give a detailed sketch of what is required in the weld joint to eliminate any possible confusion.
The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Regards
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
On thin tube the entire wall thickness is consumed, while on thicker tube it is common to limit the width of wall consumed.
In either case there is nearly always a requirement for a plug gauge to be used to check to assure that there is no obstruction of the ID.
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Best regards - Al
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
You have my vote.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Regards
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
I see these done in Code equipment with <0.1mm gap frequently.
When it is just for fixing or sealing, I am not sure that those rules apply.
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
We do not know details of (OP): CODE, dimensions, materials, pressure/temperature, etc.
This sketch is like a socket weld. The 1.5mm gap is to allow free expansion of the tube during welding and to prevent cracking.
Regards
RE: Symbol for fillet weld with no filler?
Yes his is more like a socket weld so some gap is prudent.
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed