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3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings
5

3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

(OP)
Hi,

To preface this issue, it is located in Ontario Canada at our manufacturing facility. A 3rd party engineering group has installed a custom made gantry system within our plant. We are experiencing a lot of issues with it (pressure cracks) and feel that it was designed inadequately. We have contacted the group and requested engineering drawings of the machine, however they say "we have supplied a product, not a service; therefore we do not owe you any drawings". It is our hope to get some sort of drawings whether that be construction stage, final, but the company is refusing to cooperate in any way. Is there some sort of standard we may hold them to as this feels very unethical for the company to with-hold information regarding a product that was custom designed for our facility.

Thanks!

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

Probably not. Check the contract. You get what you ask for, not what you wish for.

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

Or get your attorney to file suit - then through the "discovery process" you can get the drawings - expensive drawings - but you'll have them.

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RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

Warranty?

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

5
Do you want drawings or do you want a working gantry?

Focus your efforts on the end goal.

"Your product doesn't work. Fix it."

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

I'd doubt the crane was custom designed to your facility, more likely a standard crane was adapted to fit your facility. In either case if they fulfilled their contractual obligation then they don't have to provide dink. You have the crane, measure it up and have a competent engineer review.

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

Well stated by MintJulep and confirmed by the supplier. You bought a product and your seeing pressure cracks. Assuming you specified a service life of more than a year I would expect it replaced free of charge and check to see if I can charge them for lost productivity. Unless they are going to provide you a written inspections indicating the pressure cracks are not a concern and the product is good to use.

It's not your job to fix the product, it's your job to use and maintain the product. Just like an iPhone with a one year warranty or a lifetime replacement warranty wrench.

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

It is standard not to give the drawings out - you paid for the product, not the design (assuming that is how your contract was made). The drawings are their intellectual property and it is to their benefit to keep those drawings private. Think about it from their perspective: what if they released the drawings to you and then you went to a 3rd party fab shop and had them make the product. They would be being robbed of business (potentially illegally, but its just a scenario). Thus it is usually standard practice to never release the drawings.

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

You have 5 consecutive Rights when it comes to troubleshooting.

1. Is it Applied right?
2. Is it Operated right?
3. Is it Maintained right?
4. Is it Installed right?
5. Is it Designed right?

Requesting the drawings assumes you've cleared the first (4) Rights. It sounds like Rights 4. and 5. are the responsibility of the 3rd party engineering group. Have you cleared Rights 1. through 3.? Can you prove it? I would go back to the 3rd party with your 1. through 3. documentation and ask them to make good on 4. and then 5.

I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

Drawings is nothing without structural calculation and respective fab. / quality assurance.
You express your feel of being treated unethically.
a) As a design engineer, I'd consider a demand for drawings which is not covered by contract as unethical.
b) I'm living from those drawings and don't want to see them ... feel free to fill in.
c) Just imagine someone else taking these drawings with your own good name on it and ... feel free to fill in.

The whole aspect of "feel" seems not adequate.

As for a product that doesn't work, there's a coverage by warranty.
If this is expired, all the cooperation you need is a new offer, suitably strengthened.

winky smile You might want to hire the right honorable specialists MJ and SC from this thread winky smile

Roland Heilmann

RE: 3rd Party Machine Installed but Refuses to Provide Drawings

Mr. BD (OP) logged in once, wrote this post, and never came back. Meh.

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