Immature co-worker
Immature co-worker
(OP)
Our engineering department was recently required to hire a university graduate due to /ahem/ reasons. Best not to ask why. We have been put into a difficult situation with this person, and I would like to ask for ideas on how to make the best of it.
This person has several problems at play, including knowledge and skills gaps, but overall I have come to believe that this person has never had to take anything seriously before in his life. The cause of this may be the /ahem/ reason mentioned above. To be clear, the issues do not include antisocial behaviour or rudeness - not at all. The person is pleasant enough to talk to, but only insofar as you would talk to a drinking buddy. As soon as you try to talk business, out comes the disrespect. You are often interrupted by their opinion. Offer them a correction, you endure an explanation why they thought they were right in the first place. Explain a method, you get an explanation of another one that doesn't work. I often quote Luke Skywalker "Every word of what you just said is wrong".
A few sample quotes:
"Why don't you just weld the door shut?" [when asked to draw a figure showing a door handle removal procedure]
"But that will take me all day!" [when asked to convert a batch of drawings from one CAD format to another]
"What is this?" [holding a rivet, the most common fastener in the aerospace industry]
"I just specified glue on all surfaces to make sure that it would stick" [on the inside and outside of the hose]
I could go on, but some of you may believe me less and less, the more I write. Since this guy cannot competently do anything, every task requires more hours of supervision than it would take for the supervisor to do it himself. At this point 4 people have tried to step into the supervision role (including myself) and we have all emerged in disbelief. We even have an intern who is trying. I hear them argue, too.
This is becoming a distraction and a burden for many people in the department. I would say I am proud of my engineering team, except for this person. We have some other newly hired people, who are shining, I must add. The intern I mentioned is awesome, but dealing with this person may discourage him from coming back to my company after he graduates. Any on-the-job training activities for the new (permanent) hires will include him by default. The effectiveness of their training is being reduced by his interference. I was planning several more training sessions but postponed them, to the detriment of the other new people.
Are there any suggestions on how to deal with this? How to reduce the pain? How to maintain encouragement and support for the other new hires?
Please remember that the appropriate solution is not possible.
This person has several problems at play, including knowledge and skills gaps, but overall I have come to believe that this person has never had to take anything seriously before in his life. The cause of this may be the /ahem/ reason mentioned above. To be clear, the issues do not include antisocial behaviour or rudeness - not at all. The person is pleasant enough to talk to, but only insofar as you would talk to a drinking buddy. As soon as you try to talk business, out comes the disrespect. You are often interrupted by their opinion. Offer them a correction, you endure an explanation why they thought they were right in the first place. Explain a method, you get an explanation of another one that doesn't work. I often quote Luke Skywalker "Every word of what you just said is wrong".
A few sample quotes:
"Why don't you just weld the door shut?" [when asked to draw a figure showing a door handle removal procedure]
"But that will take me all day!" [when asked to convert a batch of drawings from one CAD format to another]
"What is this?" [holding a rivet, the most common fastener in the aerospace industry]
"I just specified glue on all surfaces to make sure that it would stick" [on the inside and outside of the hose]
I could go on, but some of you may believe me less and less, the more I write. Since this guy cannot competently do anything, every task requires more hours of supervision than it would take for the supervisor to do it himself. At this point 4 people have tried to step into the supervision role (including myself) and we have all emerged in disbelief. We even have an intern who is trying. I hear them argue, too.
This is becoming a distraction and a burden for many people in the department. I would say I am proud of my engineering team, except for this person. We have some other newly hired people, who are shining, I must add. The intern I mentioned is awesome, but dealing with this person may discourage him from coming back to my company after he graduates. Any on-the-job training activities for the new (permanent) hires will include him by default. The effectiveness of their training is being reduced by his interference. I was planning several more training sessions but postponed them, to the detriment of the other new people.
Are there any suggestions on how to deal with this? How to reduce the pain? How to maintain encouragement and support for the other new hires?
Please remember that the appropriate solution is not possible.
RE: Immature co-worker
So, why bother then, since he's unproductive and you wind up unproductive trying to make him productive?
If he never has to face the consequences of failing, then he will never try to do anything at all, since it's completely irrelevant to his continued employment.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Immature co-worker
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Immature co-worker
Because he's making a half-dozen other people less productive. And diluting the skills training of 2 others. Third reason is the morale of everyone.
Interesting idea. Is there a danger that this would make him more likely to return, able to inflict even more damage?
RE: Immature co-worker
Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and start putting people in their place... they won't get it any other way (and even THEN they don't always get it, as evidenced above).
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Immature co-worker
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Immature co-worker
I'm a real "hire for attitude, train for skill" kind of person. I really want my (nascent) management style to show that.
This situation is sending the wrong message to all the other departments in the company.
RE: Immature co-worker
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Immature co-worker
For about 5 years now he seems to be untouchable. I've documented violations of ethics, performance, falsehoods, safety, schedule attainment, and so on. It is so illogical that one assumes this co-worker has incriminating photographs of the leadership engaged in strange behavior with goats or something. The one word that describes this individual is UNTRUSTWORTHY.
After much thinking (and prayers) I had a revelation and it is summarized in one verb: MARGINALIZE.
I have done much more than my share to making the system work (requiring LOTS of long, hard hours), doing the extra effort to improve our work environment, and so on. Without complaint. I have stopped openly complaining about this person. At the same time, though, clearly communicating to the leadership these conditions in a non-accusatory manner. I have also started a heavy Public Relations campaign showing the improvements that I have accomplished, broadcasting the improvements I made for the betterment of the team and work environment. Those accomplishments and significant improvements are there for all to see, and those things SHOULD have been done by this other person. Now after about 10 months many people are starting to ask hard questions and see the truth. This person is no longer asked or invited to do stuff. He comes in to the work space, goes to his office, and closes his door all day long. He needs to be invited to abruptly go work somewhere else, but in the meantime I will take his isolation and non-participation as a win because it reduces the damage and frustration he can cause. This entire unfortunate incident reminds me of the quote "Beware the fury of the patient man."
I would much rather have this person as an active participatory team member whom could be trusted. I don't think that will ever happen though. Some folks just simply aren't wired that way.
TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com
RE: Immature co-worker
For this untouchable person, find out what it is they DO want to be doing and see what it takes to make that happen.
If this is a case of nepotism, talk to the sponsor and tell them this individual does not want the position they have and see if the sponsor can adjust that attitude
RE: Immature co-worker
RE: Immature co-worker
Given this unofficial role, I'm not out of line to speak with HR. I didn't think they could do much until I read Truck and Bus comments and realized I should start there, no matter what I do. Even expecting that it won't help, it would establish my use of "proper channels" before going higher up. This will not be a quick process, so I have to start soon.
I can frame the HR discussion as "how to help" and look for solutions. Must carefully steer away from a b**** session.
RE: Immature co-worker
So who hired him? Who writes his performance reviews? Who approves their time card, vacation time, etc? Ultimately they are the one who should be handling this. Having a senior engineer lead a project team is common but that doesn't make them a supervisor. Ultimately everybody should have a clearly defined supervisor/manager/boss within the larger org chart to handle hiring/firing, administrative, and HR'esque duties like this.
RE: Immature co-worker
https://screenrant.com/seinfeld-george-costanzas-j...
RE: Immature co-worker
At age 62, I would ask him what he wants to do at the firm. If he is not interested, I would challenge him to convince his safety net relative he needs to go elsewhere "to fulfill his amazing potential". After all, someone who is terrible has "more potential" than someone who is constantly succeeding.
RE: Immature co-worker
There are small company and big company employees. A small company employee gets frustrated in a large company due to their inability to fix all the things that should be fixed and biggest problem is just interfacing with a lot of groups and people. A premium is just placed on just getting people on board with solutions. At a small company, a premium is placed on being able to fix a lot of problems and often without a lot of oversight or the need to get consensus from a large group of people. In my opinion, people usually fit into on hat or the other if they have any serious interest in their profession. Your coworker might just be a great large company employee who would get along perfectly wearing fewer technical hats and working with people and not problems. Maybe, you are at a large company and don't realize you are a small company employee. Maybe, you think the premium at your place is on fixing problems and it is really just on working with groups of people and you just don't see why your coworker is kept on or why your work is not as valued. Whatever he is doing might be seen as enough to the powers that be and your problem solving is not valued or is overlooked. I have worked at large companies that always complained about not having technical people but when push came to shove all the technical work was outsourced to consultants even when it could have been done internally and a person in management just flat out told me we don't need technical people, we can just get consultants. Check where you are.
RE: Immature co-worker
Maybe they need a rotation through the company to learn the different departments. Would a month or two in the shop on the dock give them some perspective?
Sometimes there is another "untouchable" person that can be their mentor and explain things to them.
If it is the situation where you will be working for that person someday would you rather be their yes man or the one that give it to them straight?
This is one of the trade offs a of a family business.