I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
(OP)
I guess this isn't really a question but more of a rant.
Lunch meetings should be rare, only if completely necessary and at most once a month. I now have several per WEEK, sometimes every day. They think they are being nice by bringing in sandwiches or pizza. Sometimes it's just cookies.
But I just want to eat my chicken salad with celery and have my Mandarin orange while watching YouTube cat videos.
And sometimes I’d like to go to the bank or drug store during lunch, or make a private phone call to my broker or tax accountant which requires leaving the office to truly be private.
My lunch hour should be mine to do as I please. I am really tired of noontime meetings.
OK I feel a little better now. Thanks
Lunch meetings should be rare, only if completely necessary and at most once a month. I now have several per WEEK, sometimes every day. They think they are being nice by bringing in sandwiches or pizza. Sometimes it's just cookies.
But I just want to eat my chicken salad with celery and have my Mandarin orange while watching YouTube cat videos.
And sometimes I’d like to go to the bank or drug store during lunch, or make a private phone call to my broker or tax accountant which requires leaving the office to truly be private.
My lunch hour should be mine to do as I please. I am really tired of noontime meetings.
OK I feel a little better now. Thanks
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I am close to this. I've been coming up with various excuses that I fantasize about using.
"I'm sorry, I have to meet with my forensic accountant to find out where my ex hid $1 million."
"I'm sorry. I have to meet my broker to strategize how to reinvest my Bitcoin millions."
"I'm sorry. I have a meeting with my Oscar Party planning committee."
"I'm sorry. I have an appointment in a Chinatown alley to get my Adderal."
"I'm sorry. I have an emergency blowout at the Aveda Salon."
"I'm sorry. I'm having lunch with my ex boss."
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Personally I do whatever's asked of me until I feel taken advantage of, then I find another employer. I have months where I travel and/or work 60/week then others where its closer to 30. Not that I've ever kept "normal" hours but I've never heard of a lunch hour outside of the government, 30 minutes being the norm.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I block off those hours... mainly after the realization is made I am being taken advantage of. Some people just push and push until they hit your limit, but they can't seem to understand the concept of reasonable limits until you specify them. If your solution to an inability to place limits is finding another employer, perhaps it's not any better than those who place the limits right from the get-go...
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
When a lunchtime meeting is suggested, and lunch is provided, I'm grateful for the "free lunch", remembering of course that there is no such thing as a "free lunch".
Any lunchtime meeting held without lunch being provided is not something I'm going to attend personally nor to expect anyone else to attend.
When I call a lunchtime meeting, I have a reasonable expectation that the the time hasn't already been booked for other meetings which can then be used as a dodge by some people who actually need to attend.
Lunchtime meetings are reserved for training or other items of MUTUAL benefit. If it's ordinary company business, the meeting is held during core working hours. We used to hold scheduling meeting over lunch and provide lunch, but some staff didn't like it so we stopped doing that.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I'm in the wrong business......
----
The name is a long story -- just call me Lo.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
...and put your feet up on the table during the meeting
though, really, not everyone can make every meeting. If you have a weekly meeting I'd say, "I can't do Tuesdays," and then go to three out of four al-anon meetings. I also support the idea of billing the time and taking your lunch or phone calls afterward.
The time should be recorded accurately, in my opinion, because any good company would want a real accounting of how much time it takes to manage their operations. Of course, nobody would try to hide management hours to make the profitability look better.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
When lunch is interrupted, I typically extended my lunch for the length of the interruption. I also put my phone on DND (or at least that's what I tell people who ask why I didn't pick up) during lunch. Most everything can wait until I'm done with whatever I am doing at the time.
If they decide to change things and pay me for that time, I'll gladly skip lunch, or work through it. This isn't a hobby though, so I don't do it for free.
Andrew H.
www.mototribology.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Common sense applies to limits like everything else. When you accept a salary you're exempt from having set hours by definition, you're paid to get the job done. If that means you need to eat early, late, or suck down some crappy catering a couple times every week to attend a necessary meeting then do it or go somewhere else. OTOH, if a distant colleague invites you to be the extra set of optional eyes on a DFMEA review for a project you're not working on then by all means, decline and enjoy lunch.
A lazy, entitled attitude might fly at smaller companies but doesn't do well in corporate industry where the bottom line is the most important and engineering support often makes/breaks million+ dollar deals. I've been in roles that regularly involved hand carrying prototype parts to third world countries to get a customer back up and running on only a few hours notice, and have been rewarded handsomely for the effort through both bonuses and promotions. JME but having been a hard working employee leaving on good terms, employers want me back badly enough that I retain open offers. The folks that play games as mentioned above tend to get put at the top of the list for layoffs and blacklisted, so yes, its FAR better to be considered a "good" employee.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
My colleague doesn't seem to be suffering from not attending these meetings, so maybe you'll be OK as well. To paraphrase Amos Tversky, "Don't worry about the excuse, just get up and start leaving and your mind will have an excuse ready by the time you reach the door knob".
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
yeah, they suck.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Lunch meetings are a fact of life. I don't see the need to get in a tiff about it.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Lunch is your time to relax and unwind. I'm (and probably you) not getting paid for it. To me it's a way to have people work an extra hour for free.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I do this because a) I have a lot of non-work stuff going on and thus afternoons are highly valuable to me and b) this typically gives me between 2 and 3 hours per day in the office alone, where I can burn away undisturbed by questions and meetings.
Meetings after 4:00 are rare for me because by then I'm out the door, and everyone is aware of that. But if someone schedules a meeting at 7:00 PM and I actually need to be there, I'll either call in or I'll be there. Meetings at midnight? I deal with and oversee personnel in Japan and China.. I have meetings in the late and wee hours frequently- multiple times per month. I charge the time.
I don't know where every poster in this thread is at in their career; if you're high up or in the twilight, you can certainly afford to dictate a lot of things. I am moving up but wouldn't say I'm 'high up' and I'm definitely in the dawn. I can dictate little.
Flexibility is the cost of doing business, and in my opinion its the price we (as in engineers as a whole) pay for the lucrative salaries and interesting work our trade affords us.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Like I said, occasionally it is OK. Four times a week is too much no matter how you slice it.
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
"Employees are owed premium pay when they miss a meal break or a rest break in one day. Labor Code section 226.7 provides that if an employer fails to provide a meal, rest or recovery period, the employer must pay the employee one additional hour of pay at the employee’s regular rate of compensation, for each work day that the meal or rest break is not provide"
"Further, one hour of pay is a wage, not a penalty. Wages are benefits that an employee is entitled to as part of compensation…
The hour of additional pay is not only an incentive for employers to comply with the law but, foremost, a premium wage that compensates employees – not a penalty."
"An employer cannot employ someone for a work period of more than 5 hours without providing an unpaid, off-duty meal period of at least 30 minutes."
I'm not planning to make waves at the moment. I just do not understand why engineers sitting around discussing contractual issues and liability exposure for an hour don't see the irony. SMDH
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Salaried employees, like myself, are "exempt" from such laws, which means they can abuse us to their hearts' content, assuming they have hearts...
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
But if I find myself in a position where my lunch's are continually co-opted for purposes other than feeding my face, I'll find other ways to do so on "company time", and I won't be working while munching on my sandwich.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Agreed with the above, salaried employees are exempt from hourly labor laws in all but a few cases. Having started my career on hourly wages in the trades I appreciate being allowed to negotiate my salary as commensurate based upon effort output. I want to be paid a top tier salary so I put out top tier results which require top tier effort. In most organizations as you move up in position the expectation is that you also move up in hours committed.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Sure, there's early meetings, international meetings, late meetings, travel, unpaid training, pretty soon, you're there 12 hours a day and you're nodding off during the meetings. I'm sure you have a limit. If you don't, your body does.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com-SolidWorks API VB programming help
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17a_overview.pd...
(I believe this fits most here)
(and just to cover all bases)
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
At several places I've worked they have lunch time meetings called "lunch and learn". It's where a company person will give a presentation on something [he/she doesn't know anything about] and they will claim it's good for a pdh hour. Guess what? Not in most states I am registered in.
It's very inconsiderate to disrupt someone's lunch hour like that.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Bear in mind that there is a culture conflict here. There are often people at the executive level of any company that are expected to be there, or on call, 24/7/365 for the company, especially the owners of the company. They value their work ethic, and many entrepreneurs get ahead by acting this way. Confronting them with the value you place on having a lunch hour may not go over well. My manager doesn't get a lot of quiet lunchtime hours. We collaborate with other engineering groups and support production workers in several time zones. They phone us when they need us.
I am not saying you should put up with these pointless meetings. I just want you to be cautious when you do bring it up, and be prepared to overcome a lack of understanding by using reason, not just the letter of the law.
STF
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
First to take a piece of cake.
First to open that box of donuts.
First in line at the potluck.
I have no shame. I'm a leader, a trendsetter, an example for others to follow.
I take my responsibilities very seriously.
Besides, someone has to do it.
--Scott
www.aerornd.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Ironically, they'll pull the same crap with the Juniors... "You don't have family commitments, so you can work extra hours.". Either way you slice it, they're merely trying to get MORE out of you for a price previously agreed upon. It's sketchy, and dare I say, immoral.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Hey, let's not gang up on the entrepreneurs and managers, here. Have some spine and say "No" if you want to stick to the regular work-week; explain your reasons. There are lots of people who will jump for the chance to take home overtime pay. They have their reasons. Turning it into a moral position just makes people take sides.
STF
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Also depends on how you define "extra pay." My current employer pays OT beyond 40 but makes it well known that there is no special treatment otherwise of those employees working OT. My previous two employers didn't pay OT however they both based your annual bonus upon your annual review, hours worked, and value to the company. Some folks were perfectly content with their salary alone and being a lower level individual contributor. Personally I found the $20k bonuses as an individual contributor, choice of projects/roles, and rapid promotion up into management for yet larger bonuses well worth an extra 10-20/week.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
So you're willing to work 25-50% more hours per week for, what... 20% extra pay (assuming $100k/yr salary)? Sounds like a good deal for the company. If you're making $200k/yr, that deal gets even better for them.
No, at a bare minimum, they should pay you the same wage as if you were hourly. At $200k/yr, that's $96/hr. Working those numbers through, your year-end bonus should be $50-100k for working an extra 10-20 hours/wk. You just accepted a $20k bonus for something the company would be paying another equivalent employee $100k for. Yep, that's a sweet deal for the company, alright... but you get to be manager next year.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Sure am, that extra $20k annually goes a long way toward early retirement for those of us without pensions. It also allows me to move up in the organization to exponentially higher income levels. At best both of those equal additional years of my life spent not working while providing a better life for my family, which are the end goals. At worst those give me a cushion in case of future employment or financial issues. The logical counterclaim then becomes that I'm "missing out," yet I find my life more structured out of necessity, more efficient, and I actually miss out on less bc of it.
Personally I could care less about a drop in an imaginary hourly rate, the "lower" rate is still more than I made starting out in the military and a nice chunk of change with real benefit.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Salaried mean fixed pay rate, no overtime, no bonus plan, period. That is the reality for nearly all of us.
I have never worked less than 45 hour weeks, and 50-55 is far more typical.
Travel on Sundays to make that Mon morning meeting roughly once a month.
I like my job, I am given quite a bit of flexibility, and I usually don't mind.
What I mind is managers who think that by micro-managing peoples time, especially outside of normal working hours that it somehow shows that hey are 'better managers' or 'getting more out of their people'.
When in reality the only result is lower productivity and higher turnover.
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I've worked two places and neither paid that way. You were still salaried (I think it has to do with some shady interpretation of labor law), but you billed hours to projects and filled out timesheets. Your hours were then billed to the clients. And you get paid for them (or comp time).
So there's an incentive to the company to have you bill hours even if they're above 40 hours a week. As a matter of fact, those hours are more profitable because the rent and fixed cpsts are already covered. And the way to guarantee that is going to happen is to pay you for all your hours. Basically my company is selling my time. Now if I worked for a company that sold kilowatts, automobiles, or widgets, it might be different.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I am to the point now that I have an extreme amount of flexibility.
I work out of a home office, plan all of my own travel (about 60% of my time is on the road), and generally keep up technologies that no one else in our company even knows about. This makes up for the hours and other BS.
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I've been salaried for years. comp time disappeared circa 1994. Bonuses are not guaranteed and are not based on amount of time worked, they are based on amount of profit made and distributed to the employees. Profitable employees who work longer hours are the least likely to be laid off in the downturns, hows that for a bonus?
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
That said, if you want to volunteer, please don't do it for a for-profit company! There are so many places that can make better use of your effort to make the world a better place. Donating your time for the sole benefit of a bunch of shareholders (other than you!) is just nuts.
Work should be compensated for. Sure, to make up some time for some learning you had to do on the job, or a screw-up you feel bad about and want to fix, or occasionally to help meet a deadline- a little extra is NORMAL for a salaried employee and you can't be stingy with that. |But so is taking a morning off for an appointment etc. without expecting to see it docked from your pay. If it's always one way, i.e. give but never take, you're not a salaried employee- you're a wage slave.
If consistent extra time is required, it had better be an investment with a return greater than the thought of buying goodwill from your current boss. They might be promoted away before you can reap any reward from it. All the extra effort you put in will be accepted. It may not be compensated, or acknowledged, or even NOTICED, but it will certainly be accepted! It's your responsibility to make sure that it's compensated for in some way or you shouldn't be doing it. Doesn't matter how- time in lieu that you can actually take, shares, options, a bonus- you name it, but it had better be SOMETHING of real value, or else you're not only de-valuing your own services- you're de-valuing the services of everyone else who does the same work.
I learned this lesson EARLY in my career by getting ripped off, and thank goodness I learned from it!
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Other then that, my time is my time.
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
I've finished the job that I set out to do. I've submitted my expense sheet. I've answered all my emails. I think I've almost reached the end of the internet!
Can't exactly bill for this time. Can't do the job that I'm expected to do tomorrow while I'm stuck here.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Ron - my sentiments exactly. Coming back to the original post, we have monthly lunchtime senior manager meetings; they're torturous!
We start with the company mandated health/safety/wellness discussion, go through business development, new wins, new projects, then it concludes with everyone saying what they're working on. Of course, nobody ever takes a cue from me - make it 10 to 15 second report. Some people just babble on and on, as if anyone knows what they're talking about.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: I HATE Lunch Time Meetings
Do it and don't look back! If it's so early for some that they'd fuss over it, maybe you lose this battle, but you could also find out that this meeting is completely cancelable...?