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Annual review.....

Annual review.....

Annual review.....

So its Annual review time of year....

I am a PE, even though I work under a corporate umbrella and am not in the state of my license, I still adhere to best ethical practices when dealing with engineering decisions of others. Quite simply, without making a show, personally ask the to show you how the came up with their conclusion and there supporting documentation, and civilly discuss.

Unfortunately from an engineering standpoint, 99% of the people I work with on a daily basis are not engineers. Also everyone around me are clicky good ol boys, which for years I have managed well. However in the last year, my boss has grown very bold in believing he is an engineer, even to the point of telling people he is one (which he is not). We had several spats throughout this year when I refused to criticizes the others. Even to the point of pulling my boss into an empty office and telling him I will not discuss another PEs work that I don't fully understand, and that our company has PEs that are knowledgeable in the topics and I would happy speak with them to insure we understand the engineer in questions work. This type of issue has come up several times throughout the year.I really when people just back stab each other and expect me to join the stabbing.

So now in my annual review it came up that I am not being a team player and also that I need to regain their trust….

This is half me venting since my normal person to bring sanity to my job, jumped ship to a competitor… I have had 3 bosses in this roll, this is my 3rd leadership team, probably the most gossipy and backstabbing I have seen in my 10 yr career.

… regardless of whether I ride out this regime or not, its all going to be good, and I don't do this for the “being a team player” bonuses.

RE: Annual review.....

Is there a question hidden here somewhere ????

RE: Annual review.....

Sanity Check. Time to move on. Even if you go through a dozen bosses. Life is too short for this.

RE: Annual review.....

Three bosses in five years? I'd hope for your sake that's also not three roles in five years, no way anybody can claim competency on a niche after such a short time and if you're not becoming proficient then there's little point.

Agreed, probably time to move on to either another company or position. The advantage to big companies is moving between divisions, they're often like new companies without the HR paperwork.

RE: Annual review.....

I feel strongly both ways.....er.....well I'm not sure what to say because, to be honest....nothing you posted above makes sense to me.
Perhaps a better worded synopsis and question?

Check out Eng-Tips Forum's Policies here:
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Annual review.....


Well, first off, you can be an engineer without being licensed. Happens all the time in heavy industry.

So, as long as your boss has an engineering degree from an accredited university, and he is practicing engineering, he is an engineer, just not a licensed one. He cannot advertise to be a licensed engineer either.

I was puzzled by the "good old boys" and "backstabbing" comments. Does this mean that your bosses wanted the solutions their way or your out the door? If so, that's a medieval mentality and you need to leave.

I do not know if this was at the root of your discussion, so, if not, a little more clarity on the situation would be helpful as JAE suggests.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

RE: Annual review.....

Thanks for your reply's, now that I have collected my thoughts:

What to do when you have a very authoritarian boss?
a.) I do have options to move within the company, however I am in a remote outpost, and an internal move will require relocation of my family . This will take some time to find a good fit.
b.) Patiently wait and see if he is replaced, one way or another. In my company managers are only kept in positions for 1-2 years, so I could try to ride it out.
c.) Just move on to another local company, and start fresh.

miningman, BUGGAR, CWB1, JAE. I hope the above hits all your questions.

msquared48, medieval mentality would also describe the situation. I have had a very authoritarian boss in the past, however, that boss did respect my decisions when it came to ethics and following procedures, and year after year I would got good reviews and good raised. Unfortunately with this boss, that is not the case. These issues do not just extend to me, every engineer that I regularly work with has had the same issues, but they are not his direct reports.

I have made a point to follow up any disagreements with an email to my boss, with notes on the issues discussed. Although I am sure to him, this is seen as an example of how I am not a team player.

RE: Annual review.....


What you mean by "not an engineer"? Is he not a PE, or not actually trained as an engineer?

I have worked with authoritarian bosses. Authoritarians impress management because they project decisiveness and leadership. They also do not lose arguments, which could get scary if you actually are right. Why is the company putting up with this person?

It may be time to get that resume out.


RE: Annual review.....

No job is perfect. I'd ride it out, but be on the lookout for an out. Ever think of being self employed? It has it's problems, but I know of no one working for himself who would change it.

RE: Annual review.....

There have been a couple times in my past where I thought I would wait out a bad boss. In both cases I eventually left anyway. In both cases the bad boss went out the door only when the company went down the tube.

If an company cannot recognize a bad boss, they can't recognize a good employee.

RE: Annual review.....

drawoh, he is not actually trained as an engineer. He also does not display Dilbert mechanical knack. In many cases when I have operators to do something like; stop the pump from cavitating,replace the bearing, etc., he would interject and tell them I didn't know how to run a plant and to ignore me. The good thing is at this point the operators know I am right and will wait till he goes away, then do what I ask. He has also told me how to run the plant, which, I refuse to deviate from approved standards or test plan.

Why does the company put with him? They don't put up with bad management, the problem is because of the remote locations (O&G), the fact that the next tier managment is 500 miles away, the next layer does not see the effects quickly. I believe he understands that, and I am the main link to the corporate office because I have to access SME's for change management. To the point he has tried to stop me from traveling to the corporate office, however his boss told him I an needed at the meetings.

oldestguy, I have ridden out a lot of poopycocky, he will probably be gone in a year or so, but I dont know if its worth the wait. I know alot of people who have left and started subcontract back to the company often making more money. I feel like there is alot more I would like to learn before going solo...

RE: Annual review.....

Certainly, you're learning what not to do, which is sometimes a more beneficial result. Nevertheless, solo practice involves so many things that you'll never learn or experience in a company that you'll never learn what you need unless you go work for a solo practice or go out on your own.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Annual review.....

So you understand how to run the plant, you have the respect of the operators you mentioned, it sounds like you can work very effectively with the non engineers you mentioned in the original post, your value is seen by the next boss up who over ruled your boss to have you at meetings . . . Ever thought about management yourself? If you think he is gone within the year, wait it out, position yourself as his replacement and you won't have to deal with another crap boss (at least not one within 500 miles)

Declan Scullion CEng

RE: Annual review.....

Read Character Disturbance by George K. Simon, Ph.D. It explained a lot to me including why the authoritarian types are so prevalent today.

To me, it seems he perceives you as a threat and needs to discredit you to get what he wants. What he wants may be found in Character Disturbance. Those are hard to work with, in my experience, degreed engineers or not. I've never successfully worked with them and I concluded it's impossible to do so not because I wasn't willing but they were not. Some of them didn't even want what I wanted but they didn't want me to achieve either. Strange behaviors but that's some people.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program: http://nspe-co.org/events.php

RE: Annual review.....

IRstuff, I have thought about going on my own, but I think the best place to start would be joining a local NSPE to start making connects. Which actually should be feasible next school year, due to the kiddos schedules changing.

D Scullion, I was asked to apply to a manger position but it meant moving to a location where my wife would struggle to find work, which was a non-starter, so I turned it down. I will if a reasonable position comes up.

Lacajun, I will hit the local used book store this weekend! I just finished a book.

RE: Annual review.....

Quote (Gymmeh)

...So now in my annual review it came up that I am not being a team player and also that I need to regain their trust…

A few things to consider - (1)Being a team player does not mean mindlessly following the team into oblivion. Any team can benefit from someone who is willing to speak up when mistakes are being made. (2)Trust must go both ways-regardless of what management would have you believe. Lack of trust either way is an indication that it may be time to look elsewhere. (3) Your "normal person to bring sanity", left for a reason. It might be worthwhile to determine that reason.

RE: Annual review.....

#1 Yes, its not even about mistakes, just basic improvements. This happens to all the operators, to the point where most of them are jaded, when it comes to suggesting any practical improvements.
I have thought a lot about your item #2, it is a two way street and no mater how I try to manage to build the relationship, he still finds a way to throw curve balls.
#3 The guy that left, had been interviewing and talking about leaving for while because "Momma ain't happy", while being on the road all the time with a new kiddo at home.

RE: Annual review.....


Had to give you a star! So just came out of a unplanned 3 week outage because major issues were found at a plant....
a team of corporate experts came in from Houston. I project managed the outage, halfway into the outage one of the guys I thought was just another corporate overlord, took me out of coffee and told me he would be my new manager mid April....another 2-3 year cycle starts again.

Thanks all! some times you need to just hang on and rider' out.

RE: Annual review.....

I thought it was me for a while. My bosses would last about 2 years and either leave the company or transfer out to another location or department. Then when discussing our upper leadership change to one of our suppliers he mentioned, that he had noticed we will change management every 2-3 years.
He had seen us come in with grandiose ideas and initiatives, then sputter out and a new leader come in with new initiatives too many times.

RE: Annual review.....

2-3 yrs! Wow, that's sooo long! winky smile

A previous job had new general managers every 6 months. The second to last was the smartest and the only one to get promoted, but he did zero, zilch, nada for the viability of the division; the last GM came and almost fainted from the lack of a future.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Annual review.....

6 months! yeah I understand why there are some jaded employees that literally just do enough not to get fired.

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