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Difficult with weld joints, WPS and duties

Difficult with weld joints, WPS and duties

Difficult with weld joints, WPS and duties

(OP)
Hello.
I am mechanical designer. Now I work on foregein project (to me, I'm from Russia) basic on ASME, AWS, DEP and other special documents designed by buyer. My company work with that documents first time (usually we use GOST (ГОСТ) system).
Project - methanol injection skid - consist of frame (steel) and piping (SS316) with valve, dbb, tank, injection pump and other.
At buyer requirmenet, we must make a weld map (for frame and piping) with volume of control (UV, DPT, FERRITE, RD, PMI - all of it wrote in ITP).
So, I made weld map with special table, where shown number weld, length, type, WPS, PQR and volume of control. And I have a lot of question about it, but some especially bother me:
  1. In Pic.1 I highlighted four weld joints (red colour) for box tube connection (60x60x5(mm)): 1 and 2 looks like T-joint, 3 and 4 - angle (called it by Russia, may be in AWS it called some different). All of it joints combine by one WPS, am I right?
  2. In Pic.2 I highlighted five weld joints (red colour) for C-channel coneection (P12 GOST 8240): Red joints looks like butt joints, two blue (by both side of connection) - T-joints, and one blue in the middle - t-joints (I seprate blue joints on two group because thickness steel in place of connection different: fold of c-channel thicker than "main" part). All of it joints combine by one WPS, am I right?
  3. In usual situtation in usual normal company, where make this things (weld frame by AWS, use ASME) who usualy make this work? I mean, in my company missing welding department (norm for Russia), so now I forced to made weld plan, write supposed (a shot in the dark, because I haven't competencies to say real it or not) volume of control based ITP and send it information into:
    • labatory (our contractor for PMI, RD);
    • our factory department (where we have UV, DPT laboratory);
    • our contractor, who make to us WPS, PQR, WPQ.
    After I need to consolidate all feedback, correct comments, repeat previosly step, and, if all right, after all I send weld plan with table for our buyer.
    Here one of weld map part

RE: Difficult with weld joints, WPS and duties

Vladmir,
There is a lot more involved that you haven't covered.
You should not be asking us if joints are covered by one WPS - you (or the actual designer) must designate what the joints are - groove (butt) or fillet.
Then you detail the drawings so the welders know what they are.
Then you put that in your Weld Table ( we call them Weld Summary Sheets but many different names around the world)
Attached is an example of a recent project I was on.
The amount of detail required should be determined by the Client / Customer before you actually start the work.
PM me if you need further help,
Cheers,
Shane

RE: Difficult with weld joints, WPS and duties

You're on the right track.

1. For the first pic, weld 3 and 4 (the two "side" welds, you have to determinge whether you want them full penetration or not (and designate this in the weld arrow: eg. s = 5 mm). Also, if you require full penetration, make sure you can accurately check this (with your UT guys).

2. You can make a WPS as elaborate as you wnt (with positions, thicknesses, ...) as long as it is covered by a (or more) WPQR (and as long as it remains clear to read for the welders).

I'm not quite sure I understand your 3rd question correctly. Normally, the welding engineer of the contractor needs to prepare the weld data book (another name) IF the client requested this or if it is legally an obligation by construction standards. You as the client need to be able to decipher and evaluate this.

RE: Difficult with weld joints, WPS and duties

(OP)
Kingnero, DekDee, thank for answers.

Quote (kingnero)

1. For the first pic, weld 3 and 4 (the two "side" welds, you have to determinge whether you want them full penetration or not (and designate this in the weld arrow: eg. s = 5 mm). Also, if you require full penetration, make sure you can accurately check this (with your UT guys).
I make some pics for joints: preparation cut and sizes of joints based on welding's GOST (16047 and 14771). Part of joints with full penetration, part without. Specifically these (I mean joints in first question) without.

Quote (kingnero)

2. You can make a WPS as elaborate as you wnt (with positions, thicknesses, ...) as long as it is covered by a (or more) WPQR (and as long as it remains clear to read for the welders).
Got it. Now I wanna know next thing: our company make many frame things with c-channel, L-angles, box tube, some sheet steel. So, is there any reason make special WPS which show c-channel joint (like in 2nd question) or joint L-angle with tube box, for example? I mean, many of combinition of joints are same: box tube - sheet, l-angle - c-channel, so, may be combine joints by welded beam (or channel, angle, etc.) and use it? Or it a waste a time and better use WPS where shown connection like plate of steel, I mean we weld two box tube at 90 degree (like in first question) and it looks like in first side - welding by two plate with 5 mm thick and use WPS for sheet metal or second side - we weld two box tube and use WPS special for box tube.

Quote (kingnero)

I'm not quite sure I understand your 3rd question correctly...

Quote (DekDee)

Then you detail the drawings so the welders know what they are.
Then you put that in your Weld Table ( we call them Weld Summary Sheets but many different names around the world)
I got some point but I can't see full picture. I mean next:
  • supplyer's mechanical designer made a drawing for steel frame
  • buyer and supplyer agreed ITP plan that say all welding joints of frame need 10% UV and 10% DPT
  • who must do weld map and "weld summury sheet" ? And how and when agreed moments with buyer when haven't opportunities do UV (difficult construction etc)?
In third column I want a special highlight "when" because in my situation I have some joints which we can't do UV. So, what say buyer when look into report of test and see this?

I hope that thing which I speak about not a crazy talksmile

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