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Global warming is over!!!
2

Global warming is over!!!

Global warming is over!!!

(OP)
Dont know if this is fake news or a legitimate article. Regardless, this is the first time Ive seen this suggested and at the very least , I believe the idea needs wider dissemination , if only to generate discussion.

https://coldclimatechange.com/the-fantasy-of-globa...

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Well, nothing lasts forever :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Global warming is over!!!

well nothing but death.

Anything making outlandish claims (like this) about CC is a crock.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Global warming is over!!!

having looked over the article (liked the "grok" reference) this is, IMHO, just more outlandish claims that we get from both sides to the "debate".

Sure, warmer weather is generally better for crop yields. Sure colder weather is generally worse. Sure volcanos liberate particles etc that affect weather.

Sure, IMHO, whatever volcanic activity recently will affect (to some degree) the near term weather, will it "end" global warming … hardly.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Global warming is over!!!

LOL, any time there is a hottest day or week or month on record it's absolute proof of global warming, but any time there is a cold record it's just an ignorable anomaly since you can't judge global warming by any short term trends.

The article does have a point. A number of very big volcanic eruptions spread over a few years could completely mess up the planet. Something like that happening could quickly show how insignificant humans really are.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

"any time there is a hottest day or week or month on record it's absolute proof of global warming, but any time there is a cold record it's just an ignorable anomaly since you can't judge global warming by any short term trends."

Actually, no, record highs HAVE to come with record lows of some sort, either in intensity or duration; do the math, the net change in global temperature is not even a full degree, which is composed of highs and lows. But, for that same reasoning, record lows are indeed irrelevant, if the net trend is still upward; what is proof is that the long-term trend is upward.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Global warming is over!!!

However, pretty much everything else on the site is crock. The primary author shows a picture of a glacier and simply states that it doesn't look like 80% loss, therefore climate change isn't affecting the glacier. There's no science, no analysis, just assertions based on selective quoting of legitimate discussions, or just assertions, period.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Reading up on the opposing viewpoints on this complex issue, I wonder if there are any facts, conclusions or opinions we all agree on. I would accept 90% as "all" since it is almost impossible to get literally everyone to agree on something.

Lets start with 2 very simple ones.
  1. Do you agree or disagree that it is possible to overpopulate the earth? Could we have so many people on earth that the earth's environment cannot produce enough food and water for us to all live?
  2. Regardless of whether you think it is critical at this time or not, do you at least think it is a reasonable conclusion that the current way we live on earth is having an overall negative affect on the environment? I am not talking on a 12 year timeline, just do you think that the net effects are negative, positive or neutral?
For me, #1 is a agree and #2 is a net negative. On the second one, we consume naturally occurring materials to manufacture items. The manufacturing process has waste byproducts that we dispose of. Many final products get thrown away in a landfill or the ocean. So, I see a net negative as a reasonable conclusion. Just plastic alone is unbelievable. Buy something that is so small you could hold 10 of them in one hand and it comes packaged in a plastic Fort Knox so big you cannot put it in your pocket or a purse. Thank God there is an seemingly endless supply of plastic plants to harvest this raw material from.


RE: Global warming is over!!!

Sure, agree on 1, and definitely negative on 2, since we've evidence of plastics accumulation on the oceans, and worse, micro and nano plastic particles appearing in all sorts of unexpected places.

As for the population, sure; there's going to be another tipping point where countries that haven't made economic progress are pumping out babies faster than they can produce or import new food supplies. Possibly, we hit that wall before we get into serious trouble on climate.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Global warming is over!!!

(OP)
Gotta admit, the sceptical responses to my original post have a lot of credibility. For what its worth, Alberta has been definitely cool this summer with very few days at 28-30 degrees or better. No need whatsoever for air conditioning.

Having said that , the attached may lead to further discussion over the next 8 months or so.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/farmers-alm...

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

LOL, any time there is a hottest day or week or month on record it's absolute proof of global warming, but any time there is a cold record it's just an ignorable anomaly since you can't judge global warming by any short term trends.

I have not seen a single scientific paper, or even a single news piece in a popular scientific journal, that treats a single day, week, or month as having any great significance.

Even in the popular press (or those parts of it that are not run by the pseudo-skeptic deniers), I have not seen it treated as absolute proof of anything

I don't know why the linked article is seen as having any significance; the internet is full of similar nonsense.

But in the interests of generating some discussion, it is highly likely that at some time in the future the natural cycles will result in a much cooler climate. Shouldn't we preserve as much easily accessible fossil fuel as possible, so that future generations can do something about this cooling, when it happens?

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

farmer's alamacs have been very successful (if unscientific) at predicting near term weather, so I don't think they deserve the appellation "nonsense".

IMO, these naturally occurring cool cycles distort the simple message being broadcast to the public.

The message is, in my words, that we need to curtail burning FFs because they contribute to the global climate change we're seeing.
There is naturally a significant amount of pain in that message is it is (again, in my words) being delivered rather stridently.
Then any natural turn against the trend in worsening (as it is taken to be) global climate is greeted and touted as cause to defer the pain.
But this then detracts IMO from the underlying message, that we should be more restrained in burning FFs as it probably isn't the best (and most sustainable) thing we can do for the environment.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote (rb1957)

the underlying message, that we should be more restrained in burning FFs as it probably isn't the best (and most sustainable) thing we can do for the environment

The basic point of your statement is a good valid point that most should agree with. The problem comes in with the urgency issue being presented. The message versus the messenger vs the messenger's behavior is what creates the bigger divide. The message is "CC will kill us in 12 years"--> the messenger is a staunch advocate of CC --> but then their behavior is "you do as I say while I fly a private yet to the climate conference or I will buy a huge house right on the ocean" Till that changes, I doubt little will change people's behavior. I know that is driving more of my behavior than any other single item. If the situation is so dire, why are they fiddling while Rome is burning? I will include in that general comment the climate change reports. I feel the CC believers should be more enraged, upset and vocal about the CC leaders behavior and any truly slanted reports than those denying climate change exists.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

hopefully he does buy "a huge house right on the ocean" … only to see it disappear under his hypocrisy … (smile)

more rhetoric (on both sides) leads to more division.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Well the news media doesn't change science, it only manipulates uneducated viewers.
It's the scientists who should be discussing this, and whose work should inform government policy.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

Even in the popular press (or those parts of it that are not run by the pseudo-skeptic deniers), I have not seen it treated as absolute proof of anything

You mustn't pay any attention to popular press then....

Personally, I believe humans are way too damn selfish to expect any kind of noble cause reaction to climate change. It'll never happen.

Besides, there are so MANY other bad things we are doing to the environment besides burning fossil fuels. Many of those really should be addressed too but that'll never happen either.

RE: Global warming is over!!!


Quote:

You mustn't pay any attention to popular press then....

On the contrary, I play plenty of attention, although obviously I don't read all of it, and next to nothing published in the USA.

But it's irrelevant anyway.

It doesn't need to be treated as a "noble cause". The likely future costs of GHG emissions just need to be recognised in what we pay for energy now, instead of being hidden and ignored.

The same applies to other activities with hidden future costs.

It just needs some politicians with the guts to apply the market system in a logical way, and the charisma to get elected.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

I would like to clarify some points in the previous few posts.

LionelHutz: What is the "popular press"?

ironic metallurgist: What does someone have to do to become a "scientist"? I have asked this before in this forum and don't think I have ever see an answer posted. I do not know any college curriculum for "Scientist". The most consistently cited statement I see about CC is the "97% of the scientist agree...". So, to me it is important for me to know what they did to be elevated to a status of we should mainly listen to them.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

"What does someone have to do to become a "scientist"?" …
a) study a science of some sort,
b) apply the scientific method to solve a problem,
c) have a piece of paper on the wall,
d) have the idea in their head (that they're a scientist, not necessarily a "useful" idea).

should you listen to their opinions ? unless they've studied climate dynamics for a while (10-20 years) then maybe they have an informed opinion.
otherwise they're no better informed than the rest of us (and possibly less informed if they've developed an opinion and then sought supporting studies)
yes, I know that's not science, but it is human behaviour.

But, as you'd expect, this leads to a very small pool of people, and these have (IMO) differing views. So to get a "consensus" IPCC cast the net very wide, asked very general questions, and got the answers they wanted.

But the problem of CC is much less of a scientific/technical problem/issue and much more a social/political one, IMO.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote (rb1957)

b) apply the scientific method to solve a problem,

Has the scientific method changed since the 80s and 90s? I see more comments on "peer reviewed" now than I recall seeing back then. I may be wrong but I seem to recall you could not (or should not) accept research that had a desired goal attached to it but now that appears acceptable. Someone could pay you to research whether Coca Cola makes you drunk or not but they could not ask you to prove Coca Cola makes you drunk.

Incidentally, based on my own research, Coca Cola will make your drunk. I have gotten drunk from Bourbon and Coke, Rum and Coke and even tried Beer and Coke. Got drunk every time. Coca Cola was the only common denominator.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

But, as you'd expect, this leads to a very small pool of people, and these have (IMO) differing views. So to get a "consensus" IPCC cast the net very wide, asked very general questions, and got the answers they wanted.

The suggestion that the IPCC cast a wide net because they could not get a consensus from the small group of scientists with substantial knowledge of climate studies is just plain wrong.

Quote:


But the problem of CC is much less of a scientific/technical problem/issue and much more a social/political one, IMO.

The question of what effect increasing greenhouse gasses will have on the climate is a scientific question.

The question of what should be done about it is an engineering question. Yes, it includes social/political aspects, but so does almost every other engineering question.

The reluctance of people here to talk about what should be done about it is frustrating.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote (IDS)

The reluctance of people here to talk about what should be done about it is frustrating.

I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. I have no real talent in Chemistry, Biology, Meteorology or Environmental Engineering even though I am a Civil graduate. So I have very little to offer in the way of technical expertise about CC. All I remember about chemistry is take the word "sodium" and add any word that ends in "ate" and you may have the correct answer to what something is. Sodium Procrastinate, Sodium Infuriate etc.

I was looking into the forum to inform myself a little better on this subject. Right now, I am sure we are negatively affecting the earth but I am not sold on the urgency of it. So I am a "climate change denier light". I see this issue as having 3 pieces that for the most part could be worked on somewhat independently.
  1. What is the current magnitude of CC. (reliable research)
  2. What can we do to reduce, slow down or eliminate CC. (brainstorming engineering, chemistry, biology, physics etc)
  3. How do we implement the CC reduction methods based on our perception of the seriousness of it. (social, financial and political)
I expected to read about engineers brainstorming solutions and not worrying about the politics. I don't have a problem with shunning climate deniers from the brainstorming sessions if they are messing up the process but I do have a problem with shunning them from the general debate and how to implement phases. You need their participation in the 3rd piece for sure. I think there should be multiple threads going on right now that are dedicated to the 2nd piece. The threads need to be more surgical in nature when it comes to what we can contribute. The deniers should respectfully stay out of the brainstorming session comments but raise all the hell they want in the other 2. It is a shame to have this much available talent and nothing is happening in the one piece the world expects us to help with. The 2nd piece also needs to have no politics in it. When the thread starts social and political commentary, it invites us deniers to comment.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

LionelHutz: What is the "popular press"?

Why are you asking me? I didn't start with the "popular press". I really could care less to argue what popular press is or why it matters. However, just to note, In recent years I have seen quite a few stupid stories about how a hot this or that is/was being touted as proof of global warming coming from North American national news feeds. I certainly don't go searching fringe sites for news stories.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

2
Anyone who can't see plainly that the USA press tries to make every significant weather event into proof of CC is either not watching/reading anything, or simply so ingrained in their own confirmation bias that they are blind to it. It is everywhere and obvious. It is happening every hour of every day right now due to the hurricane. But it doesn't have to be a hurricane. Every heat wave, cold spell, blizzard, flood, and drought is driven by CC. Gotta maintain the narrative at all costs.

I've stated several times how much I think this narrative hurts the cause. It doesn't even matter if it turns out to be true. It's not provable with present data. It's illogical to a layperson that CC could cause hotter and colder and wetter and dryer weather. And, what it looks like is a huge scare tactic. When you say everything proves your point, no matter what, you look like the crazy delusional one.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

When you say everything proves your point, no matter what, you look like the crazy delusional one.

… and yet when a thread starts with a link to a site that does precisely that, most people seem to think it is quite reasonable, and worth discussing.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

It's illogical to a layperson that CC could cause hotter and colder and wetter and dryer weather.

Just because it's illogical to the layperson doesn't make it false, since no place on Earth is ever at the average temperature for more than a few hours a day, if that. Just like the Antarctic's blistering cold is balanced out by the blistering heat of the Sahara, any extreme hot is balanced out by a nearly equally extreme cold. So CC can indeed bring on BOTH extreme hot and extreme cold; it's the average temperature, which is the difference of two large numbers that's moving up or down.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote (IRstuff)

Just because it's illogical to the layperson doesn't make it false

I didn't say it made it false. I didn't say it is false at all. I said it's not provable with present data, and (to rephrase) it's a very tough sell to people who haven't studied math, physics, chemistry, and thermodynamics like we all have. I understand averages, and I understand the hypothesis of weather becoming more extreme, but that's all it is at this point - a hypothesis. And coming from zealous ideologues on TV who don't even understand it, it comes across like a con job, which (fallaciously) reinforces the ongoing narrative from Limbaugh types that the entirety of CC is a hoax.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

I didn't say it made it false. I didn't say it is false at all. I said it's not provable with present data...

But the reality is that average global temperature has indeed been climbing. The issue isn't that people didn't study physics, because they can still learn that redlining a car continuously is a bad idea; it's just that someone is telling them that the dangers of redlining are completely false and that things breaking off the engine is just "normal variation."

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Global warming is over!!!

IRstuff, my communication skills must be failing me, because it seems you continue to misunderstand my points. I made no reference to temperature. I am talking about the "weather events = CC" narrative, which I believe is damaging to the overall expansion of understanding and acceptance of real CC issues. If alarmists focused on real issues instead of speculative ones, I believe there would be wider acceptance, less division, and less ammo for outright deniers.

Examples include the more than doubling of atmospheric CO2, the physics of radiative forcing, and ocean acidification. These issues are real, measurable, and provable. They give us a problem to solve instead of speculative problem to prevent. re-predicting the apocalypse every few years does no one any good.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Most of these news reports should be sequestered to where the sun don't shine, along with the excess carbon dioxide.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

RE: Global warming is over!!!

IRstuff - You definitely began responding to one thing and then ended by twisting it to try and argue something completely different. Average global temperature has nothing to do with the post you began responding to.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

I was responding to "It's illogical to a layperson that CC could cause hotter and colder and wetter and dryer weather." and my point was hotter and colder temperatures were not inconsistent with an increase in the average, since we're talking about a single number to represent everything that happens during a year. NOAA's maps show that while the average temperature was hotter, it was accompanied by both large anomalies in high and low temperatures, even when gauged against a period that contained relatively stable (the Pause) temperatures.



TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Global warming is over!!!

That map has me more confused than ever. Looks like South America and Africa need to be more like continental US, China and most of Europe. I thought US and China were the big problems. Those areas appear cooler, not hotter based on the map.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

I'm pretty sure your point was to force the fact that the average has increased into the thread....

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

I'm pretty sure your point was to force the fact that the average has increased into the thread....

Why wouldn't you just accept that his point was what he said it was?

Regardless of what his point was, when the opening post states:

Quote:

I believe the idea needs wider dissemination , if only to generate discussion.

and links to an article that looks at weather conditions over a few days over a small area, making a point about the long term average over the globe hardly needs to be "forced" into the thread.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

"It's illogical to a layperson that CC could cause hotter and colder and wetter and dryer weather."

The sub conversation started because of this statement. I see no way to explain how saying the average global temperature is climbing could relate to that statement, or act as a rebuttal to that statement. The 2 really have nothing to do with each other. The statement is a reflection on how a layperson might interpret the CC message. Average global temperature data just being thrown out there simply doesn't fit into the discussion how a layperson might interpret the CC message. So, my take is that it was injected into the sub conversation simply because it was felt necessary, relevance be damn. To put it another way, there was no need responding to that statement in a quote if you wanted to post average global temperature data because the 2 have nothing to do with each other.

A typical action of participants on forums is to take a post, clip out part of it, and using that to go off on their own tangent trying to prove the other person was wrong while in reality their proof has nothing to do with the message in the starting post.

Just try writing "X is wrong when Y happens" on a public forum. You can bet someone will respond with the quote "X is wrong" followed by some blurb along the lines of you have no clue what you're talking about because X is right when Z happens.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

(OP)
Well as the OP, I must say I'm a bit disappointed in the poor quality of the debate here. And perhaps therin lies the main problem......an inability to recognise the POSSIBLE legitimacy of an opinion than isnt 100% in alignment with ones own.

Regardless, the attached doesn't deny climate change / global warming but it does strongly suggest that the focus over the last 20 years or so has been severely misplaced.


https://climatechangedispatch.com/new-papers-human...

RE: Global warming is over!!!

I have a bad habit of asking "why" someone has a particular opinion on something more than caring about "what" their opinion is. The"why" can possibly educate us on something where the "what" cannot. Unfortunately, I have learned over the years that there is a significant percentage of people who have no real reason for having a particular opinion. It appears they form an opinion rather rapidly and then spend the rest of their life only looking for validation of that somewhat totally uninformed opinion. Their most common first response of the "why" answers are amazingly the same regardless of the topic. The most common I hear are:
  • Everyone knows that
  • It is common sense
  • It just is (my favorite)
  • Just ask anyone
  • I just do.
When you press them for a more informative reason, they really have to think. In the world of CC, the common 2nd response is:
  • 97% of scientist say ...
  • I watch the CNN and they always point out it CC is real and manmade.
  • I watch Fox and they always point out it is fake.
So as a rule, I try very hard to know why I think something or where I have no real reason to have an opinion, I just say I don't have one. And there are times I say " I just do". What is your favorite color? Blue. Why. It just is.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

Dont know if this is fake news or a legitimate article. Regardless, this is the first time Ive seen this suggested and at the very least , I believe the idea needs wider dissemination , if only to generate discussion.

https://coldclimatechange.com/the-fantasy-of-globa...

Al Gore is going to be seriously bummed out... lol

RE: Global warming is over!!!

"Al Gore is going to be seriously bummed out ..." … nope, he's already got his money, and his Nobel prize … but there's still milk in that cow, so he'll keep at it.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Global warming is over!!!

(OP)
And thats another part of the problem Al Gore is cast in the same mold as Boris Johnson , D Trump , Truedope, and all the other self serving incompetants that call themselves politicians. Where are the Winston Churchills, the Franklin Roosevelts , the Margret Thatchers, or the John F Kennedys today??? You may or may not have agreed with their politics , or decisions , or policies but the world needs true leadership today like never before.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

Well as the OP, I must say I'm a bit disappointed in the poor quality of the debate here. And perhaps therin lies the main problem......an inability to recognise the POSSIBLE legitimacy of an opinion than isnt 100% in alignment with ones own.

I am disappointed with the poor quality of the debate as well.

It seems that everybody agrees that single weather events are not significant evidence of climate change, one way or the other, but nonetheless we are not supposed to criticise a publication that is entirely based on a single weather event over a single region.

Anyone who thinks that extreme cold weather is not reported should just do a quick search of the Internet; it is widely reported.

And why bring Al Gore into it, if not as an attempt to discredit a pointy of view that differs from your own?

As for the paper at Climate Change Dispatch, that at least seems to be written by scientists, but those who like to adopt a true sceptical approach might like to look at:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/climate-change-disp...

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

It is good to see some success in fighting censorship of skeptics:

Did you actually read the link?

"The case has been repeatedly framed in media reports as one about academic freedom, or about the validity of the minority and controversial views held by Ridd about climate change and the health of the Great Barrier Reef.

Vasta made clear in his judgment in April those matters were not on trial.

“Some have thought that this trial was about freedom of speech and intellectual freedom,” he said. “Media reports have considered that this trial was about silencing persons with controversial or unpopular views.

“Rather, this trial was purely and simply about the proper construction of a clause in an enterprise agreement.”
"

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

I don't post links without reading them.

But I have also read a lot more, including Judge Vasta's remarks in his ruling this week for damages. He is quoted as saying that the university had "incredibly...not understood the whole concept of intellectual freedom".

Vasta was also scathing in his criticism of JCU's behaviour in relation to Dr. Ridd's efforts to find further employment since the April Federal Circuit Court verdict.

James Cook University has a history of intimidating staff who don't toe the party line. They hounded the late Dr. Bob Carter from his position. He was also a climate skeptic.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Well whatever James Cook University may or may not have done, clearly his views on climate change got plenty of exposure, as do those of many other people who call themselves sceptics.

I don't know what any of that has to do with the topic of this thread.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Not much. But if you want to keep these discussions on track, you need to take some lessons in herding cats.

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Not sure what the herding cats reference is about, but OK, yes I shouldn't have bothered responding in the first place.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

"Al Gore is going to be seriously bummed out ..." … nope, he's already got his money, and his Nobel prize … but there's still milk in that cow, so he'll keep at it.

And he is milking away as we speak. Al has been a partner in the venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins, formerly known as Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Byers, since 2007. And he is making tens of millions of dollars every year on his firm's investments in "green" technology companies. I find it rather disingenuous that a person who is portrayed in the media as a crusader for such a cause is continuing to profit handsomely from its promotion.

And I will reiterate what I said in a previous thread on this subject:

Quote:

I have a great deal of difficulty discussing the actual content of the "Green New Deal" with a straight face when it reads as though it was written by a 5th grader who is on heavy medication.

Regarding the topic of climate change, it was predicated above that "If we accept the conclusions as fact" then extreme measures are required on our part to immediately address it. Many of us environmentally conscientious individuals don't blindly accept the bastardization of the scientific method that has been wielded by the likes of Al Gore for political and personal gain as objective and convincing evidence that we are responsible for what is being referred to as global warming, climate change, anthropogenic climate change, or whatever else you choose to call it.

Maui

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Not that I'm a fan of Gore by any stretch of the imagination, but wouldn't that be an example of putting one's money where one's mouth is? Hard to blame a guy for that.

If you expect any venture or crusade to take place without money being made......that just seems silly and naive to me. Nothing will be done and no steps will be taken unless profits are to be gained, and they should be very easily gained in the arena or "green" technologies and innovations.

Higher sustainability and efficiency should be promoted and developed regardless of what you think the truth is with regard to CC. I would think this would be universal due to economics and even more so if you have the mind of an engineer.

Andrew H.
www.mototribology.com

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

Higher sustainability and efficiency should be promoted and developed regardless

THAT's highly unAmerican; some still believe in Manifest Destiny, that it's their God-given right to plunder the riches of the Earth without regard for the consequences. John Muir's quaint notion of protecting and preserving the environment and wildlife was an aberration; we dream of electric sheep...

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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RE: Global warming is over!!!

Quote:

Not that I'm a fan of Gore by any stretch of the imagination, but wouldn't that be an example of putting one's money where one's mouth is? Hard to blame a guy for that.

I actually had to read that twice to be sure that you weren't joking. Seriously??

RE: Global warming is over!!!

I've been trying to figure out what the argument is and I just can't figure it out.

He has his money and time invested in this cause/industry. He makes lots of money from it at least partly, if not largely, due to his influence. What would the joke be?

That he isn't an altruistic CC promoter with nothing to gain from its success or demise and only wants to help simply out of the goodness of his heart?

Andrew H.
www.mototribology.com

RE: Global warming is over!!!

"That he isn't an altruistic CC promoter with nothing to gain from its success or demise and only wants to help simply out of the goodness of his heart?"

yep, pretty much sums it up

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Well then, have I got some bad news for anyone who believed in any other "crusaders" for a cause......jester2

Andrew H.
www.mototribology.com

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Now we are getting to the heart of the issue. Nobody's up for forgoing some revenue (or even being much inconvenienced) "saving the planet".

The climate may change, but that won't.

Regards,

Mike




The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Exactly.

So let's save ourselves (since that's what the CC cause is really about because the planet doesn't need saving)hippy and get rich doing it. king

Andrew H.
www.mototribology.com

RE: Global warming is over!!!

Just getting to the heart of the issue? I posted that point weeks ago....

RE: Global warming is over!!!

so you're saying that this is just circular and rambling ?

yep, welcome to CC "debating".

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

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