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ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

(OP)
Dear Members,
Hope you are all well !

I am facing difficulty in finding the A-Number for a TIG rod Identified AS ( AWS A5.14| ERNiCr-3 ).I have to use it for welding of SS to C/S in a High Temperature Application. Checking our WPSs, I need to know the A-Number for that electrode to proceed
According to Table QW-442, ASME IX I need to compare the chemical composition with the table to know what A-No of weld metal is it.
Checking the table I found the max Ni % available is 37% While this rod (ERNiCr-3) has >67 & of Ni according to the manufacturer & AWS A5.14. I attached the tag on the rod box and the manufacturer data sheet.

Appreciating your help,
Thanks in advance.

RE: ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

A-Numbers only apply to ferrous metals. This filler metal would not be considered to be a ferrous metal considering the percentage of iron is less than 2%.

If these are single pass welds, there could be sufficient iron in the weld deposit to fall into an A-Number group due to the weld being diluted with CS base metal. ASME Section IX does include provisions to perform a chemical analysis on the deposited weld. If you suspect a high degree of dilution, the chemical analysis may provide the information you are looking for.

Best regards - Al

RE: ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

It has an F No. So look in ASME IX for it.

RE: ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

Filler metals, both ferrous and nonferrous can be assigned to a F number grouping. Again,to my recollection, A numbers only apply to ferrous filler metals.

A5.14/A5.14M:2018 SPECIFICATION FOR NICKEL AND NICKEL-ALLOY BARE WELDING ELECTRODES AND RODS

Best regards - Al

RE: ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

(OP)
@gtaw,
- Perfect as usual :D but what would you actually do if you were me in that situation ? follow the existing WPS ? or make a chemical analysis, or make a new WPS for that electrode ?
- Solutions and actions need to be taken and is there any references for those actions?


@weldstan
- I already know that it has an F Number but what made me ask is that on a WPS both the F-No and A-No are essential variables.
- Finding a F-No. will solve one essential variable, what about the other one? :)
- So what would you do in that situation with that WPS ?, I can attach the WPS if you want and inform about material.
- Thanks for your time and reply.

RE: ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

QW-404.5 - Designation of nominal chemical composition may also be by reference to the AWS classification.

RE: ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

In your case, if the existing WPS calls out an A-number, it is in error. Likewise for the supporting PQR. Revisions are in order to correct the incorrect information.

Take a look at QW-404.5. It states that it applies to ferrous metals. It lists several options for determining the A-number of a ferrous filler metal, one of which is a chemical analysis of the actual weld deposit (ref. 404.5(b). That would only be applicable if the base metals are dissimilar in which one is a ferrous base metal and there is sufficient dilution such the chemistry of the deposited weld metal meets the chemistry of of one of the A-number groups. Not likely unless single pass welds are used.

The A-number is an essential variable only if you are dealing with ferrous metals and or a ferrous filler metal. The WPS and PQR should simply list the A-number as "NA", i.e., not applicable.

If the ferrous filler metal doesn't meet an AWS/ASME filler metal specification or classification, the chemistry of the filler metal can be listed by the PQR and the WPS, but the WPS is limited to the filler metal chemistry recorded on the PQR.

Best regards - Al

RE: ASME SECIX - Problem finding an A-Number for a TIG Rod (AWS A5.14 | ERNiCr-3)

Since the filler metal is F-43m it can not be an A-No; thus the A N as an essential variable is moot. Only the F. No need be included as the essential variable in both the PQR and the WPS. If an A-No was improperly included in the WPS and PQR see comments by gtaw.

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