JohnRBaker
Mechanical
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations cowski on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Are we looking at a disaster in the making... 2
- Thread starter JohnRBaker
- Start date
- Status
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
LittleInch
Petroleum
No.
You need to be careful with Richard B Kuprewizc of Accufacts Inc. He's basically a single man band who is a hired gun for all sorts of parties, often those opposing pipeline developments and has been hired by the 1st Nation opposing said pipeline.
Now I have zero knowledge of the intimate design of this pipeline, but there are far more pipelines in the US which are many decades old and suffering various levels of corrosion which pose a much greater risk of "disaster".
Ultimately this pipeline, like any other, has a very low probability of a high consequence event. There are many things that can be done to reduce that probability which I can only hope that the designers and owners have incorporated, but it will never be zero until there is no product left in the pipeline.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
You need to be careful with Richard B Kuprewizc of Accufacts Inc. He's basically a single man band who is a hired gun for all sorts of parties, often those opposing pipeline developments and has been hired by the 1st Nation opposing said pipeline.
Now I have zero knowledge of the intimate design of this pipeline, but there are far more pipelines in the US which are many decades old and suffering various levels of corrosion which pose a much greater risk of "disaster".
Ultimately this pipeline, like any other, has a very low probability of a high consequence event. There are many things that can be done to reduce that probability which I can only hope that the designers and owners have incorporated, but it will never be zero until there is no product left in the pipeline.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
-
2
- #3
LI, I trust your opinion that the pipeline design could be made better, even though I know that you are paid by petroleum interests. In fact, it is my opinion as well as your own that pipelines can be engineered and constructed far better than they are and I'm sure that Energy Transfer knows it too, as we both know at least one pipeline engineer that works there. Now as for what Richard Kuprewizc says, I don't see anything that I can refute. In fact to the contrary, it appears that this leak did indeed happen. We can't disagree with anything that Richard said specifically, yet because of who pays his bills should we think he is lying. While it is prudent to question paid (and unpaid) opinions and fake facts these days, who pays the bills may not be a reason to immediately assume the sky is still well supported in your neighborhood. Applying the same logic to what we have just said, I would have to trash your opinion. Furthermore, going with the verifiable facts, and while it may not mean the end of the world as we know it, I would have to tend to agree with Richard, "It leaked". The fact that it leaked while just bearly into the life of the system doesn't bode all that well.
Technology is stealing American jobs. Stop H1-Bs for robots.
Technology is stealing American jobs. Stop H1-Bs for robots.
Pipelines are far safer than the alternatives: trucking and trains.
----------------------------------------
The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
----------------------------------------
The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
Super efficient and far less polluting too, but that's not to say that we can, and should, make them as safe as we can. That's all I advocate, other than respect for your landowners.
Technology is stealing American jobs. Stop H1-Bs for robots.
Technology is stealing American jobs. Stop H1-Bs for robots.
LittleInch
Petroleum
BI, Well said and my point was not that the gent is lying (he wasn't), more that he is not some uninterested independent expert who the author of the article just happened upon. When you look closely much of what was said in the article is all maybe, might, could.... basically saying something without actually being specific. I've had previous with accufacts and he who pays the piper calls the tune - I've never been able to pin down actual errors and discrepancies, but it's the way the facts are represented and turned into opinions without necessarily a balanced view.
Example - the pipeline in question is 30" of over 1000miles. The statement "any spill from the pipeline could release thousands of gallons of crude oil and could pollute large areas affecting water course and grazing." Can't argue against that, but if it's not balanced by the probability and what features are included to prevent this, then it gives a lop sided view.
80 something gallons is less than half a cubic metre. I'm a little surprised they either measured it or had to report that sort of volume, but either way it's no indication of what the pipeline design, construction and operation will be like.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
Example - the pipeline in question is 30" of over 1000miles. The statement "any spill from the pipeline could release thousands of gallons of crude oil and could pollute large areas affecting water course and grazing." Can't argue against that, but if it's not balanced by the probability and what features are included to prevent this, then it gives a lop sided view.
80 something gallons is less than half a cubic metre. I'm a little surprised they either measured it or had to report that sort of volume, but either way it's no indication of what the pipeline design, construction and operation will be like.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
Short sound bytes is the norm these days. Not much time for giving balanced accounts of anything.
To be fair, now that I've done a little more surfing, the leak was entirely contained on site, so the ultimate defenses worked more or less exactly how they should have. They are also doing startup without much of, if any, emergency plan and no spill recovery equipment on hand, if things do happen to go the wrong way. Basically no "Plan B".
Technology is stealing American jobs. Stop H1-Bs for robots.
To be fair, now that I've done a little more surfing, the leak was entirely contained on site, so the ultimate defenses worked more or less exactly how they should have. They are also doing startup without much of, if any, emergency plan and no spill recovery equipment on hand, if things do happen to go the wrong way. Basically no "Plan B".
Technology is stealing American jobs. Stop H1-Bs for robots.
Reading between the lines, my guess is that it appears a plastic liner and berm wall may have been installed around a surge tank. A surge tank is used to reduce main pipeline pressure by containing oil ejected from the pipeline through pressure relief valve(s) in an effort to reduce the main pipeline's pressure. The leak was supposedly cause by a "surge pump", which is typically used to reinject oil captured in that manner back into the main pipeline from the surge tank. The surge pump is often very near the surge tank, so it could have even been within the tank's berm wall, or better yet, it may have had its own containment wall built around it. Oil may have overflowed from the surge tank, or perhaps from a leaky flange, open purge valve, etc. near the surge pump. This is certainly not appearing to be too serious at this point, but it is an indication that not everything was working correctly at the time. Fingers crossed, this will be the last of it.
Technology is stealing American jobs. Stop H1-Bs for robots.
Technology is stealing American jobs. Stop H1-Bs for robots.
- Moderator
- #11
- Status
Similar threads
