Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
(OP)
I work for a medium/large AE firm and currently involved in a project that is under construction and about 80% complete. I have been handling all submittal reviews, job site visits and RFIs, which in a few cases require "on-the-fly" design changes as part of the RFI response.
I did all of the structural design and drafting for the project, but was not the EOR, since I am not registered in the project state. The CD's were sealed by another engineer in my firm who also acted as my checker. That engineer is still in the company but has had no involvement in the project since the drawings were issued for construction.
I have expressed concern that I should not be making design changes via submittal review or RFI. So far my concerns have fallen on deaf ears. Am I right to think this activity is essentially unlicensed engineering work or is there some kind of exemption for engineering services performed via RFI or submittal review? If the EOR was in the loop it would be one thing, but it's just me at this point and has been since the CD's were issued. I'm interested in what others think about this situation.
I did all of the structural design and drafting for the project, but was not the EOR, since I am not registered in the project state. The CD's were sealed by another engineer in my firm who also acted as my checker. That engineer is still in the company but has had no involvement in the project since the drawings were issued for construction.
I have expressed concern that I should not be making design changes via submittal review or RFI. So far my concerns have fallen on deaf ears. Am I right to think this activity is essentially unlicensed engineering work or is there some kind of exemption for engineering services performed via RFI or submittal review? If the EOR was in the loop it would be one thing, but it's just me at this point and has been since the CD's were issued. I'm interested in what others think about this situation.
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
And, I think you are correct about "mismanagement" in your firm. Why not work elsewhere?
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
That being said, my general thought is that a "non-intent" change made in the design during construction should not require the stamping engineer's direct review/approval prior to implementation; for example, a minor relocation of an anchor bolt to miss existing rebar. An "intent" change to the design, on the other hand, should be approved by the stamping engineer, or their designee, prior to proceeding with construction; for example, changing the support of a heat exchanger from cast-in-place concrete piers to a steel frame.
I can't quote chapter and verse for the above, but, again in my opinion, believe it follows good engineering practice.
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
The EOR's responsibility does not stop after the design is complete (think Kansas City Hyatt Regency collapse).
Second, if changes are made that affect the design intent or integrity, (in my opinion) it would be practicing without a license if those changes were not issued by the EOR who is licensed in the project state.
There may be some leniency or loopholes on this depending on the laws in that particular state, so its best to check with the state (before this happens).
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
Or is it sometimes the case that another engineer handles the bulk of these items, only flagging "design intent" changes for the EOR's review/sign off?
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
1. There are RFI's in which the answer is simply pointing the contractor to the appropriate detail, specification, or note. These do not involve the practice of engineering and thus would not require the EOR to review. You are simply helping the contractor understand and interpret their contractual obligations.
2. There are RFI's in which an alternative product is proposed which falls under the "or equal" category. Again - the EOR is not required here in my view.
3. There are RFI's where there was a field error - misplaced anchor rod per KoachCSR's comment above - here it gets a little questionable. The EIT or inspector who is not an engineer may not fully understand the issue of moving an anchor over 3 inches. That may be a bad thing if the cover over the anchor is reduced from 5 inches to 2 inches and Appendix D kicks in. The EOR should be involved.
4. There are also other RFI's where design aspects are changed, moved, re-configured, etc. All these should have the EOR involved.
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RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
TTFN (ta ta for now)
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RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
But you have a point that there may be a "special" feature of product A that product B doesn't provide but that is unknown to the reviewer and only to the EOR.
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RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
On projects where I'm the EOR, I don't let ANY submittal or RFI response go out without my review. This is not just because I am worried that the response creates a design change for which I would be unwittingly responsible for, I am also picky about how we respond (wording, depth of explanation, punctuation, etc.).
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RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
What I've seen most times in the last 4 years: One engineer does the bulk of the design development work, then an EOR is selected right before issuing for construction. Management looks at a list of engineers in the company, selects one who is licensed in the project state, calls them up and says, "Hey, could you be the checker and also stamp these drawings?". After issuing the drawings, that EOR goes off on their merry way and has no ties to the project going forward. So I guess I've thought of myself as the responsible engineer in charge of the work, and the person stamping is more of a checker with a much shallower knowledge of the project than my own. It's not plan-stamping because they check everything, but they are never fully brought in to the project, if that makes sense.
This seems to be the norm at my company and apparently I'm the only one who has an issue with it. I just spoke to the EOR on my current project to fill him in on the changes I've been making via RFI, and he really just didn't want to be involved.
RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state
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RE: Making design changes via RFI or shop drawing review - Not licensed in project state