Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
(OP)
I’m working on a project with a senior PM in our office that’s composite steel framed construction with slab on metal deck. During the pre-construction meeting we had for slab placement the contractor took issue with our specification that states: the placing contractor should assume to add an additional 1.5” of concrete to account for deflection of the steel structure within a given bay and meet the desired floor elevation. The contractor said if we are placing concrete and we add an additional 1.5” of concrete in a bay and top of slab is not met, how much more can we add? It is their opinion the deck will locally deflect. My PM does not want to answer this question and wants the contractor to refer to the metal deck shop notes which say maximum unshored spans are based on SDI construction loading criteria of 20 PSF. My question is, isn’t this note referring to an allowable live load for the contractors and finishing equipment on the deck? The contractor insists this is a safety issue (how much concrete can we add - 2,3,4”) to meet top of slab.
The contractor also took issue with our FL requirements for slab on metal deck and said they can’t measure FL for unshored construction. My PM took the lead on the discussion and argued against this - insisting on a laser level to be used as opposed to the “stick method.” Since I’m new to the constructability side I was wondering if someone could help explain this to me as well as opine on what you would do if a contractor was pushing back on your anticipated deflection of the supporting structure.
The contractor also took issue with our FL requirements for slab on metal deck and said they can’t measure FL for unshored construction. My PM took the lead on the discussion and argued against this - insisting on a laser level to be used as opposed to the “stick method.” Since I’m new to the constructability side I was wondering if someone could help explain this to me as well as opine on what you would do if a contractor was pushing back on your anticipated deflection of the supporting structure.
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
Floor Levelness (FL) is not applicable to unshored elevated construction, ACI 117 notes this, however Floor Flatness (FF) is.
My understanding is over pour of the slab on deck can serve two purposes:
1. To allow the contractor to get the minimum slab thickness everywhere understanding that the deck and beams will all deflect, while also not overloading the non-composite beams or deck.
2. To make-up some of the overall deflection in the pre-composite phase, and again while also not overloading the non-composite beams or deck.
If after over pouring the deck within the limits set the floors need additional leveling compound to meet floor finishing requirements then a lightweight self leveling compound is usually called for, in my experience. Since this compound is being added after the slab and beams are composite the additional weight is usually pretty well tolerated, just make sure the connection designs have taken it into account.
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https://github.com/buddyd16/Structural-Engineering
Open Source Structural GitHub Group:
https://github.com/open-struct-engineer
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
SLAB FLATNESS
SLAB FLATNESS SHALL BE [ 20/15 | 25/20 | 35/25 | 45/35 | 65/40 | 100/50 | FM1 | FM2 | FM3 ]
U/N FLOORS SHALL HAVE A DEGREE OF FLATNESS DEFINED BY THE FACE FF/FL NUMBER THAT SHALL NOT BE LESS THAN:
-20/15 MECHANICAL ROOMS, PARKING STRUCTURES, ETC.
-25/20 CARPETED AREAS OF COMMERCIAL OFFICE BUILDINGS
-35/25 TYPICAL WAREHOUSE FOR MODERATE/HEAVY RANDOM TRAFFIC, FACTORY, ETC.
-45/35 CONSIDERED 'FLAT' TYPICAL WAREHOUSE WITH AIR PALLET USE, ICE RINKS, ETC.
-65/40 CONSIDERED 'VERY FLAT'
-100/50 CONSIDERED 'SUPER FLAT'
ALTERNATIVELY,
THE MAX VERTICAL DEVIATION OVER A [24" | 600MM] WIDTH SHALL NOT EXCEED
-2.5mm (quality FM1)
-3.5mm (quality FM2)
-5.0mm (quality FM3)
THE MAXIMUM VERTICAL DEVIATION OVER A [10FT | 3.0M] WIDTH SHALL NOT EXCEED
-3.0mm (quality FM1)
-6.0mm (quality FM2)
-8.0mm (quality FM3)
FLATNESS TESTING MAY COMMENCE 16 HOURS AFTER SLAB FINISHING. FLATNESS TESTING SHALL BE COMPLETED WITHIN 72 HOURS OF SLAB FINISHING
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
I agree that is a safety issue and, if your strategy is going to be to basically allow ponding to happen en route to achieving levelness, then you guys should do whatever leg work is required to ensure that that the amount of ponded concrete required to achieve that doesn't get anybody hurt. If there's a "note" somewhere that covers this, it must be one heck of a note.
Your PM's proposed method is theoretically possible. One could do laser leveling from a rigid datum like a column and then have the contactor just keep adding and leveling concrete until the desired FL criterion was reached. One can specify an FL number (ASTM) without reference to ACI 117. But, then, you'd also have to get into specifying related tolerances for the steel framing in addition to the concrete work in order to make it all come together. While all of this is possible, it would be costly and rarely justified when one could just, instead, use a leveling compound after the fact.
My gut feel is that your contractor is more knowledgeable about this than your PM and is probably just trying to gently tell you guys to switch course on your floor flatness strategy.
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
The way I interpret our Spec is that we are allowing for a max of 1.5” of concrete. Nothing over this. If the top of slab elevation is not met then leveling compound will be required...
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
Here is the way the conversation should go:
1. What is the required floor flatness requirements?
2. Can the contractors proposed method of placement theoretically meet such requirements?
3. What is the allowable amount of concrete beyond the specified thickness that we can add to make up for deflection?
4. If the deflection exceeds allowable what do you want the contractor to do (add as required or maintain 1.5” max and deal with later)?
BTW: in specifying such tolerances it is wise to consider method of placement because deflections can be materially different depending on how things are placed (more distributed placement as compared to bay by bay, etc). Also, leveling compounds have weight (often not much less than concrete) so saying you will level later with a compound is a bit strange (unless you have a very lightweight product in-mind…they exist but $$$).
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
RE: Slab on Metal Deck Placement - Maximum Allowable Concrete and FL Requirements
You have to figure in the deck deflection and check the deck for the added concrete along with the rest of the floor system. I kind of overrode ACI 117 and stated a deflection per length that is the goal (such as 1/8" difference per 10 feet of slab length), with a not to exceed amount of added to be concrete. I provided a note stating this and warned that exceeding the stated allowed additional amount could cause a collapse. However, I also had a good concrete sub on that project so a simple note like this may not always go as well. But I don't think that requiring this type of leveling is all that unusual anymore.
Without leveling, l/360 seems to be the most common deflection that is designed for in my experience. Since this is not codified, you may have problems convincing an unreasonable owner that the deflection is acceptable and somewhat industry standard. I had one contractor say that it was going to cause him problems installing the stud partitions due to the l/360 beam deflections. AISC Design Guide 3, however, suggests l/360 or a 1" max accumulated total in a bay (either accumulated applies). The 1" total accumulated can require some heavy beam sizes in my experience. Ponding is stated to still needed to be checked separately.
You could do the self leveling compound after the floors are poured like is suggested above, but I don't have experience in how well that works. I may try that in the future as it is still somewhat concerning that a crew may get over eager and cause a ponding collapse when attempting to level during the initial pour.
This is one of the better article I have found on the topic.
https://www.constructionspecifier.com/specifying-a...
The below paper has a procedure at the end to determine deflection convergence of the ponding beams if you are interested.
https://ascelibrary.org/doi/pdf/10.1061/%28ASCE%29...