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Hi Forum members, We experienced a
2

Hi Forum members, We experienced a

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

This is a good picture of the failure but it shows us nothing of the system.

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

And we need to know what alloy it is.
A wider angle photo showing the entire part would help also.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Is there supposed to be a slit/cut between the top sets of holes? If that is a crack, it's suspiciously straight...

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

was there any non destructive test during forming or manufacturing (eg heat treat, welding). verifying there was no indications before hand. look at manufacturing sequence and verify this.
from there as others said not enough information. start with the manufacturer. make a fish chart of possibilities of the failure. list any possible causes then eliminate them.
contact a metallurgical lab and discuss what they need for failure analysis.

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Attempting failure analysis by crowdsourcing based on a few pictures, you will get exactly what you pay for.
Retain a metallurgical laboratory or competent professional engineer.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

'fish chart'??? I've never seen a tear that pristine... any sort of seam underlying? Can you take a sample and review it microscopically? I don't know what facilities you have.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

From a manufacturing point of view, I'd venture to guess that the basket was roll formed and seam welded.
A failed weld might explain how straight the break is.
Then maybe add the misfortune of drilling holes right in the seam?
If you do take some more photos, see if you can get a view of the crack walls.

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

'fish chart' is indeed a thing.
As far as I have seen it is only practiced by MBAs in suits who have never pounded a shop floor for the manufacturers who remunerate them magnificently.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

I still don't know what a fish chart is... never heard the term...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Then don't ask! You haven't missed anything.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

curious mimes want to know...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

dik (Structural)8 Apr 21 16:25
I still don't know what a fish chart is... never heard the term...
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

here is the info if interested, for me with 45 years of experience it helps me focus on root cause.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishikawa_diagram#:~:....

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Thanks... I checked google for fish charts and ended up with 'fish'... nothing relevant...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Commonly referred to as 'fish bone chart'

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Thanks, Ed... I'd never heard of either... my sheltered existance, I guess.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

dik (Structural)8 Apr 21 17:29
Thanks... I checked google for fish charts and ended up with 'fish'... nothing relevant...

yes sorry and thanks ED for clarifying.
My brain has senior moments at times yes Fish Bone Chart

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

No Dik, you are just luck to have not been drawn into the whole QA/problem solving/root cause nightmare.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Without a clear picture of the entire fracture and the fracture surface, it's impossible to determine fracture initiation site and cause, in addition to the comments of others herein.

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

The fish bone chart looks like fishbones that includes the spine with all the little bones branching off. The possible causes of the failure would be listed by the little bones. One possible cause per bone. As mention, each cause would be considered and those not plausible struck off. It is a process of elimination to reduce the number of causes that need to be investigated further.

Some of these inquiries remind me of the old "Paul Harvey" radio show. I keep waiting to "hear the rest of the story".

Best regards - Al

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Fishbone charts are essentially tools for forcing you to think a problem through before you pronounce a root cause for whatever problem you're trying to solve. You have to have ALL the candidates before you can eliminate them.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

like a check list...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Fishbone diagrams (that is what you are really referring to) are used in FMEA (Failure Modes and Effects Analysis) as a detailed root cause failure analysis technique. This sort of evaluation is typically exhaustive because it considers every possible cause no matter how likely or unlikely.

As for this failure, this really needs a metallurgical evaluation first to identify failure mechanism and possible causes. We really cannot understand anything without getting that work done first.

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Fishbone or herring bone charts are also used in manufacturing to identify all of the manufacturing steps required to get a product out of the door. Every time a product or process is identified it is added to one of the bones. The head of the fish is the final product.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

I have seen straight-line cracks/fractures like this when a hole pattern was 'laid-out' using a tool-steel scribe with a needle sharp tip. Also I am assuming the 'free-edge' is 'up' somewhere nearby in the image... and I'll take a swing: the free-edge is NOT reinforced [stiffened/strengthened].

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

For sugar centrifugal machines,a pure Nickel basket is preferred. Rarely, we see stainless steel baskets used. I know, as this is an important source of pure Ni scrap for me.

RE: Hi Forum members, We experienced a

Guardiano. Fatigue? Due any kind of irregular vibration ? Meanwhile tell us what did you discovered.

regards

luis

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