It will certainly be interesting to see how this shakes out. My thoughts:
1) The biggest issue for most users when switching to a new software is learning a new interface. So, if the interface is too different from the old interface, that may take away any barrier for existing users to switch to another program. If this is a totally new interface that doesn't "feel" like the old RISA, then the effort spent learning the new interface could easily be spent learning a different program.... Especially, if the new sales restrictions (they refuse to sell the software anymore, but force you to rent it).
2) Didn't STAAD have a STAAD-X program / interface that was supposed to be the big new thing that no one ended up liking or using? My sense is that the RISA folks are "all in" on this interface more than the STAAD / Bentley guys were for STAAD-X. But,it is definitely a major change and it will be interesting to see what the user base thinks of it.
3) This should be a really good way of judging the new RISA / Nemetschek management. While this program was in development while I still worked there, none of the folks who were "pushed out" of RISA (when the new management fully took over) had much to do with this project. And, the programming was done by an entirely different group from overseas. Therefore, if this is a train wreck, then it tells you a lot about the downward direction RISA would likely take in future years. If it is absolutely great then it would likely mean that new management has 'proven themselves' to the user base.
Statement of bias: I worked for RISA for 16 years starting in 2002 and was the former Vice President. I was one of the people that was "pushed out" when new management took over. Also, I now have a job with a competitor. Therefore, I am no where near an unbiased observer.
That being said, I am not trying to trash RISA in any way here. Just sharing the aspects of this thread that are most interesting to me.
JoshPlum,
I've been using RISA since the mid 1980's (the old DOS 2d version). If you recall the "R" in RISA stands for RAPID.
If the new interface isn't nearly as rapid as the old, as an old user, I'd be a bit flustered and frustrated and, as you suggest, consider other products.
I remember back when I had a lot of discussions with Bruce (the original owner of RISA) about how many customers RISA "lost" when the Windows version came out. I put the word "lost" in quotes because many of them continued to use the old DOS version rather than learn a new interface. Then when Windows XP came out and the DOS users ran into compatibility problems many came back and bought the new version.
This transition will be a little different. Users who have switched over to the "subscription" system would not be able to continue to use their old programs unless they continued paying their subscriptions. That's one of the reasons why subscription licenses are so much better for the software companies....
Yes, the ability to select items in the model view based on the items highlighted in the spreadsheet has been in RISA for 5 - 10 years. It wasn't a heavily advertised feature when it was released. Therefore, a lot of users didn't know it existed. I sometimes tried to show it off when teaching training classes because it really impressed some of the attendees.
Thought I would throw my two cents in here. The Win32 architecture (last iteration is Ver 17) was originally released in 1997 as I recall. RISA-3D was way ahead of everybody else back then but I agree it is looking dated these days, being 22 years old now!
Personally I love the new interface. Much credit to Debbie Penko for the look and feel of it, and to Mike Stoop, Christine Li and Alex, Yuriy and the Ukraine group for the hard work developing the code, as well as many others who've made big contributions. Of course, Amber Freund, RISA Tech's CEO, also deserves a lot of credit for shepherding this behemoth across the finish line. This new architecture is rock solid and may last another 20 years.
Generally speaking, RISA has never been stronger. Amber is a much better manager than I ever was, and she is taking RISA to the next level. Nemetschek is a very supportive parent, opening the door for many opportunities RISA could not have pursued as a stand alone company. I sleep well at night knowing RISA is in good hands.
Finally upgraded from RISA V12 to V17. Looking forward to this. RISA is one of the few programs that doesn't have many glaring flaws.
I've always been one to enjoy change though.
I had a good friend who used to say the following about estimated software release dates (specifically mocking me when I'd tell him when a new version of RISA would be released!): Take whatever they tell you, increase the units, then double it.
Meaning if they tell you they're 3 days away, then you can expect it to be six weeks or so. If they're six weeks away, then expect it in 12 months. RISA has gotten a lot better at release estimates when Amber started running things. But, I still share this since I think it points out how unwise it is to rely on release date estimates... from ANY software company.
Sounds like my high school days with my irresponsible friends -
There were speed signs posted for oncoming curves on the highway with recommended "safe" speeds.
The rule of thumb was if it said the curve speed was recommended at 45 mph, you could double it and subtract 10 mph to see what you really can take it at.
I do not agree with Bruce Bates( OlderEngr (Structural))
If it were not for the obstinacy and backwardness of the leadership in Kiev with the new version RISA 3D v18 NET it could have been done better and faster. Particularly worried about the stability of the new program, its adaptation to new computer hardware, especially to new video card NVidia and AMD, 4000K and 8000K displays.
About parallel computing speech does not go. There are no modern 3D display technologies.
What to pay more for?
Best regards...
Wow, I'm surprised to hear someone say something so.... opinionated. I have to admit that I'm trying to figure out who you might be! Because for you to have inside knowledge of the "obstinacy and backwardness" of the Kiev group, I suspect that I may have worked with you in the past. Interesting....
I worked with the Kiev group when I was the project lead for various releases of the RISAConnection program. This was a much smaller group, of course, and had very little interaction with the developers who were re-writing RISA-3D for this new release. But, my experience with them was almost entirely positive. They were good, smart people (smarter than I am for sure!). The only drawback is they didn't know anything about structural engineering. But, that's why it was important to have someone like me working with them to make sure that the engineering side of it was handled correctly. I suppose, part of it could be that the internal architecture of the program was already set. Therefore, there would be little conflict related to that.... especially from me.
On a different note, I would kindly suggest that you tone down your comments somewhat. Nemetschek, as I understand it, is very protective of their brand. And, that could certainly include being litigious if they feel on-line statements could threaten their brand or their profitability. Honestly, even if everything you say is true, they can still harass you with the legal process and force you to spend lots of money to defend yourself.
I have checked the videos and I like the proposed new interface of Risa3D v18. Unfortunately, after being a Risa3D user since the days of the DOS versions (my first purchase was, I think, the v4.0), I was forced out as a Risatech costumer by the subscription system. It is extremely expensive for me: I live and work outside the US and earning and spending such amount of dollars just to keep the software active is out of my budget, particularly since I acquired 3 different products from Risa: 3D, Foundation and Connection, and for a similar amount of money in licensing I can have, from another firm, a suite that includes tools for drawing, BIM and a capable structural engineering software, among other applications. It was paradoxical for me that after receiving the final confirmation that if wanted a software upgrade from Risa I would have to be considered as a every other new customer, a few weeks later I got a mail from Risa support informing me that a bug I had reported had been fixed, encouraging me to check it in the (then) new v17 version.
Meanwhile, I will continue using the Risa products I have until my toggle key allows it. I already have some problems starting directly the Connection and Foundations programs; I have to access them via the Risa3D integration. For the future I am trying other possibilities like Robot (many features but much of them somehow difficult to find), Nemetschek's own Scia (too many buttons), Midas, Etc. By the way, the standard software used here in my country is Etabs (or Sap2000). Maybe I will have to join that trend…
I was forced out as a Risatech costumer by the subscription system.
I'm so sorry that they treated you (and every other customer like you) this way. I would like to point out that this was really RISA / Nemetschek and not the RISA Tech that I was associated with for so long.
Quote (jocargil)
Meanwhile, I will continue using the Risa products I have until my toggle key allows it. I already have some problems starting directly the Connection and Foundations programs;
I would be plenty happen to help you if your run into any problem. It may have to be on the evenings or weekends as I have other work during the week. While I'm not as "up to speed" on tech support issues as I was a couple of years ago, I did spend 16 years there and almost certainly know more about their hardware key licensing than anyone that currently works there.
That being said, please ask any questions like this in a new / future thread (or privately if you don't want to publicly share). The nice thing about having it in another very specific thread is that the answer will be easier for others to find if they experience similar issues.
Legal disclaimer: I just want to be clear that I am not now (nor would I ever) assist anyone in "cracking" the RISA licensing.
Instead, I am merely offering my expertise in de-bugging common issues that might come up that cause the licensing to function improperly. It's so sad that I have to make that type of statement....
My current version 17.0.4 still says it's up to date. Are you on a subscription already? I am on a physical perpetual license but have the yearly maintenance which has always included the updates. I hope they are simply rolling it out in phases and not trying to steer us into the yearly subscription.
If the "upgrade process" is the same as when I was there, it will take a couple of days to get to everyone.
What I remember is that sending out all the upgrade e-mails at once would get our e-mail address / domain flagged as a spammer. Therefore, we had to limit it to a certain number of e-mails per day or per hour.
User's were grouped, though I don't remember exactly how. Therefore, it is certainly possible that the subscription guys will get their e-mails first.
Yea I havent gotten any email, and the in-program update says 17.0.4 is still the latest. But i've downloaded v18.0.0 from the website and it runs...for the most part :) Looks good though, some bugs as expected, and the director is not operable yet. In my opinion it is effectively in some sort of beta phase at this point.
In my opinion it is effectively in some sort of beta phase at this point.
In which case, this may be something of a "soft release". Like a "soft opening" for a business. They don't fully advertise / promote it, but if you know about it then it's available. Gives them some time to work out any last minute kinks.
My guess is there will be a number of minor (i.e. bug fix) releases. Version 18.0.1 will likely follow in less than a month and take care of any glaring mistakes that they find to be embarrassing. Then another one 18.0.2 that incorporates things less obvious or catastrophic to the user. Maybe even an 18.0.3 that adds bigger things back in (like the director or interaction with other programs).
Where are you all finding it on the website? The only spot I see to download the demo software still has version 17.0.4. I could be overlooking it. All of the webpages and their organization appears to have been updated as well.
Josh, in regards to the soft release, I figured that was the case. Wasn't bashing, just observing. I love RISA so I'm excited either way. I've been waiting for this for months.
I like the detail report expanded calculations but I see they haven't gotten to the seismic detailing stuff quite yet, which would be nice.
There's still a bug from v17 in the column flange bracing force calc when SC/WB < 2.0 (341-10 E3.4c(1)(2)) Looks like it's off by a factor of 100. Should be 2% of the beam flange strength, but it calcs as 200% :). I've got a ticket in. Otherwise I have no idea how to resist the 480kip brace force, aside from putting in a transverse frame hah.
We are dealing with it now. For some users, it just crashes upon opening. I am able to open the program, but when running an RSA analysis for an equipment tower built using 17.0.2, it falls into an infinite spiral of hell - perform dynamic solution, calculate RSA, clears results, perform dynamic solution, calculate RSA, clears results...
When selecting a floor elevation and trying to lock all other portions of the model - crash.
RISA is now working directly with our IT department to determine what is wrong. Our department has become a bunch of beta testers.
Application: RISA3D.exe
Framework Version: v4.0.30319
Description: The process was terminated due to an unhandled exception.
Exception Info: System.AccessViolationException
at <Module>.Glib.ModelView.LockUnselected(Glib.ModelView*)
I thought it was just supposed to be interface as well.... But, you never know these days. My insight into how things worked over there doesn't mean much now.
The turnover in engineering staff from a year or so before Nemetschek took over until now has been REALLY high. Something like 70%. Though that's higher than I would have thought. Perhaps, I'm not remembering everyone who worked in the office correctly. Or, my dates of people leaving / arriving aren't quite right.
Regardless of the exact number, there just aren't very many people left who were truly responsible for the quality product that RISA put out for so many years. Most of the engineers in my group left (except Debbie who is mostly marketing / management) and decent number of US developers left as well. I'm not counting the administrative staff because they're not truly responsible for the technical quality of the product.
That's just the US office though. I have no idea how much turnover there has been in the Ukraine group. That group might be largely intact for all I know.
I was able to stop the crashing, by installing in a different directory(V17 still resides in C:\program files\risa) and also running in Administrator mode(Windows, nothing related to RISA)
Next problem is not liking the network printers we have, the program finds them, but says invalid name.
Also, initializes MUCH slower than 17, I'm on network license.
Lesson learned is never install anything that is a .0.0 version.
Yea I've noticed the initialization and solution 'set up' is quite slow. The actual solutions of the combos is quick, but it takes a while for the solution to get started running. I'm just thankful that v17 didnt get overwritten in the install, otherwise I'd had to have reinstalled v17.
Mimicking others in this thread. DL'ed 18 and was surprised by how it looked relative to 17.
But, going back to 17 (thankfully it wasn't uninstalled) as it just flows so much better for me. 18 is far too clunky/slow with the solutions and in-model selection.
My firm downloaded v18 on two machines last week. Our IT department was able to work out some licensing quirks without too much trouble. I didn't upgrade my workstation yet, but I'm hearing that there are problems with walls that have sloped tops (as at a sloped roof). Also the new version of 3D doesn't allow for switching to RISA Floor to do gravity design, which seems like a strange and important omission.
This summer I brought to their attention that the concrete member optimization wasn't working. In other words, if your concrete member had a UC > 1.0, the program wasn't upsizing the bars, it just reported the UC using the original bar size. I have to wait weeks for IT to get around to installing the new version, so can anyone confirm that the optimization bug still exists or has been fixed? It's not stated in the release notes, but you never know.
When I worked for RISA, there was frequently some tension between the engineering side (me) and the marketing / sales side related to the release notes.
I tried to make sure that anything significant that was changed would be reflected in the release notes. The reason being that I originally worked for an engineering firm with very strict QA/QC policies.
The sales group (which is now running the company) didn't like it when the release notes highlighted the fact that there were "bugs" in the previous version of the software. I had enough standing that a release note about a bug was never truly removed. But, maybe it was re-written, downplayed or combined with another more generic release note.
Given who's running the company right now, I don't personally think the release notes will be very comprehensive or informative related to corrected bugs. Certainly not in the way they used to be. Don't know how this compares to what other software companies are doing.... It may be the newer attitude is closer to what others do.
Josh, I figured as much and the marketing spin doesn’t bother me too much. It only starts to be an issue for me when they switch to a subscription license without a corresponding improvement in product development and responsiveness.
Started first project in 18 a few days ago. So far not a good experience at all. Very slow and clunky. Always waiting any time I push a button. Many quirks in the display and just use overall. Doesn't interface with the other programs in the RISA family. This version does not appear to be ready for distribution from what I've seen so far. RISA and Josh and Bruce and their team have always been great to work with. Sad to see them go. I hope the issues with 18 are corrected soon. Together with the new subscription model it's beginning to look like we may have to at least explore other options soon. What was a great and affordable tool for a small office may not be anymore.
Together with the new subscription model it's beginning to look like we may have to at least explore other options soon. What was a great and affordable tool for a small office may not be anymore.
We've started discussing that in our office a well. I'm not ready to abandon ship yet, but I'd like to at least know where to look for the best piece of driftwood.
Just finished the webinar titled "Experience the All New RISA-3D". Oh boy. The moderator ran through that webinar faster than a speeding ticket. Maybe slow down a bit when launching a whole new user interface. Yikes!
Just finished the webinar titled "Experience the All New RISA-3D". Oh boy. The moderator ran through that webinar faster than a speeding ticket. Maybe slow down a bit when launching a whole new user interface. Yikes!
I participated too...way too fast. I shall need to re-watch the webinar to gain any useful tips.
I am also looking at alternatives to RISA, as now (under new ownership) they only permit subscription-based for new users. Looking at Visual Analysis.
We've been trying version 18 over the last few days. We have found it to be very slow to manipulate data in version 18. Sometimes excluding members creates a problem and the data is never sorted causing a program lockup that I can only abort using the task manager. The expanded equation views work on my computer but they don't seem to work on my coworkers computer. The report printing often prints a section over another so that they are not legible. His key manager had to be updated, mine did not. Just a bunch of quirky problems to the point that it isn't really usable.
I used it for 2 days and felt it was so clunky and slow I uninstalled it and went back to version 17. In my opinion it was nowhere near ready to be released. I'm intrigued by some of the features they added, but I think they will lose more users than they will gain due to them pushing it out before it was even close to ready. Perhaps if they actually did a true beta release I would be more forgiving, but I didn't see anything indicating that this was their intent. I am already beginning to miss the days of JoshPlum and the true engineers running the show at RISA. We will probably be considering other options in the future if RISA continues on the path it is headed.
I also saw no mention in the release notes that they had fixed an error we found with their single angle calculations. RISA support acknowledged it was an error and that it would be fixed too. In the past they would email you to let you know that it had been fixed if you reported the error.
In my opinion it was nowhere near ready to be released
This is surprising because historically RISA has been slow to push out new versions - and when they do the software has had minimal errors.
This is compared with RAM who always seemed to push out updates, revisions, etc....many times a year...only to follow up with multiple corrections.
I'm busy tonight so I'll need to revisit this; I want to collect my thoughts more anyway and experiment with more things.
Short version is I'm not impressed; some UI quality of life changes are appreciated but the overall usability of the program has decreased overall. Creating a simple 2D frame now is twice as long and I ran into multiple bugs or quirks. Reported them to RISA and supposedly they'll be addressed shortly but it definitely seems like this wasn't ready for prime time.
Agreed with the above that I'm definitely not jumping ship yet but RISA's done a bad job if I'm considering looking around at what else is available.
Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL, CO) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)
This is surprising because historically RISA has been slow to push out new versions - and when they do the software has had minimal errors
Historically, this was probably true. But, remember it is pretty much a different company now. New management, lots of turnover in staff. What has been historically true before may not be true going forward. In my opinion, this latest release is probably the best judge of how the company will perform going forward.
Caveat: I'm one of the "turnover in staff" that occurred when new management took over. So, I'm not exactly an unbiased observer. Especially concerning opinions about the new management. Also, I now work for one of their competitors. Therefore, understand there is certainly some bias in my opinions.
Hi JoshPlum (Structural)!
I really liked your review of the programs "Risa 3d Alternate?" https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=439252.
Is it worth updating? We must look for an alternative RISA-3D v.18 - New format ?
I’ve used RISA since the late 1980’s and have always loved it. V 18, we found is glitchy and messed up our work flow so we are currently sticking with v 17 with the hopes that they get the bugs worked out soon.
The only change really is that I now work for CSi / SAP. I think a lot of the problems I had with their interface have gone away now that I'm using it regularly. I think this can probably be said about most of the programs (even RISA). Once you get used to a particular interface and how that program does things, it's difficult to switch. You lose some productivity during the switch. That's true whether you switch from the old RISA interface to the new one. Or, from RISA to SAP or whatever.
Generally speaking, I like the updates and the new feel of the software.
The "selection" method has now changed such that, by default, members are unselected as opposed to selected. This will take some getting used to. V17 (and previous) was great in that you could unselect a member/node simply by clicking on it or using one of the line/window batch functions, resulting in a still slightly visible phantom version of the element(s); very handy when wanting to cut through congestion to focus on an isolated element or group of elements but still have a flavor for the overall spatial assembly. Now there is no "phantom" feature, so you either have to select and lock a member to get it out of the way (removes it entirely from view, no phantom/shadow), or flag it as inactive, which is of course not ideal.
All in all, I don't have any major qualms with the UI after having worked in it for a couple weeks.
That said, there are still some troubling bugs to be worked out, significant enough to erode confidence a bit. While I love RISA's effort to provide expanded Detail Reports, as recently as this past week the program was reporting the wrong equivalent rectangular stress block for reinforced concrete sections, and was calculating incorrect Cp factors for wood design so as to result in an overestimation of flexural capacity (and a corresponding lower reported UC). These are obviously important items that need to be addressed sooner than later.
Hi All!
I watched a very interesting movie WEBINAR: Experience the All-New RISA-3D (January 17, 2020) https://risa.com/post/webinar-experience-the-all-n...
I really liked it. Really very convenient and quick calculations. Very convenient and detailed reports.
I download and install demo version (install_3d_demo_1704), but a see old user interface. How to enable new UI in program?
AFreeM
Not really strange i dont think? That's how it has always been. The demos are essentially fully unlocked versions of the prior full version with some limitations (e.g. saving models with over 40 joints, etc).
dold (Structural)
It is strange that I can not download demo RISA-3D V.18, with a new UI. I cannot enable new UI in demo v.17.04. I can only watch movies and this is strange.
It's definitely a strange choice by RISA. Perhaps another indication that this release was a bit "rushed".
Now, technically, it's not all that strange. Some thoughts on the "Demo Versions". For years, the demo version of the program and the release version of the program were identical. It's just that if the licensing info wasn't detected, then the program invoked the demo limitations. Meaning you couldn't save a model larger than 40 nodes, or 40 members or such.
Then some clever hackers used this pirate the software. They were able to snip out the save limitations on the demo. Granted, you still had "Demo" shown on any print outs. But, it was a concern. For that reason, the demo was modified to be a totally separate executable. That way it was impossible to snip out the save limits.
Now, as I understand it, v18.0 is a complete rewrite of the program's interface. What's more, is this new version of the interface was done entirely (as I understand it) by the Ukrainian group of developers. So, any one who was truly involved in RISA-3D's main development was not really involved. Therefore, once the new program looked "finished" they likely had a number of minor issues to work out.... Interaction between programs, wiring up the licensing, creating the ability to dumb down the program into a Demo version, etc. So, it makes sense that some of this stuff is imperfect or missing.... At least it makes sense to me.
Usual caveats about my being a former RISA employee and my views being biased based on some not so nice feelings about how my term there ended.....
JoshPlumSE (Structural)
Thank you very much for clarifying the situation.
I Understanddemo version is absent.
But how can we evaluate the work of the program only by watching movie files?
I have to look for alternative RISA-3D.
This is a temporary problem. They will get the demo's up and running again in some form.
Also, I suspect that if you called them and explained the problem they would give you a temporary license for the full version. Maybe limited to 30 or 60 days or something.
I don't believe we're supposed to share our e-mails on the Eng-Tips forum. Though I have contacted (or been contacted by) a number of Eng-Tips users via LinkedIn messages. So, if you know the persons name, you might start there....
dold (Structural)
RISA 3D Net v.18 Not interesting at all. Our company has already bought software licenses. Thanks to JoshPlumSE (Structural) for his review. I really liked your review of the programs "Risa 3d Alternate?" https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=439252.
RISA team - Great job! I wish you a large number of sales!
My personal opinion is - the demo RISA 3D Net v.18 - is a complete failure of the author OlderEngr (Structural) (Bruce Bates Founder of RISA Technologies)
I am using v18.0. I want to rotate the view 90 degrees, not the actual model. Dumb question: I didn't see this addressed above. For some reason my colleagues and I cannot find a way to rotate the view 90 degrees to match the view on our drawings. There appears to be no button in the ribbon. Can someone assist?
You should create a new post. This one is pretty much played out. And, is more focused not so much on specific issues, but on broad perspective issues related to the new interface.
PS I don't know the answer to your question. I might try to download the v18 demo one of these days and look into it. Keep in mind, however, that the new interface will be as foreign to me as it is to you guys. I may have been giving a "sneak peek" 3 or 4 years ago. But, that was a VERY early version of the program and I never was allowed to really poke at it.
I am a long time RISA3D user. Just used v18.0.3 for two projects in the last month.
The new format is great - definitely a modern GUI.
However, there are some bugs with presentation and printing that, if I had known in advance, I would have waited for the next release.
Almost.
Have been a Risa user for many years. Not impressed with new interface. It takes too long to open, slow in accepting new inputs into the spreadsheet, takes longer to run on smaller models. Takes two clicks to get anything done. Most of the engineers in my office opt for using the older version because they know where the buttons are on the tool bar they have customized. The lack of interface with RisaFloor and RisaFoundation is a mistake. Should not have rolled out the upgrade without these interfaces. Particularly RisaFloor. Overall I am disappointed and frustrated. I think the people in charge of the new interface should have known an old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it."
I just used the new version for the first time this week. It has serious issues with lagging after every click or operation. A 3 hour job took me all day because I was just waiting 3-5 seconds after each click. I wanted to throw my computer out the window by the time I finished.
After doing something as simple as changing a member size in the section set spreadsheet, this message pops up while the program churns for 45 seconds and my computer's fan goes on full blast:
Just FYI as far as speed - one of the guys in our office happened to change the settings from multicore to single core processing. I don't know if it's machine specific or not, but it virtually eliminated all the lag he had been experiencing during input. Not sure how it will affect actual number crunching just yet.
one of the guys in our office happened to change the settings from multicore to single core processing.
Wow! I'm shocked. RISA has been dabbling in multi-threading for a number of years. Therefore, I wouldn't have thought they would have biffed it on something like this.
I hope you reported this to them. Maybe that will help them identify and fix the issue.
Josh - Have not reported yet. Waiting a bit to see if it runs the solution okay and to try it out on another machine, but it definitely sped up the input delays on at least one of ours.
Has the general consensus moved more in favor of the new RISA, or is everyone still wrestling with bugs? I loved the old RISA, and I'm looking into 3D analysis software. I've been using SkyCiv - it's really good for a "young" program, but there is a lot of functionality missing that I'm used to being standard/editable background on RISA (stability checks, for instance), and I just noticed the price point is a lot closer than I previously realized.
I’ve been using v17 of RISA since my first and only project using v18 was quite a bad experience. The final straw is that v18 is not integrated with RISAFoundation, which really limits its usefulness. For now I’m content with v17 and waiting/hoping that they iron out some of the major issues with their new software platform. I’ve been training on RAM as a hedge in case RISA continues to cause me productivity issues. The other day I ran a RISA3D model and switched over to its foundation model only to find it was completely empty— several hours of modeling work just inexplicably wiped out.
They should allow you to download / install version 17 if you are a new user. Some background:
When I worked for RISA (a few years ago now), they were getting ready to get rid of CDs and manuals and such and go entirely electronic. So, as a part of that they could no longer tell people with old versions, "Sorry, we can't send you an installation routine for that because we no longer have the CD's and we don't post those old installs to our website".
They vowed to always make those older installations available on their website. You might have to contact them, but that they'd always be there. Now, this was when the company was under different (much more customer focused) ownership. Therefore, they may have changed this policy again. I would ask them before you purchase to be 100% certain.
I should also mention that (IMHO), RISA is now a company driven by the SALES group. Not the engineering or development groups. As such, if you tell the sales person that you need something particular (like the v17 or v16 installs) to complete the sale and give them your money, my impression is they will bend over backwards to do it. But, if you wait until AFTER they already have your money.... They may not be willing to help.
I don't know anything for certain anymore. After all, I've been gone from there for a few years now. It's a very different company culture than it was during most of my 16 years working there.
Oh yeah.... Since I said something negative about the company, I should have concluded my post with a statement of bias.
My employment with RISA ended with some bad feelings between me and the current management. And, I currently work for one of their competitors now. So, my comments are my opinion only. Understanding that this opinion does not come from a neutral perspective, but may be influenced by my personal biases.
There are still good people who work there (especially in the development group). So, I don't want to say that it's all bad. Just not what it used to be.
Thanks, Josh. Good advice on timing for the request.
Though I've only been active here for about a year, I've been on the site for a bit longer and have witnessed the evolution of your sentiments toward RISA. I appreciate the honesty and openness with which you frame all of your opinions regarding the structural software development market.
Wish I had read this post before I spent quite some time trying to figure out integration issues that would have been simply solved by using an older version of RISA-3D. A recent project required my company to purchase and use RISAFoundation and RISAFloor. I kept trying to integrate between these programs and v18 of RISA-3D and always crashing or running into errors. After some back and forth with support, they finally told me that v18 doesn't support RISA suite integration... Bummer
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RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Love the graphical select tool as well.
S&T
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
1) The biggest issue for most users when switching to a new software is learning a new interface. So, if the interface is too different from the old interface, that may take away any barrier for existing users to switch to another program. If this is a totally new interface that doesn't "feel" like the old RISA, then the effort spent learning the new interface could easily be spent learning a different program.... Especially, if the new sales restrictions (they refuse to sell the software anymore, but force you to rent it).
2) Didn't STAAD have a STAAD-X program / interface that was supposed to be the big new thing that no one ended up liking or using? My sense is that the RISA folks are "all in" on this interface more than the STAAD / Bentley guys were for STAAD-X. But,it is definitely a major change and it will be interesting to see what the user base thinks of it.
3) This should be a really good way of judging the new RISA / Nemetschek management. While this program was in development while I still worked there, none of the folks who were "pushed out" of RISA (when the new management fully took over) had much to do with this project. And, the programming was done by an entirely different group from overseas. Therefore, if this is a train wreck, then it tells you a lot about the downward direction RISA would likely take in future years. If it is absolutely great then it would likely mean that new management has 'proven themselves' to the user base.
Statement of bias: I worked for RISA for 16 years starting in 2002 and was the former Vice President. I was one of the people that was "pushed out" when new management took over. Also, I now have a job with a competitor. Therefore, I am no where near an unbiased observer.
That being said, I am not trying to trash RISA in any way here. Just sharing the aspects of this thread that are most interesting to me.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I like the full time properties window they demonstrated. The ability to select a member from the spreadsheet is nice too.
I have always found the tech support (including Josh) and the customer service great. I hope that continues under the new ownership.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I've been using RISA since the mid 1980's (the old DOS 2d version). If you recall the "R" in RISA stands for RAPID.
If the new interface isn't nearly as rapid as the old, as an old user, I'd be a bit flustered and frustrated and, as you suggest, consider other products.
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RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I remember back when I had a lot of discussions with Bruce (the original owner of RISA) about how many customers RISA "lost" when the Windows version came out. I put the word "lost" in quotes because many of them continued to use the old DOS version rather than learn a new interface. Then when Windows XP came out and the DOS users ran into compatibility problems many came back and bought the new version.
This transition will be a little different. Users who have switched over to the "subscription" system would not be able to continue to use their old programs unless they continued paying their subscriptions. That's one of the reasons why subscription licenses are so much better for the software companies....
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Is it just me? Not at my desk, but I could have sworn I've done that before.
----
just call me Lo.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I guess I'm one of the easily impressed!
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Personally I love the new interface. Much credit to Debbie Penko for the look and feel of it, and to Mike Stoop, Christine Li and Alex, Yuriy and the Ukraine group for the hard work developing the code, as well as many others who've made big contributions. Of course, Amber Freund, RISA Tech's CEO, also deserves a lot of credit for shepherding this behemoth across the finish line. This new architecture is rock solid and may last another 20 years.
Generally speaking, RISA has never been stronger. Amber is a much better manager than I ever was, and she is taking RISA to the next level. Nemetschek is a very supportive parent, opening the door for many opportunities RISA could not have pursued as a stand alone company. I sleep well at night knowing RISA is in good hands.
Bruce Bates
Founder of RISA Technologies
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I've always been one to enjoy change though.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
https://risa.com/secure/workshop/?utm_source=RISA+...
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Meaning if they tell you they're 3 days away, then you can expect it to be six weeks or so. If they're six weeks away, then expect it in 12 months. RISA has gotten a lot better at release estimates when Amber started running things. But, I still share this since I think it points out how unwise it is to rely on release date estimates... from ANY software company.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
There were speed signs posted for oncoming curves on the highway with recommended "safe" speeds.
The rule of thumb was if it said the curve speed was recommended at 45 mph, you could double it and subtract 10 mph to see what you really can take it at.
So a 45 mph would be 80 mph.
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RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
If it were not for the obstinacy and backwardness of the leadership in Kiev with the new version RISA 3D v18 NET it could have been done better and faster. Particularly worried about the stability of the new program, its adaptation to new computer hardware, especially to new video card NVidia and AMD, 4000K and 8000K displays.
About parallel computing speech does not go. There are no modern 3D display technologies.
What to pay more for?
Best regards...
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Wow, I'm surprised to hear someone say something so.... opinionated. I have to admit that I'm trying to figure out who you might be! Because for you to have inside knowledge of the "obstinacy and backwardness" of the Kiev group, I suspect that I may have worked with you in the past. Interesting....
I worked with the Kiev group when I was the project lead for various releases of the RISAConnection program. This was a much smaller group, of course, and had very little interaction with the developers who were re-writing RISA-3D for this new release. But, my experience with them was almost entirely positive. They were good, smart people (smarter than I am for sure!). The only drawback is they didn't know anything about structural engineering. But, that's why it was important to have someone like me working with them to make sure that the engineering side of it was handled correctly. I suppose, part of it could be that the internal architecture of the program was already set. Therefore, there would be little conflict related to that.... especially from me.
On a different note, I would kindly suggest that you tone down your comments somewhat. Nemetschek, as I understand it, is very protective of their brand. And, that could certainly include being litigious if they feel on-line statements could threaten their brand or their profitability. Honestly, even if everything you say is true, they can still harass you with the legal process and force you to spend lots of money to defend yourself.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Meanwhile, I will continue using the Risa products I have until my toggle key allows it. I already have some problems starting directly the Connection and Foundations programs; I have to access them via the Risa3D integration. For the future I am trying other possibilities like Robot (many features but much of them somehow difficult to find), Nemetschek's own Scia (too many buttons), Midas, Etc. By the way, the standard software used here in my country is Etabs (or Sap2000). Maybe I will have to join that trend…
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I would be plenty happen to help you if your run into any problem. It may have to be on the evenings or weekends as I have other work during the week. While I'm not as "up to speed" on tech support issues as I was a couple of years ago, I did spend 16 years there and almost certainly know more about their hardware key licensing than anyone that currently works there.
That being said, please ask any questions like this in a new / future thread (or privately if you don't want to publicly share). The nice thing about having it in another very specific thread is that the answer will be easier for others to find if they experience similar issues.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Instead, I am merely offering my expertise in de-bugging common issues that might come up that cause the licensing to function improperly. It's so sad that I have to make that type of statement....
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
www.hellodwell.design
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
My current version 17.0.4 still says it's up to date. Are you on a subscription already? I am on a physical perpetual license but have the yearly maintenance which has always included the updates. I hope they are simply rolling it out in phases and not trying to steer us into the yearly subscription.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
What I remember is that sending out all the upgrade e-mails at once would get our e-mail address / domain flagged as a spammer. Therefore, we had to limit it to a certain number of e-mails per day or per hour.
User's were grouped, though I don't remember exactly how. Therefore, it is certainly possible that the subscription guys will get their e-mails first.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
My guess is there will be a number of minor (i.e. bug fix) releases. Version 18.0.1 will likely follow in less than a month and take care of any glaring mistakes that they find to be embarrassing. Then another one 18.0.2 that incorporates things less obvious or catastrophic to the user. Maybe even an 18.0.3 that adds bigger things back in (like the director or interaction with other programs).
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
https://secure.risa.com/index/downloads
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Thanks. I'll check it out.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I like the detail report expanded calculations but I see they haven't gotten to the seismic detailing stuff quite yet, which would be nice.
There's still a bug from v17 in the column flange bracing force calc when SC/WB < 2.0 (341-10 E3.4c(1)(2)) Looks like it's off by a factor of 100. Should be 2% of the beam flange strength, but it calcs as 200% :). I've got a ticket in. Otherwise I have no idea how to resist the 480kip brace force, aside from putting in a transverse frame hah.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
When selecting a floor elevation and trying to lock all other portions of the model - crash.
RISA is now working directly with our IT department to determine what is wrong. Our department has become a bunch of beta testers.
Application: RISA3D.exe
Framework Version: v4.0.30319
Description: The process was terminated due to an unhandled exception.
Exception Info: System.AccessViolationException
at <Module>.Glib.ModelView.LockUnselected(Glib.ModelView*)
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
The turnover in engineering staff from a year or so before Nemetschek took over until now has been REALLY high. Something like 70%. Though that's higher than I would have thought. Perhaps, I'm not remembering everyone who worked in the office correctly. Or, my dates of people leaving / arriving aren't quite right.
Regardless of the exact number, there just aren't very many people left who were truly responsible for the quality product that RISA put out for so many years. Most of the engineers in my group left (except Debbie who is mostly marketing / management) and decent number of US developers left as well. I'm not counting the administrative staff because they're not truly responsible for the technical quality of the product.
That's just the US office though. I have no idea how much turnover there has been in the Ukraine group. That group might be largely intact for all I know.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Next problem is not liking the network printers we have, the program finds them, but says invalid name.
Also, initializes MUCH slower than 17, I'm on network license.
Lesson learned is never install anything that is a .0.0 version.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
But, going back to 17 (thankfully it wasn't uninstalled) as it just flows so much better for me. 18 is far too clunky/slow with the solutions and in-model selection.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I tried to make sure that anything significant that was changed would be reflected in the release notes. The reason being that I originally worked for an engineering firm with very strict QA/QC policies.
The sales group (which is now running the company) didn't like it when the release notes highlighted the fact that there were "bugs" in the previous version of the software. I had enough standing that a release note about a bug was never truly removed. But, maybe it was re-written, downplayed or combined with another more generic release note.
Given who's running the company right now, I don't personally think the release notes will be very comprehensive or informative related to corrected bugs. Certainly not in the way they used to be. Don't know how this compares to what other software companies are doing.... It may be the newer attitude is closer to what others do.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
We've started discussing that in our office a well. I'm not ready to abandon ship yet, but I'd like to at least know where to look for the best piece of driftwood.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I participated too...way too fast. I shall need to re-watch the webinar to gain any useful tips.
I am also looking at alternatives to RISA, as now (under new ownership) they only permit subscription-based for new users. Looking at Visual Analysis.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Is this what others are experiencing?
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I also saw no mention in the release notes that they had fixed an error we found with their single angle calculations. RISA support acknowledged it was an error and that it would be fixed too. In the past they would email you to let you know that it had been fixed if you reported the error.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
This is surprising because historically RISA has been slow to push out new versions - and when they do the software has had minimal errors.
This is compared with RAM who always seemed to push out updates, revisions, etc....many times a year...only to follow up with multiple corrections.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Short version is I'm not impressed; some UI quality of life changes are appreciated but the overall usability of the program has decreased overall. Creating a simple 2D frame now is twice as long and I ran into multiple bugs or quirks. Reported them to RISA and supposedly they'll be addressed shortly but it definitely seems like this wasn't ready for prime time.
Agreed with the above that I'm definitely not jumping ship yet but RISA's done a bad job if I'm considering looking around at what else is available.
Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL, CO) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Historically, this was probably true. But, remember it is pretty much a different company now. New management, lots of turnover in staff. What has been historically true before may not be true going forward. In my opinion, this latest release is probably the best judge of how the company will perform going forward.
Caveat: I'm one of the "turnover in staff" that occurred when new management took over. So, I'm not exactly an unbiased observer. Especially concerning opinions about the new management. Also, I now work for one of their competitors. Therefore, understand there is certainly some bias in my opinions.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I really liked your review of the programs "Risa 3d Alternate?" https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=439252.
Is it worth updating? We must look for an alternative RISA-3D v.18 - New format ?
Amicus Plato, sed magis arnica Veritas
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
The only change really is that I now work for CSi / SAP. I think a lot of the problems I had with their interface have gone away now that I'm using it regularly. I think this can probably be said about most of the programs (even RISA). Once you get used to a particular interface and how that program does things, it's difficult to switch. You lose some productivity during the switch. That's true whether you switch from the old RISA interface to the new one. Or, from RISA to SAP or whatever.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
The "selection" method has now changed such that, by default, members are unselected as opposed to selected. This will take some getting used to. V17 (and previous) was great in that you could unselect a member/node simply by clicking on it or using one of the line/window batch functions, resulting in a still slightly visible phantom version of the element(s); very handy when wanting to cut through congestion to focus on an isolated element or group of elements but still have a flavor for the overall spatial assembly. Now there is no "phantom" feature, so you either have to select and lock a member to get it out of the way (removes it entirely from view, no phantom/shadow), or flag it as inactive, which is of course not ideal.
All in all, I don't have any major qualms with the UI after having worked in it for a couple weeks.
That said, there are still some troubling bugs to be worked out, significant enough to erode confidence a bit. While I love RISA's effort to provide expanded Detail Reports, as recently as this past week the program was reporting the wrong equivalent rectangular stress block for reinforced concrete sections, and was calculating incorrect Cp factors for wood design so as to result in an overestimation of flexural capacity (and a corresponding lower reported UC). These are obviously important items that need to be addressed sooner than later.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I really truly hope they get this stuff ironed out soon.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I watched a very interesting movie
WEBINAR: Experience the All-New RISA-3D (January 17, 2020) https://risa.com/post/webinar-experience-the-all-n...
I really liked it. Really very convenient and quick calculations. Very convenient and detailed reports.
I download and install demo version (install_3d_demo_1704), but a see old user interface.
How to enable new UI in program?
Amicus Plato, sed magis arnica Veritas
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Demos are for the previous version. You won't be able to demo v18, as far as I'm aware.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Demo RISA-3D v.18 exists or only a movie? How to download it?
Amicus Plato, sed magis arnica Veritas
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Unfortunately, only (install_3d_demo_1704) and movies and this is strange.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Not really strange i dont think? That's how it has always been. The demos are essentially fully unlocked versions of the prior full version with some limitations (e.g. saving models with over 40 joints, etc).
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
It is strange that I can not download demo RISA-3D V.18, with a new UI. I cannot enable new UI in demo v.17.04. I can only watch movies and this is strange.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
It's definitely a strange choice by RISA. Perhaps another indication that this release was a bit "rushed".
Now, technically, it's not all that strange. Some thoughts on the "Demo Versions". For years, the demo version of the program and the release version of the program were identical. It's just that if the licensing info wasn't detected, then the program invoked the demo limitations. Meaning you couldn't save a model larger than 40 nodes, or 40 members or such.
Then some clever hackers used this pirate the software. They were able to snip out the save limitations on the demo. Granted, you still had "Demo" shown on any print outs. But, it was a concern. For that reason, the demo was modified to be a totally separate executable. That way it was impossible to snip out the save limits.
Now, as I understand it, v18.0 is a complete rewrite of the program's interface. What's more, is this new version of the interface was done entirely (as I understand it) by the Ukrainian group of developers. So, any one who was truly involved in RISA-3D's main development was not really involved. Therefore, once the new program looked "finished" they likely had a number of minor issues to work out.... Interaction between programs, wiring up the licensing, creating the ability to dumb down the program into a Demo version, etc. So, it makes sense that some of this stuff is imperfect or missing.... At least it makes sense to me.
Usual caveats about my being a former RISA employee and my views being biased based on some not so nice feelings about how my term there ended.....
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Thank you very much for clarifying the situation.
I Understand demo version is absent.
But how can we evaluate the work of the program only by watching movie files?
I have to look for alternative RISA-3D.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
This is a temporary problem. They will get the demo's up and running again in some form.
Also, I suspect that if you called them and explained the problem they would give you a temporary license for the full version. Maybe limited to 30 or 60 days or something.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I don't believe we're supposed to share our e-mails on the Eng-Tips forum. Though I have contacted (or been contacted by) a number of Eng-Tips users via LinkedIn messages. So, if you know the persons name, you might start there....
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
It looks like you can now download a v18 demo. Save functionality is completely removed however.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RISA 3D Net v.18 Not interesting at all. Our company has already bought software licenses. Thanks to JoshPlumSE (Structural) for his review. I really liked your review of the programs "Risa 3d Alternate?" https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=439252.
RISA team - Great job! I wish you a large number of sales!
My personal opinion is - the demo RISA 3D Net v.18 - is a complete failure of the author OlderEngr (Structural) (Bruce Bates Founder of RISA Technologies)
Amicus Plato, sed magis amica Veritas
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
You should create a new post. This one is pretty much played out. And, is more focused not so much on specific issues, but on broad perspective issues related to the new interface.
PS I don't know the answer to your question. I might try to download the v18 demo one of these days and look into it. Keep in mind, however, that the new interface will be as foreign to me as it is to you guys. I may have been giving a "sneak peek" 3 or 4 years ago. But, that was a VERY early version of the program and I never was allowed to really poke at it.
Josh
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
The new format is great - definitely a modern GUI.
However, there are some bugs with presentation and printing that, if I had known in advance, I would have waited for the next release.
Almost.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
After doing something as simple as changing a member size in the section set spreadsheet, this message pops up while the program churns for 45 seconds and my computer's fan goes on full blast:
I hope they fix the lag issue soon.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Wow! I'm shocked. RISA has been dabbling in multi-threading for a number of years. Therefore, I wouldn't have thought they would have biffed it on something like this.
I hope you reported this to them. Maybe that will help them identify and fix the issue.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
When I worked for RISA (a few years ago now), they were getting ready to get rid of CDs and manuals and such and go entirely electronic. So, as a part of that they could no longer tell people with old versions, "Sorry, we can't send you an installation routine for that because we no longer have the CD's and we don't post those old installs to our website".
They vowed to always make those older installations available on their website. You might have to contact them, but that they'd always be there. Now, this was when the company was under different (much more customer focused) ownership. Therefore, they may have changed this policy again. I would ask them before you purchase to be 100% certain.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
I don't know anything for certain anymore. After all, I've been gone from there for a few years now. It's a very different company culture than it was during most of my 16 years working there.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
My employment with RISA ended with some bad feelings between me and the current management. And, I currently work for one of their competitors now. So, my comments are my opinion only. Understanding that this opinion does not come from a neutral perspective, but may be influenced by my personal biases.
There are still good people who work there (especially in the development group). So, I don't want to say that it's all bad. Just not what it used to be.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format
Though I've only been active here for about a year, I've been on the site for a bit longer and have witnessed the evolution of your sentiments toward RISA. I appreciate the honesty and openness with which you frame all of your opinions regarding the structural software development market.
RE: RISA 3d v 18 - New format