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Redundant had and that

Redundant had and that

Redundant had and that

I am curious what the grammatical term is for "had" or "that" when used twice consecutivley in a sentence.

...had had... or ...that that...

When used, it actually makes some kind of sense, in context, but to me usually seems unnecessary when one "had" or one "that" would work so that it only results in interrupting my train of thougth while reading.

Probably would never occur in technical writing.

Again to be redundant -- just curious.

Design for RELIABILITY, manufacturability, and maintainability

RE: Redundant had and that

Billy and Joey sat an English exam, where one of the questions asked for a example of the past participles of "had" and "that". Billy had had "had" and "that", but Joey had had "had had" and "that that".


RE: Redundant had and that

While it may feel strange or as if a single 'had' or 'that' should have been able to do the job, in reality it can be perfectly correct. When used properly, the 'double' terms are used to mean different things. Take 'that' as an example, in addition to being used either as a Demonstrative Pronoun or an Adjective, 'that' can also be a Subordinate Conjunction. And it's perfectly valid for one 'that' to a Subordinating 'that' while the second 'that' could be either a Demonstrative Pronoun or an Adjective. I think you'll see that the cases for a double 'that' or a double 'had' are just such a situation.

Besides, if it was good enough for Abraham Lincoln in his most famous utterance, I guess you shouldn't feel too bad when you find your self using a double 'that' because it sounds like it belongs.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

RE: Redundant had and that

Cornflakes. Cornflakes. Cornflakes, Cornflakes. Cornflakes, Cornflakes, Cornflakes, Cornflakes, Cornflakes.

Do I win a Ford Tippex?

- Steve

RE: Redundant had and that

Nope. I'm just quoting from 80's TV.

- Steve

RE: Redundant had and that

"had had" and "that that" can be correctly used. and yes there are many technically correct terms that cause trouble for ESL users (start with a double negative, or answering a question "do you want A or B ?" with "yes")

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: Redundant had and that

btw, duplicated .NE. redundant ...

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: Redundant had and that


To understand “had had,” we need to take a look at the present perfect and past perfect tenses.
...and it seems that "is is" is a thing too.

More at: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar...

Funny sounding for sure. Not related, but I was in an automotive parts store when younger, and overheard a conversation at the counter. This elderly man was holding an alternator in his hand, obviously trying to troubleshoot a problem with his car. The tech behind the counter had offered some advice, and the elderly man replied, "I've done been had that!" Grammatically wrong, but instantly understandable. His frustration had probably gotten him tongue-tied, and I find it fun (after all these years) to work it into conversations when I can.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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RE: Redundant had and that

I had had a good day till I read that this that was different to that that; but but should still not begin a sentence.
And and.

Bye bye.

NX 8.5 with TC 8.3

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