The Tiger tank inertial starter was I think designed for cold weather starting. I believe it had batteries for electric start as well. Kind of impressive seeing a 700 hp started by hand.


Here is an airplane started with an inertial starter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zXkVQnVmuo

Hamburger helper,
A lot of the early Boeing Stearman trainers were also fitted with this same style of inertial starter.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

I had always thought that a Tiger tank would have had more than 700 HP.

Although of a vastly different era, an M60 with the Continental V12 produced 1200 HP.

You learn something every day.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

The early Tigers only had 650 HP. and the starter was adopted from an aircraft starter.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

Those Germans... They'll try to make anything fly!

I once saw a metal plaque on an old MG set in a circa 1900 powerhouse that stated it was not to be used in any Aircraft. That must not have been a German product.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

I used to use an ex Army forklift with an I8 SI engine. Starting consisted of identifying which cylinder was just after TDC, remove plug, tip petrol in, replace plug, switch the ignition on and flick the contact breaker.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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I spent a few years commanding an M60A1 tank. AVDS-1790 air-cooled V-12. Only 750 HP, a step down from 830 HP of my previous ride, the M48A2C.

Fifty-four tons at thirty MPH was a lot of fun, though.

old field guy

My bad I guess. Always thought it was 1000 HP.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

I always wondered why they went backward. The M48A2C I ran had a gasoline engine (Continental AV-1790) that put out 810 horsepower unless somebody jacked around with the governor linkage to let it pass that 2800-RPM max RPM.

Of course, the gasoline engine got only a third the fuel economy of the diesel - i.i MPG for the diesel, 0.5 MPG for the gasoline version. Many of us in colder climes lamented the loss ot the gasoline as it was superior fuel for tent heaters.

Another step backward from the M48 to the M60 was doing away with 'Little Joe', an auxiliary gasoline-powered generator. Little Joe meant you didn't have to keep the main engine idling while you were sitting in one place, something we found ourselves doing quite often. If you messed around and depleted your batteries to the point that the main engine wouldn't start, quite often yuo could electrically start Little Joe, and if you couldn't start it electrically, it had a pull-rope starter just like a lawn mower.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but every now and then I like to re-live my misspent youth.

old field guy

Random sidenote... I've been spending some free time enjoying the game World of Tanks. They've done a great job putting in seemingly every tank/mobile artillary known to mankind for the seven major powers in ground warfare... even the ones that never made it off of the drawing board. It's cool just to look at the specs of each tank and rotate the 3D rendering.

But yeah, getting a multi-ton piece of metal up a steep hill with 100hp is... interesting (especially when someone is lobbing brass shells at you)

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

Given that I couldn't get a 1950's era Rover to start via hand crank then getting a big ol Maybech going that way seems pretty impressive (though may be a sign of just a better mechanism & some practice).

msquared, actually it was the Americans and Brits that tried to make anything fly.

Many WWII US tanks used Aircraft derived engines in at least some of their variants, the Brits used them in most of their Cruisers - initially a liberty V12 then later a Merlin derivative. Due to differences in Octane of fuel used (i.e. lower compression), omission of super/turbo charging etc. the tank versions were often significantly lower out put than the most sooped up aircraft engines.

Off the top of my head I'm not sure any WWII tank had more than 750 ish hp. Some of the early war tanks had less than most cars have today - not even in triple digits.

They also used AC aircraft engines for powering most of their motor torpedo/Gun boats (PT boats).

That inertial starter on the Tiger was used in many applications. I flew a restored Stearman PT-17 that had an inertial starter. It takes a lot of turns of that crank to get it up to speed, then the prop turns over a few times and you find out that the pilot didn't have the mags on...

old field guy

Old field guy.
Switches off, position , Contact , What do you mean that wasn't it?
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

berkshire-

Absolutely! I meant that the gentlemen had not put the mag switch in the proper position for operation. Two minutes of grinding on that handle, the prop turns over, and you hear an expletive fromt he cockpuit, the "Sorry... One more try."

old field guy

I always liked the "shotgun shell" starter method. In both the old and new versions of the movie Flight of the Phoenix, they were used towards the end of the movie. The crew goes through shell after shell trying to get their makeshift plane to start so they can fly out of the desert. In both, the last shell gets the engine going. I liked that scene in both movies and I thought both movies were pretty underrated.

Mmm. That moment where you jump out your skin as somebody presses the button on a cartridge-started jet just after you've passed them. Swear they used to do it on purpose to discourage us from walking back from lunch across the apron!

A.

zeusfaber,
Growing up in the UK one of the local farmers had Field Marshal tractor . This was started with a 12bore blank cartridge.
They generally left the thing running , but if they had to start it in the town you would always get a circle of small kids myself included who just had to watch. There is a better film on the back of the video I posted.

B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEurohAwrmA

Those big engines are fun to watch, but the first 20 seconds of this is what used to make me jump.

A.

Hmm, and there was me thinking they used AVPIN.

As an apprentice the company I worked for did a lot of work for Glo'ster aircraft co.At the time they were building the Javelin ,I would often be at the field at Hucclecote when they fired those engines up , they also had cartridge starts , but I do not think they were as loud as the Hunter, however you still got the cloud of black smoke stinking of cordite which drifted all over the airport.
This is getting a long way from tanks.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

Not really, M1 Abrams uses a gas turbine engine....

et voila back at tanks, you're welcome berkshire

I had no idea engines of any sort were started with shotgun cartridges.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffman_engine_start...

KENAT,
Think you're right about AVPIN on the Hunter. Still makes a lot of sudden noise. I'd forgotten all about that ghastly stuff (and will now try to do so again)!

A.

Zeusfaber,
There are stories that circulate in aviation circles, of people who used AVPIN as a cleaner with undesired results.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

The wiki page for Isopropyl nitrate has some interesting tidbits...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

Zeus, I did a bit of Googling when I posted about Avpin (much delayed by thinking the word was Avpro for some reason).

Anyway got the impression that some Avons (early?) were cartridge started, but I'm sure as can be Lightening was Avpin.

The Hunters that used to make me jump were T7s - so almost certainly AVPIN started (though in those days, I still thought of myself as a purely electrical/electronic engineer and hadn't learnt to pay enough attention to the mechanical systems - even when I flew in one).

The Lightning never seemed to get out very much - and when it did, there was always somebody out to upstage it. I remember the BBC filming the opening titles to a TV series by pointing a camera backwards down the spine of Lightning as it did a few zoom climbs off the main runway. An hour or so after they'd finished (run out of fuel/hydraulic oil), somebody got a Harrier out and spent twenty minutes or so flying the same profile - just at about a tenth of the speed.

A.