×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

(OP)
After all, it is a dc vehicle, no?

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

DC energy storage. But AC motors, afaik.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Why not the Watson?

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Definitely AC motor and VFD, so definitely Tesla rather than Edison. Besides, if your thought is the batteries, Volta would be a better choice, no?

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Sure it's computerized. But "THINK" Watson?
Are you thinking Westinghouse, perhaps?

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Calling it the "George" would seem to be a better choice if that's the path to take.

Calling it a Westinghouse would bring up images of washing machines and refrigerators to us old geezers...

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers


Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
There is a homework forum hosted by engineering.com: http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Westinghouse brings up images of the electric chair.

Edison's assistant was named what?

Or why not the Morgan, after the person that financed both Edison and Tesla at one time or another.

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Actually, contrary to popular belief, Tesla did not "invent" the AC induction motor per se, he just made one that was practical and patented it first. The first "inventor" of a working model was Galileo Ferraris, who published his papers just a few months before Tesla got his patent.

But if Elon Musk called his cars "Ferraris", he would have been in trouble from the outset...


"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

OK, Ferraris published a paper some time before Tesla got a patent. That two guys think along the same path is not uncommon when the time is right. Tesla had probably been doing work for some time before applying for the patent. He started thinking about it already in school.

It was known and it was taught in schools that two sines with 90 degree phase difference create a circle in a Cartesian system and that the circle "runs in different directions depending on the phase shift being +90 or -90 degrees.

I would say that both guys invented the induction motor. Independently.

I'm not so sure if induction motors are used in the Tesla (I haven't got the one I ordered yet - even if I was very particular about the delivery date!). I ordered it under the assumption (sorry, Jeff) that it uses PM motors. If it doesn't, I will send it back.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

http://my.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/moto...

Definitely an AC motor, and the link above from Tesla i.e. the horse's mouth, calls the one in the roadster an "induction motor".

Does the model S have a permanent magnet AC motor rather than a true induction motor? I don't know, but if it does, it will likely also have a forced fluid cooling system on it because the PM motors are affected a lot by heat.

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

OK, I wonder if they will take it back on the grounds that I didn't read the specs?

Copper rotor keeps slip at a minimum. That is good. It also does away with the potentially dangerous situation with "forced" field weakening at higher speeds. Tesla seems to be doing the right things. And batteries are quickly getting better and cheaper. Graphene seems to be useful here, too.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

I get go to the Tesla factory about once per quarter for one thing or another, it's a hoot. I wish I could afford one, they are one well put together vehicle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_lfxPI5ObM

And yes, they are AC induction motors and no, they are not iPM or sPM AC motors, they are basic induction motors, albeit custom made for this application.


"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Personally, I like AC/DC.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

msquared48: "Me and me mates loik AC/DC...Hot and sweaty, loud and greasy!"

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Permanent magnet AC three phase motor.... beautiful combination with VFD in terms of efficiency.... quite a step forward from the standard AC induction motor...

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

A bit surprised to read the Tesla AC motors are in fact AC induction motors (on the link above).. The Toyota HSD system uses PM AC three phase motors..

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

There is one circumstance that may have influenced the choice, it is about field weakening.

The "overdrive" (5th and 6th gear) that makes cruising at high speed economical is easier and safer - almost automatic (increase f and keep U so that V/Hz is reduced) when you use an induction motor.

If you have a PM motor, you need to reduce the flux by forcing it down with the stator flux. That is not only wasteful, it is also dangerous because the slightest irregularity in the control will let the PM flux grow back to base speed flux. Imagine then, what happens to motor voltage when motor is running at twice or three times base speed.

Yes, it gets very high and kills (explodes) the inverter.

Therefore, the induction motor is a better choice. And if you use a Cu cage, the slip can be kept at very low values, so that efficiency is maintained.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Quote:

Edison's assistant was named what?
I give up.
(I do know assistant's name for Alexander Graham Bell and for fictional detective Sherlock Holmes, but not for Edison).

=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Edison had several "assistants." Hammer, Robbins Upton, Jehl (light bulb), and Dally (fluoroscope)

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers


Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
There is a homework forum hosted by engineering.com: http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Didn't Edison have Tesla as a consultant too? (Whom he screwed ROYALLY.)

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

As an employee, yes. Edison hired Tesla when he first arrived in the US, and told him to improve the efficiency of his DC dynamo by a certain percentage (can't remember the details). Edison allegedly offered Tesla $50,000 if he could do it, apparently thinking it was impossible. But just a few months later, Tesla presented him with the improvements and test data, then asked for the money. Edison allegedly told him it was an offer made in jest, and said something to the effect of "you'll understand once you have become a full fledged American", at which Tesla promptly quit in contempt, an opinion they both held for each other thereafter. I think I read somewhere that right up to the end of his life, Tesla believed Edison still owed him that money.


"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington

RE: Shouldn't the Tesla car be named Edison?

Otherwise known as the Edison screw !

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Resources

eBook - Functional Prototyping Using Metal 3D Printing
Functional prototypes are a key step in product development – they give engineers a chance to test new ideas and designs while also revealing how the product will stand up to real-world use. And when it comes to functional prototypes, 3D printing is rewriting the rules of what’s possible. Download Now

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close