Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
(OP)
When doing the structural design for a remodel how does everyone go about determining the floor framing direction and size where concealed by finishes?
For size we typically try and measure at the stairs where you may be able to see a side profile or try and measure total height at stair opening and subtract out the ceiling heights.
For direction I've seen a combination of looking for patterns in nail pops, using magnets to locate nails and seeing patterns, or selective demolition to open up areas. I've also thought about using a thermal camera.
Anyone have better tricks they employ?
We typically field confirm everything after demolition but better picture we get from the start the less chance for field revisions.
For size we typically try and measure at the stairs where you may be able to see a side profile or try and measure total height at stair opening and subtract out the ceiling heights.
For direction I've seen a combination of looking for patterns in nail pops, using magnets to locate nails and seeing patterns, or selective demolition to open up areas. I've also thought about using a thermal camera.
Anyone have better tricks they employ?
We typically field confirm everything after demolition but better picture we get from the start the less chance for field revisions.
RE: Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
RE: Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
RE: Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
1) other engineers in the area make do without it.
2) often construction is 6+ months away and the homes are being lived in.
3) often times a contractor is not yet involved with the project.
4) pricing is not finalized and occasionally the proposed work does not actually get built.
In a perfect world we would always have the areas opened up. However it's usually a pretty big uphill battle. For larger scale residential projects we require it. It's the small ones I'm talking about. Usually only an issue in 2 story construction and we have access to attic and crawlspace.
Does everyone just require everything be opened up or what do you do in these situations?
RE: Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
Usually, layout of the second story floor joists will match the first story layout.
Interior stairs are likely parallel to floor joist direction.
In one historic home I investigated the floor joists were so long and "springy" that it was fairly easy to see, by inspection, which way the deflection curve ran.
This may be obvious, but I'll mention it anyway, make a sketch of the house floor plan, including any crawlspace supports. The floor joists probably run in the shortest direction. Lumber can only be so long.
The above are not sure fire answers, but pretty good clues.
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RE: Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
RE: Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: Determining floor framing direction where concealed by finishes
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.