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Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

(OP)
I am a civil engineer, not electrical; so forgive my lack of knowledge.

What is a 'bucket for 3 phase power'?

I was a in a bid meeting today with contractors and we were going over plans for some large motorized gates. (The electrical engineer was not at the meeting)

The contractors all wanted to know if we had a bucket for 3-phase.

Are they referring to the transformer up on the electric pole? Or, are they talking about a panel box in a control building/cabinet?

Thank you.

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

A starter assembly in a motor control center (MCC) is often referred to as a bucket. Buckets can also have breakers for misc loads without having a starter.

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

"Bucket" is generally used to describe a removable power cubical in a Motor Control Center (MCC), be it for a motor starter or a feeder circuit breaker. So most likely the context was that someone there knew that the source of power would be from an existing MCC, they were inquiring as to whether or not anyone had determined if there was a bucket available in the MCC to feed this circuit, or if they had to add one, or possible add a new section onto the MCC in order to add one. It can affect the cost of the project quite a bit depending on the answer.

MCC:


MCC starter "bucket"



" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

(OP)
Thank you!

Yes, they kept referring to the control building, which was what threw me off.

I've heard people refer to the transformers on poles as buckets too since they look like buckets.

Thanks for helping an ill-informed Civil out :)

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

take a peek at he following video (lotsa clips of buckets).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w
gg

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

They spoiled the fun by spilling the beans. Good show, though.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Transformers on poles are often called "cans". I've never heard them called buckets, but the confusion is possible.


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

I have also heard of transformers called "bugs", and motor t-boxes called "pecker-heads". So is it safe to say that between every pecker-head and bug there is a bucket? Too slangy you say ...?
GG

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

For pole transformers - the only bucket I know about is the mobile bucket-on-an-arm that the linemen work from.
Looking for the mighty fine Lineman song where the all about working from a bucket is revealed. Anyone found it?

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Heh, "peckerheads...
Somewhere in my "permanent record" is an HR file with my name on a complaint about using "inappropriate terminology" during a training presentation. I argued that it was a very common term in the electrical industry and didn't have any kind of inappropriate connotation or origin. So I was asked to document that.

I could not... Not only could I not prove an innocuous origin, a lot of evidence I found (although did not share with HR) did in fact point toward their interpretation. I still don't think that's the case, but this is one of those industry terms where the etymology is lost in the fog of lore.


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

HR can be a bunch of terminal boxes at times. grin

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Line terminology I've heard:

pole-top transformer - bug, bucket, can, kettle

down-guy strain insulator - johnny-ball

certain type of hoist/come-along: gillhooey

CR

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." [Proverbs 27:17, NIV]

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

peckerhead | Definition of peckerhead in English by Oxford Dictionaries
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pecke...
Definition of peckerhead - an aggressive, objectionable person.

used it that way for motor terminal junction box. I guess HR is right on pointing to a dictionary. But the electrical term is just slang electrical word.

Maybe wire nut is inappropriate? i thought that was funny.

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Electrical slang for a large basket grip for pulling cables? Don't go there.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Does it involve horse anatomy?


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Of a certain gender- Yes.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

What does a Kellums grip have to do with horse anatomy ?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Electrician's slang.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Concrete vibrator?

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

For an "SPACE" bucket in MCC, does UL 845 requires to be equip with automatic or manual shutter. Or a cap plugs is suffice to cover the stab opening of vertical bus?

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Quote (leur2011)

For an "SPACE" bucket in MCC, does UL 845 requires to be equip with automatic or manual shutter. Or a cap plugs is suffice to cover the stab opening of vertical bus?
You probably should have started a new thread instead of hijacking one, but this is simple enough to not bother now.

No, you don't need automatic or even manual shutters, a cap meets the requirements of UL-845. But if done live, it does mean sticking your hands into a live work space, so even though now it requires adequate Arc Flash protection PPE to do anything with a live bucket, adding the task of sticking your hands inside is something people are loathe to do. In all the MCCs I specify now, I am always putting in automatic shutters, even if people don't know to ask. It's not adding a lot of cost.


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Thanks jraef,

Our vendor offer indicate that space bucket do not have door interlock such that if there is an accident happen due the reason of accessing the space bucket live parts by opening the shutter will void the warranty of their supplied equipment.

Does the above statement acceptable to UL 845 standard?

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

Quote:

Our vendor offer indicate that space bucket do not have door interlock such that if there is an accident happen due the reason of accessing the space bucket live parts by opening the shutter will void the warranty of their supplied equipment.
Hmmm... I'm afraid I don't understand the gist of that statement.

A "Space" is not a "bucket" in that there is no frame or stab assembly, it's just a blank door over the empty space, preventing access to it until it needs to be used at some future date. So why would anyone be accessing that space if not to plug in a bucket?

If on the other hand what you are referring to as a "space bucket" is what's called an "empty unit insert" for mounting control devices or other things that do not need connection to the MCC bus, then there must be a solid plate in that unit, which would preclude the ability to access the bus bars; plugs or no plugs, shutters or no shutters. So to me, this might be a semantics issue, you need to get clarity over what exactly you are talking about.


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

As per our project specification, it state that “Space” – is a switching assembly locations which are not be equipped with a switching device but shall be developed to accept, with no modifications other than the installation of devices within the compartment door, a switching device suitable for a 19 kW (25 H.P.) induction motor.

Then why is it that if there is an accident happen due the reason of accessing the space bucket live parts by opening the shutter, which has no door interlock as safety requirements the manufacturer responsibility and warranty of the supplied equipment will be void ? Would this be acceptable.

RE: Bucket for 3 Phase Power?

In a disconnect switch or combination starter installed in an MCC, the door is interlocked with the disconnect switch or breaker so that the switch or breaker must be in the open position before the door may be opened.
It is almost impossible to install a standard interlock between the door and the switch or breaker when the switch or breaker is sitting on a shelf in the distributors warehouse.
The typical interlock is part of a standard bucket. When the bucket is installed, the blank cover must be replaced with a cover suitable for the installed bucket. The interlock that is part of the bucket will latch the door that replaces the blank cover.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

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