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Welding qualification for aluminium 6061 materials 5
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First step: obtain a copy of ASME Section IX.
Article II (all the paragraphs that begin with 2XX) contains the ground rules for qualifying the WPS. Article II will reference various paragraphs contained in Article I and Article IV for specific requirements.
Best regards - Al
Article II (all the paragraphs that begin with 2XX) contains the ground rules for qualifying the WPS. Article II will reference various paragraphs contained in Article I and Article IV for specific requirements.
Best regards - Al
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- #3
TimSchrader2
Mechanical
Hello. Note the qualification of a welder is not the same as the qualification of a procedure. WPS. The AWS manual gives dimensional guidance on weld details but not WPS's.
I tried to find and buy some WPS's when I had to do this for a AWS certified Job, but could not find any. We had to develop our own that pass the bend tests. I would think you should be able to buy these. Of course, they would need to be grouped per a range of thickness and materials. In any case, buying the WPS would not exclude you from a certified bend testing.
I tried to find and buy some WPS's when I had to do this for a AWS certified Job, but could not find any. We had to develop our own that pass the bend tests. I would think you should be able to buy these. Of course, they would need to be grouped per a range of thickness and materials. In any case, buying the WPS would not exclude you from a certified bend testing.
It is interesting that the welding symbol is ISO, but it doesn't follow the full format of ISO. You should get clarification with regards to the welding requirements. ISO allows one to specify the weld size based on the throat dimension or the leg dimension. The length specified is not in accordance with ISO as well. Get clarification.
The welder that welds the test coupon used to qualify the WPS will also be qualified as a welded, but the positions for production will be dependent on the position the test coupon was welded in.
Best regards - Al
The welder that welds the test coupon used to qualify the WPS will also be qualified as a welded, but the positions for production will be dependent on the position the test coupon was welded in.
Best regards - Al
- Thread starter
- #7
Hi
Thanks everyone for your feed back
1) aluminium 6061 T6 codition material we have welded for qualification as per WPS as per ASME SEC IX guidelines
Here my question is after welding the above 6061 T6 materials is it required tensile testing weld sample or not?
If it is radiography report ok further any tests required?
Please clarify
2) Regarding welding symbol 50% meens what can any body help the symbol meens
Thanks in advance
Regards
PVKRaju
Thanks everyone for your feed back
1) aluminium 6061 T6 codition material we have welded for qualification as per WPS as per ASME SEC IX guidelines
Here my question is after welding the above 6061 T6 materials is it required tensile testing weld sample or not?
If it is radiography report ok further any tests required?
Please clarify
2) Regarding welding symbol 50% meens what can any body help the symbol meens
Thanks in advance
Regards
PVKRaju
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IM,
Agree 100% with your post.
I have spent the past 2 years unable to get work and I see these questions daily on eng-tips.
How did people get in the position they are in and then have to ask for help on an internet forum ?
I have done my best not to respond up till now but after a while the frustrations build-up,
Cheers,
Shane
Agree 100% with your post.
I have spent the past 2 years unable to get work and I see these questions daily on eng-tips.
How did people get in the position they are in and then have to ask for help on an internet forum ?
I have done my best not to respond up till now but after a while the frustrations build-up,
Cheers,
Shane
I place the "blame" on the employer that assigns the responsibility to the employee that isn't qualified for the position.
Reminds of the client I worked with that assigned the title of Welding Engineer to one of his engineers because they knew the engineer had a "buzz box" and knew how to "make a bead."
It turned out just fine for me. The engineer screwed things up in a grand manner and I was bought in to help get them back on track. The manager said, "When I see one of you, the other better be close by. You two are joined at the hip until he knows everything you know!" It was as good as money in the bank.
Best regards - Al
Reminds of the client I worked with that assigned the title of Welding Engineer to one of his engineers because they knew the engineer had a "buzz box" and knew how to "make a bead."
It turned out just fine for me. The engineer screwed things up in a grand manner and I was bought in to help get them back on track. The manager said, "When I see one of you, the other better be close by. You two are joined at the hip until he knows everything you know!" It was as good as money in the bank.
Best regards - Al
Guest
Al,
True, but there's more than enough blame to go around, most of which would be better addressed in a different forum.
'Profession Ethics in Engineering' comes closest, though the scope and causes of the problem go far beyond that.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
True, but there's more than enough blame to go around, most of which would be better addressed in a different forum.
'Profession Ethics in Engineering' comes closest, though the scope and causes of the problem go far beyond that.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
moltenmetal
Chemical
Just in case the ignorance ends up hurting somebody here and the (well deserved in my opinion) snarky responses haven't driven the OP away, how the hell are you going to qualify the welding of a material received in the T6 tempered condition? After you weld it, the HAZ will be annealed and it will have about 1/2 the strength of the unheated parent material?!?!
Revealing my ignorance about aluminum materials here- we use them only as extruded structural sections and only weld them if we don't really care how strong the resulting item is. Is there a way to recover the temper-related strength and other properties of these materials after welding? I thought that this wasn't really a "temper" in this material, but really a strain or age hardening or something like that, so not something you could restore with appropriate heat treatment? Please enlighten me, as I'm too lazy to Google it!
Revealing my ignorance about aluminum materials here- we use them only as extruded structural sections and only weld them if we don't really care how strong the resulting item is. Is there a way to recover the temper-related strength and other properties of these materials after welding? I thought that this wasn't really a "temper" in this material, but really a strain or age hardening or something like that, so not something you could restore with appropriate heat treatment? Please enlighten me, as I'm too lazy to Google it!
- Thread starter
- #15
Hi thanks to all
For your valuable inputs
Here Material is 6061 T6 condition after welding we have done tensile testing weld sample without any anealing treatment and it is failed
As per your post comments we under stand that any such type of 6061 T6 codition materials should not do the tensile test without any further treatment
Further Can any body explain briefly
It is Very greatful to all
Thanks in advance
PVKRaju
My English is very poor
For your valuable inputs
Here Material is 6061 T6 condition after welding we have done tensile testing weld sample without any anealing treatment and it is failed
As per your post comments we under stand that any such type of 6061 T6 codition materials should not do the tensile test without any further treatment
Further Can any body explain briefly
It is Very greatful to all
Thanks in advance
PVKRaju
My English is very poor
6061-T6 is a popular aluminum alloy used in structural applications. As long as the designer understand the limitations of the material from the standpoint of the diminished mechanical properties in the weld and HAZ and they understand there is no practical endurance level, i.e., it is going to fail if subjected to cyclic loading (it is a question of when), it can be used for many applications.
I've been involved in two legal cases as an expert witness where there were fatalities. In both cases, the designer used the “as wrought” mechanicals instead of the “as welded” conditions when designing the connections.
There is plenty of design data available to designers enabling them to fabricate structures that provide adequate performance and service life. The problem is when a designer approaches aluminum as if it was a typical steel found in many structures and machines. Likewise, the fabricator has to understand that aluminum isn’t steel when it comes to fabricating and welding aluminum.
I've been involved in two legal cases as an expert witness where there were fatalities. In both cases, the designer used the “as wrought” mechanicals instead of the “as welded” conditions when designing the connections.
There is plenty of design data available to designers enabling them to fabricate structures that provide adequate performance and service life. The problem is when a designer approaches aluminum as if it was a typical steel found in many structures and machines. Likewise, the fabricator has to understand that aluminum isn’t steel when it comes to fabricating and welding aluminum.
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Compositepro
Chemical
Aluminum alloy heat treatment and hardening is completely different from steel. Any knowledge of steel tempers will only confuse you if you try to apply that to understanding aluminum. And there are several categories of aluminum alloys, which behave very differently from each other.
6061 gets "solution annealed" at about 950F (the meting point is about 1100-1200F). This makes sure that all the ingredients are fully dissolved in the aluminum. Quenching produces the soft O-condition with no grain structure. Grain formation over time at room temperature will harden and strengthen the alloy through "natural aging". T-6 temper is "artificially aged" at 350-400F for some hours which allows grains of alloying metal to grow and interlock. "Over-aging" will cause the grains to grow so large they no longer work to increase strength, and the material may appear to be annealed. The only way to get back any strength is to do the "solution anneal" and aging again. It is important to know that aluminum properties can be strongly, and permanently, degraded by exposure to temperatures as low as 350F.
6061 gets "solution annealed" at about 950F (the meting point is about 1100-1200F). This makes sure that all the ingredients are fully dissolved in the aluminum. Quenching produces the soft O-condition with no grain structure. Grain formation over time at room temperature will harden and strengthen the alloy through "natural aging". T-6 temper is "artificially aged" at 350-400F for some hours which allows grains of alloying metal to grow and interlock. "Over-aging" will cause the grains to grow so large they no longer work to increase strength, and the material may appear to be annealed. The only way to get back any strength is to do the "solution anneal" and aging again. It is important to know that aluminum properties can be strongly, and permanently, degraded by exposure to temperatures as low as 350F.
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bentwings2
Mechanical
We manufacture custom trailers, mostly aluminum today. Most ultimately get loaded to the max and get beat up pretty badly. We use mostly tubing both for the main rails and crossmembers. This allows welding on three sides with out flush grinding the top sides. Production trailers are often angle construction and formed angle at that. The real trick is to weld hot and fast, minimizrning heat input. Pulsed MIG works too but we don’t have the welders for this yet.
Most aluminum us 6061-t6. Occasionally there is some structural aluminum shapes that are other 6000 series. We don’t use much of it. It welds about the same.
As noted there is a substantial HAZ. Often cracks occur just outboard of it but I see some right down the middle too. Not using enough heat also or welding on very cold material often produces a cold weld that maybe looks nice but is very weak.
The angle and formed angle construction survives a couple years at best then starts to break up. Much of our repair business is fixing these. It is a real pain when you add our Minnesota winter salt corrosion. We have seen units come in with nothing left of the axel mountings. An entire frame section has to be retrofitted. Even welding this corroded stuff requires ugly fish plating
And reinforcing by what ever means we can squeeze in and weld. I hate to say it but more weld than necessary seems to be the rule. Welds often would fracture the camera.LOL. Welding on your back in a confined area with a respirator under the helmet makes it really difficult.
We found the cost between angle and tubing to be pretty small. So we use tubing where ever possible.
We had a kid from welding school with a handful of certifications come in. I had him cut up some aluminum scrap for a test. He brought the pieces over to the bench. I said ok, here is the shape I want you to put together. I think he thought he could sit down at the table and make a masterpiece. I said ok, crawl under the table and weld these parts together using overhead welds.
If you work in a weld and fab shop you know the junk that accumulates under weld tables. It’s the exact test I had as a TIG welder 50 years ago.
It’s amazing how this shrinks the size of the head.LOL
Most aluminum us 6061-t6. Occasionally there is some structural aluminum shapes that are other 6000 series. We don’t use much of it. It welds about the same.
As noted there is a substantial HAZ. Often cracks occur just outboard of it but I see some right down the middle too. Not using enough heat also or welding on very cold material often produces a cold weld that maybe looks nice but is very weak.
The angle and formed angle construction survives a couple years at best then starts to break up. Much of our repair business is fixing these. It is a real pain when you add our Minnesota winter salt corrosion. We have seen units come in with nothing left of the axel mountings. An entire frame section has to be retrofitted. Even welding this corroded stuff requires ugly fish plating
And reinforcing by what ever means we can squeeze in and weld. I hate to say it but more weld than necessary seems to be the rule. Welds often would fracture the camera.LOL. Welding on your back in a confined area with a respirator under the helmet makes it really difficult.
We found the cost between angle and tubing to be pretty small. So we use tubing where ever possible.
We had a kid from welding school with a handful of certifications come in. I had him cut up some aluminum scrap for a test. He brought the pieces over to the bench. I said ok, here is the shape I want you to put together. I think he thought he could sit down at the table and make a masterpiece. I said ok, crawl under the table and weld these parts together using overhead welds.
If you work in a weld and fab shop you know the junk that accumulates under weld tables. It’s the exact test I had as a TIG welder 50 years ago.
It’s amazing how this shrinks the size of the head.LOL
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