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# Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 198421

## Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

(OP)
Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this book?

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

(OP)
Thanks for the response KootK. Unfortunately nobody at Butler knows how
to a copy. Tried Amazon and EBAY, but no luck.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

Yuck. Glad I got my copy while the getting was good.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

Actually, I have the email address that you need in my archives. Go to my profiles, see if you can figure out how to contact me, and I'll hook you up. And send me $500 cash and a bottle scotch please. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 (OP) KootK, Gee that's a bargin. I'll try to contact you. Thanks. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 ntpe, Do you want a paper copy or an pdf copy? I have 5 or so mint paper copies that I would be willing to let go at a very reasonable cost, if you want paper copies. The other version mentioned is a very good pdf copy which I also recommend. Jim ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 #### Quote (JAE) KootK, You might send that over to SlideRuleEra to get on his site: http://www.slideruleera.net I would be happy to if we're confident that this is public domain now. Are we? ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 I'd be interested in pdf copy too if it's out there. Moreso out of curiosity than any project need at the moment. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 KootK - Send it over, I know how to tell if it is in the public domain... about 10 years ago the Portland Cement Association taught me that I needed to educate myself about basic applied copyright law. But that is another story... with a happy ending, fortunately. How big is the .pdf file? ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 KootK and SRE ... I’ll leave it up to you two to work out whether it is Public Domain or not as I wouldn’t know. Check out Eng-Tips Forum's Policies here: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 Ideally, I'd like to hear from ajh1 as that's where I got it from. Let's give him a day or two to materialize and then take it from there. He actually logged in today so he's around. File size = 27 MB ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 KootK - No hurry, your decision, take your time. I believe the email address on my website can take a 27 MB file. If/when the time comes, try that address, we will find out. Edit: Here is an "executive summary" FAQ on US copyright law that I posted some years ago in the History Forum: "When does a (printed) published copyrighted work enter the public domain?" Edit #2: Some documents, like manufacturers catalogs and certain technical info, were never copyrighted. In that case, the document entered the public domain immediately upon publication. www.SlideRuleEra.net ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 Thanks SRE. If it's a legit thing to share, I'll absolutely be happy to share it. Heck, I'll even post a Dropbox link here. It's a fine piece of classic engineering literature that should stay a part of the structural lexicon. If ajh1 doesn't pop up shortly, I suppose that there's nothing stopping me from just emailing him about it. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 (OP) jimstructures , I would love to have a pdf copy. I'm also interested in a book copy as well, but I'm not sure how to do this without violating board rules. Any idea? ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 (OP) Thanks Ron. I'll do that. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 I have a scanned copy of the Butler Foundation Manual for the Widespan & Landmark series buildings. It doesn't show any copyright. I don't know what year it was printed. I got it about 20 years ago from a former co-worker. At the time, he needed one of the guys in my group to analyze a footing for a PEMB. The file size is about 18 MB. I'll post it if the consensus is we're not violating any copyright laws. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 If someone has to break the law for this book to be posted, then so be it. Sometimes there is a higher calling. If it is your first offense, then you probably won't have to do hard time. If that were to occur, then we will definitely go to your sentencing hearing and argue for a reduced sentence. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 I love this discussion of whether or not posting information (that is necessary, but not readily available) required for education and design can be made freely available. Copyright laws shouldn't impede the transfer of information for non-monetary means...but I'm closer to an anarchist than anything else, so lock me up! ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 Does Butler provide foundation design services? If not, I see this manual as more of a promotional product on their end. You would think they'd want it widely distributed to the engineers of the world. Another great resource for PEMB foundation design is Foundation and Anchor Design Guide for Metal Building Systems by Alexander Newman. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 Pardon my ignorance.....but what is so special about this book? If it's hairpins, Newman's book treats that. Is there some manufacturer's info in there or something? ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 #### Quote (JoelTXCive) If someone has to break the law for this book to be posted, then so be it. Sometimes there is a higher calling. In most instances, you would find me championing that opinion. However, having slept on it, I've come to the conclusion that the copyright issue is not my main concern. What is my main concern is that I received the document from a real person who: 1) I loosely consider a friend. 2) Did me a substantial favor in sharing the document with me. 3) Works / worked at Butler. 4) Has, in the past, demonstrated a clear preference for distributing the document piecemeal rather than en mass. I'll do my best to secure ajh1's consent for the share. But I'll not share without that consent. 'Tis a matter of honor for House KootK I'm afraid. I am a bad, bad man in many ways but everybody has their arbitrary and idiosyncratic limits. #### Quote (WArose) Pardon my ignorance.....but what is so special about this book? If it's hairpins, Newman's book treats that. You're right, the Butler manual's importance has diminished greatly now that we have Newman. For a long, long time though, the Butler manual seemed to be the only reputable source available for justifying some of the funky foundation design required to keep the PEMB world spinning. Ergo it's historic importance. On another level, it's a bit like the Newman book is the New Testament. Yeah, it's great and a much more pleasant read. But if you could instead have access to the true word of god herself, would you not want to check that out? I feel the same about a tattered monograph by James Fisher on industrial structures that predated the AISC guides by about 1000 years. If my Jim Fisher and my AISC Design guide were both swept away in a raging flash flood, which would I save first? Sure AF I'd let my Fisher use my AISC for a flotation device. You know, anthropomorphically speaking. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 #### Quote: On another level, it's a bit like the Newman book is the New Testament. Yeah, it's great and a much more pleasant read. But if you could instead have access to the true word of god herself, would you not want to check that out? I feel the same about a tattered monograph by James Fisher on industrial structures that predated the AISC guides by about 1000 years. If my Jim Fisher and my AISC Design guide were both swept away in a raging flash flood, which would I save first? Sure AF I'd let my Fisher use my AISC for a flotation device. You know, anthropomorphically speaking. Fair enough. I just wondered what this book treated as far as foundations go that engineering judgement (and Newman) didn't. The old stuff is pretty good to read......but a lot of it is a bit dated at this point and would produce a unconservative design. (Starting with some of the old methods for anchors now covered by Appendix D in ACI 318.) ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 #### Quote (we will definitely go to your sentencing hearing and argue for a reduced sentence. ) I appreciate that Joel although my wife may have different idea. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 The heart wants what it wants. My first copy came to me via a grainy, three page fax which I still have. And it was precisely the hairpin thing that I was interested in. I was three years in and desperately needing to keep a PEMB foundation moving. At the time, those three pages felt like holy grail of engineering wisdom. What the heck, I'll show a little leg just to torment all you sad Bulter-Manual-Non-Havers. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 "It's a title page!!!!" ~ All of the structural sub-forum swoons ~ ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 As KootK indicated, I've been providing that PDF file to a number of people over the years. However, I retired at the end of 2018 and no longer have a copy on my files. I suggest contacting rkPeck at the usual Butler email address and he should be able to get you a copy. I've alerted him via an email that he may be seeing a request coming through. The big thing with distributing it and this is noted in the forward is that the proper use of the information is solely the responsibility of the user. Note that the guidelines are based on the normal design practices back when this was published and may not reflect current practices or code requirements. ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 Ron, Please let add my thanks for the suggestion above. I will also try to take advantage of the information and contact "ntpe". The Foundation Design and Construction Manual, 2nd Ed., published by Butler Manufacturing Company dates from about 1984 and was written by Donald R. Buettner, Ph.D., P.E., James M. Fisher, Ph.D., P.E., and Charles E. Manske, M.S., P.E. Some of whom are connected with Computerized structural Design, Inc. with Butler Manufacturing Company's cooperation. Jim ### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984 ASCE is having a 2-day seminar at the end of the month on concrete anchorages. The seminar is in Tampa, Florida. It is being taught by Newman himself and you get a free copy of his book with your attendance fee ($ ~1,400)

http://mylearning.asce.org/diweb/catalog/item/id/2...

I'm thinking of attending.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

That's a pretty expensive "free" book.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

With regards to posting copyright material on the internet, I compare it to speeding. Yes, technically its illegal, yet even enforcers of the law are guilty.

Just keepin' it real.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

It sounds like we're not breaking any laws if I post the book. I can't do it now because IT has been working on my computer for the past 6 hours.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

I think I may have some portions of this.....can anyone confirm that p.58 is where hairpins are (started to be) discussed?

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

I had an email from the head of Butler R&D this afternoon. They are no longer going to respond to distribution requests as they are concerned regarding the age of the document and the likelihood that there are provisions in it that are potentially in conflict with current code and design practices. There did not appear to be any particular issue if folks can find the document other places and he mentioned that some university libraries (OK State was mentioned) have PDF versions available.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

WARose,

In my copy, 2 Ed.,Page 58 starts with Tension Tie, Figure 7-17 and then starts section 2 Hairpin Rods. Then there is Figure 7-18, titled Spread Tie for Resisting Horizontal Thrusts. (The figure is a Hairpin in my definition).

Jim

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

#### Quote:

WARose,

In my copy, 2 Ed.,Page 58 starts with Tension Tie, Figure 7-17 and then starts section 2 Hairpin Rods. Then there is Figure 7-18, titled Spread Tie for Resisting Horizontal Thrusts. (The figure is a Hairpin in my definition).

Jim

That's it! Hey, I've got a (small, only about 8 pages) copy of this thing and never knew it.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

Thank the pope (and bridgebuster of course), this thread has reached its logical conclusion at last. I have no real use for this book but still downloaded it because the suspense made it so desirable.

### RE: Butler "Foundation design and construction manual" 1984

I hope everyone enjoys the book & thanks for the stars.

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