×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Winding configuration question

Winding configuration question

Winding configuration question

(OP)
Hello Folks

We let the smoke out of a 230V Drive cooling fan motor, one leg is neutral the other 230VAC for a Heidelberg printing press . Sent it out for rewinding and it came back looking really nice however when I energized it, no joy! It just hummed and I felt resistance while nudging it in either direction, it behaves like the fields are working against each other, otherwise while not energized manually it spins real nice. Should we have made ourselves more clear about it being a European motor? Could they possibly have wound it differently assuming it was a NEC application where the two legs are hot and this might require a different winding configuration then one leg hot?

Chuck

RE: Winding configuration question

Sounds like it
most Europe N/Fas 230V AC 50 Hz,
US N/Fas 120V AC 60 Hz

Did it not say that on the motor plate?

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Winding configuration question

Single phase or three phase motor?
Single phase or three phase supply?
Is there a Variable Frequency Drive involved?
Motor Horsepower?
Can you give us a picture of the motor nameplate? (Use the Image icon to upload a picture.)

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Winding configuration question

Looks like single phase capacitor motor with failed capacitor?

Muthu
www.edison.co.in

RE: Winding configuration question

True story -- we bought a custom 3-phase motor from a small shop for a project and couldn't get it to run, so we decided to check the phasing against the color-coded drawing that they were supposedly built to. AHA, they ignored the color coding and it resulting in the incorrect phasing. OK, no biggie, right? BUT, it turned out that all THREE motors had different color codings on the phases.

Of course, it could be the capacitor was also freed of some smoke winky smile

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Winding configuration question

So far, there is not enough information about the type/kind of motor.

In haphazardly answering the OP's questions without knowing the above, here are some answers:

Should we have made ourselves more clear about it [the motor] being a European motor?

Answer:

The motor's origin has nothing to do with the rewinding of the motor.

A motor winder relies upon what they find in the slots for their rewind project.
The country of origin has no factor attributed to it's repair.

Could they possibly have wound it differently...?

Answer:

Yes.

(But did they?)
The audience here will never know.

But here's another "but".

In this 21st century of everything under a microscope, what motor repair shop would repair a motor and not test run it before
releasing it to the customer?

John

RE: Winding configuration question

(OP)
Hello Gents,

Single phase, no vfd, no capacitor, no data for HP attached is pic of data plate the portion shown is for cooling fan motor.

Chuck






RE: Winding configuration question

Okay.

Which motor is within the scope of the discussion?

The motor pictured with the clean fan blade, or the motor shown with an aluminum stator housing?

John

RE: Winding configuration question

I'll put in a vote for the rotor being off axial center with the stator.
That may cause a loss of torque and an end thrust that nay be causing some binding.
This may be a shaded pole motor and not have much starting torque at the best of times.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Winding configuration question

Shaded pole motor with missing shading ring? Did you try turning the rotor CW/ACW by hand when power is applied?

Muthu
www.edison.co.in

RE: Winding configuration question

CW/ACW, Clock Wise or Anti Clock Wise.
On this side of the big water CW/CCW, Clock Wise or Counter Clock Wise is often used.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Winding configuration question

I can't see how many leads come out from the motor and how they are connected to a single-phase network (or two-phase)?
The motor plate states that the motor is three-phase. What about that?

RE: Winding configuration question

Yes three phases 230 VAC 50 Hz and a break 24 V ?? and a encoder ponder

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Winding configuration question

There are two nameplates. One on the left is for the 3-ph main motor 550 V (?) 1500 to 6000 RPM run by VFD with an encoder and hence the need for an external cooling fan driven by its own single phase motor, whose nameplate (220 V, 0.6 A etc.) is on the right. OP in his first post mentioned it's the cooling fan motor he has problem with.

Muthu
www.edison.co.in

RE: Winding configuration question

The plate isn't fully visible.

The right side of the plate it says
Motor 3 ~ phase
(Lufter) Fan, 230 V, 0,6 A, 50 Hz
(Breamse) Break, 24 V ??, 1,4 A, 40 Nm

There is nothing indicating on the plate that it is 1 phase.



/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Winding configuration question

Don't printing presses have brakes?

3-ph shown is for the main motor driven by VFD.

Going by two black supply wires, the cooling fan is single phase.

That's all I got.

Muthu
www.edison.co.in

RE: Winding configuration question

Not sure if what can be seen on the picture is two cables or three.
If the orange arrow also is a cable. ponder
But OP sade it was two, but without a capacitor it wouldn't work, but maybe it is placed inside the fan motor so it can't be seen?



/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Winding configuration question

By this point the best advice we can give you is to hire an expert or get someone from the motor hop to come out and check the motor.
And, by the way, a 50 Hz fan running on 60 Hz may be expected to fail sooner or later.
If the motor is oversized for the fan at 50 Hz, then it may be acceptable.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Winding configuration question

(OP)
Hello Gents

Redsnake, there is a three lead set for supply but one wire not used (not my design) good observation though. Edison, this particular Drive pulls paper off of a web roll so while motor is idle the brake keeps tension on paper. Bill, I have installed a lot of motors this should have been plug and play,we are sending it back to shop.

Chuck

RE: Winding configuration question

If that picture is from after the rewinding, maybe that is where the capacitor was suppose to go.
Have a hard time seeing how they could have missed it though.



Gents and girls. winky smile

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

RE: Winding configuration question

Also, could be 3ph winding connected to Y or D with 3 leads out , for single-phase use with external capacitor.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Resources

Low-Volume Rapid Injection Molding With 3D Printed Molds
Learn methods and guidelines for using stereolithography (SLA) 3D printed molds in the injection molding process to lower costs and lead time. Discover how this hybrid manufacturing process enables on-demand mold fabrication to quickly produce small batches of thermoplastic parts. Download Now
Design for Additive Manufacturing (DfAM)
Examine how the principles of DfAM upend many of the long-standing rules around manufacturability - allowing engineers and designers to place a part’s function at the center of their design considerations. Download Now
Taking Control of Engineering Documents
This ebook covers tips for creating and managing workflows, security best practices and protection of intellectual property, Cloud vs. on-premise software solutions, CAD file management, compliance, and more. Download Now

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close