Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Are angles really only 36ksi?

Are angles really only 36ksi?

Are angles really only 36ksi?

Back when the switch to 50ksi for wide flanges was occurring, it was widely known that the mills were rolling only 50ksi wide flanges, but stamping them as A36 and A572 for 36ksi and 50ksi requirements, as needed.

I have some just-fabricated new steel angles that need to be modified. Does anyone know if the mills routinely roll angles at higher grades, but call them A36? I'm curious whether I have a chance to take advantage of some higher strength. If there's a decent shot, I'll send off a coupon to be tested...

-5^2 = -25 winky smile


RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

There's a high chance. We've been able to get mill certs for the angles showing the dual certification. Thus allowing us to use 50ksi to get some projects out of a bind within the last few months.

As the good advice says, you'll never know until you ask.

RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

It is my understanding that A36 often has yield strengths when tested that are int the 40-50 ksi range (not the same thing as if it were dual certified as both A36 and A572 as you are talking about). Can you get the mill certifications for the angle you have from the supplier?

RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

To add to what dauwerda said, ASTM A36 does not impose a maximum yield strength. That is what allows it to be dual certified since it meets the minimum yield strength requirements for A36 and A572.

We specify 50 ksi for all angles and channels. It results in smaller members not governed by deflection and have not had any issues procuring that steel.

RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

Up here in the great white north someone has told me that they've pretty much stopped fabricating anything to the 300W (44ksi) and all of the new stuff meets 350W (50 ksi). But when in doubt, if they're newly fabricated, just ask for the mill certs.

RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to get the mill certs, as this was a field problem that needed fixing quickly. Thank you all for your replies. As a bonus, I'm including the official response I received from AISC:

"I have addressed your question below in red:

Mills in the past rolled 50ksi wide flanges and stamped them both A36 and A572 because they met both specs. Is this true for angles today? I am not sure, but I suspect that there are dual- (and perhaps even multi-) certified angles on the market today. Note that dual- and multi-certified wide-flange sections are still available. If you want to purchase a wide flange section certified to ASTM A36 I believe this is possible. The section will also likely satisfy A572 and A992.

Do angles rolled today have a consistently higher yield than 36ksi? Yes. Steel sections have to satisfy the minimum strength requirements of the ASTM standards, so all sections will be produced “to have a consistently higher yield” than the minimum specified. If this were not done the natural variations in the process would require producers to scrap an unacceptable amount of material it produces. Not all angles produced today will have yields equal to or exceeding 50 ksi.

The following article states:

“The preferred material specification for these shapes is in transition. ASTM A36 (Fy = 36 ksi, Fu = 58 ksi) is now only slightly more common than 50-ksi grades like ASTM A529 Grade 50, ASTM A572 Grade 50, or ASTM A992; each of these 50-ksi grades has Fy = 50 ksi and Fu = 65 ksi for these shapes. The availability and cost-effectiveness of M-shapes and S-shapes in grades other than those listed should be confirmed prior to their specification. M-shapes and S-shapes with a higher yield and tensile strength can be obtained by specifying ASTM A529 Grade 55, ASTM A572 Grades 55, 60 and 65 or ASTM A913 Grades 60, 65 or 70. Atmospheric corrosion resistance (weathering characteristics) can be obtained by specifying ASTM A588 Grade 50. These and other material specifications applicable to M-shapes and S-shapes are shown in Table 2-4… The preceding comments for M-shapes and S-shapes apply equally to angles.”


Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Larry S. Muir, P.E.
American Institute of Steel Construction

How did we do? Your opinion matters to us: www.aisc.org/TellAISC for your chance to win a free Steel Construction Manual!

This document has been prepared in accordance with information made available to the American Institute of Steel Construction at the time of its preparation. While it is believed to be accurate, it has not been prepared for conventional use as an engineering other information or construction document and should not be used or relied upon for any specific application without competent professional examination and verification of its accuracy, suitability, and applicability by a licensed engineer, architect or other professional. AISC disclaims any liability arising from information provided by others or from the unauthorized use of the information contained in this document."

-5^2 = -25 winky smile


RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

All the angle we buy comes certified to multiple grades, of which A572-50 is included.

RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

If in doubt and it's critical, send a coupon and do some tensile tests in a lab.

RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

Watch out with using coupon test results; they may only be used to classify the steel to a certain specification. The minimum values for strength for the specification would still need to be used (not the coupon test results) (Cl. 5.1.2 S16-14). Angles can be double certified, but you have to check with the mill.

RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

I've heard that AISC will start using 50 ksi for angles in the next Manual. Maybe for plates also.

RE: Are angles really only 36ksi?

I'm surprised you can't get a mill cert. Perhaps I'm spoiled by working on DOT projects; ,mill certs have to come with the delivery otherwise no payment. Money talks.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


eBook - Integrating the Engineering Ecosystem
Aras Innovator provides multiple options for integrating data between systems, depending on the scenario. Utilizing the right approach to meet specific business requirements is vital. These needs range from authoring tools, federating data from various and dissimilar databases, and triggering processes and workflows. Download Now
Research Report - Simulation-Driven Design for SOLIDWORKS Users
In this engineering.com research report, we discuss the rising role of simulation and the paradigm shift commonly called the democratization of simulation. In particular, we focus on how SOLIDWORKS users can take advantage of simulation-driven design through two analysis tools: SOLIDWORKS Simulation and 3DEXPERIENCE WORKS. Download Now
White Paper - Industry 4.0 and the Future of Engineering Education
With industries becoming more automated, more tech-driven and more complex, engineers need to keep their skills and knowledge up to date in order to stay on top of this wave—and to be prepared for the Industry 4.0 future. The University of Cincinnati offers two online Master of Engineering degree programs designed specifically for practicing engineers. Download Now
eBook - The Design Gridlock Manifesto
In this eBook, you’ll learn 6 ways old CAD technology slows your company down and hear how design teams have put those problems to rest. “The Design Gridlock Manifesto” shares first-hand modern CAD experiences from 15 companies around the world. Download Now

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close