Or, as I was discussing with my supervisor the other day, when reviewing resumes and cover letters is not the time to discern that the applicant is not working in their native language; that should have to wait for the interview. When you're looking to make a good first impression it should be good; if you know English is a weak spot get some help for those important documents.

I wouldn't even bother reading it let alone replying.

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

There are many resume's that only deserve to be thrown in the bin and never thought of again. I got one last year that had pretty good English until one of the last sections where he lapsed into text-speak. I came really close to sending him a rejection letter written all in text-speak, but I didn't figure he'd understand the sarcasm so I just binned it.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

I set my phone to accept no text messages.  Anyone who sends me an e-mail message with text-speak in it gets it back with a string of random-letter 3- and 4- character words and real acronyms for my reply such as:

luhs ftd aspca nom dlx cpa

Anybody who hands me a written report with text-speak in it gets either terminated if already presented to a client or final-warninged if not yet sent.  

Did I just make up a new term, "final-warninged?"

Side note on sending urgent text messages rather than phoning to talk:

My daughter Christina had offered to baby-sit a pregnant neighbor's 2-year-old whenever she went into labor and headed for the hospital. The big night came, and miss about-to-deliver SENT A TEXT MESSAGE at 2:00 AM to Christina to say she's on the way to the hospital, please hurry over.  Little son is alone in the house and sleeping.

Asleep herself, Christina didn't hear the small "beep" of a text arrival.  She would've heard the phone ring, though.  She kept it right by her bed.  Expectant father TEXT-MESSAGED five times during the night, asking if little son is doing OK.  Each message got a little nastier since Christina wasn't answering back.

Upon awakening in the AM, she saw the text notices on her phone and ran to the new mom's house to care for the little son.

When she heard the story, new mom exploded all over Christina for "letting her down."

I had to go visit new mom and instruct her in the art of dialing for a voice call.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies?  Do so now: Forum Policies
 

I get frustrated when my children start in with a string of questions by text message. One question is ok, but when it leads to 4 or 5, calling is easier and quicker. I have also told them that if they want a reply immediately, phone, don't text. I am partially deaf and don't always hear the one buzz of the phone when a text message arrives.

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

I very much prefer text messages to voice mail. Luckily for me, I don't know anyone who uses text-speak. If they tried that with me they'd be final-warninged! (Thanks for the word, Dave!)

A good text message is concise, precise, is quickly read, and omits superfluous information. A typical voice mail message drags on for a minute or more informing me of the price of tea in China, snowpack in Wyoming, and, oh yeah, the reason somebody called, followed by a recitation of the callers phone number in 1.538 seconds.

Obviously time sensitive information (like emergency babysitting) needs to be handled live, person to person. I find the lack of dependance on time, i.e. both parties being available at the same time to speak directly, is something that makes life much easier.

Terry
KI6FCI

I agree on those points of text-messaging, HowDidYouBreakThat. It does have its plus side.

To me, another bad aspect of text-messaging is that it implies availability on weekends and nights to the people with whom I work. "I'll just text him, he can look at his leisure instead of interrupting his dinner with a call."

The point is, when I quit work for the day or go on vacation, I'm not available for work.

It's nice being in non-connected land. No text available on our phones, actual buttons instead of touch-screen, and no mobile internet. My closest cohort is of the same mind. He still has rotary-dial AT&T phones at home. Yes, he still pays the rent to the phone company too.

OK, I've drifted away from the topic. No more, except to add that y'all should all get a Samsung Rugby 2 phone. Mine has been dropped in a glass of Diet Coke, a toilet, and on concrete. No problem. It even survived the disinfectant after the toilet incident. It meets military spec for survivability.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

Quote (DRWeig)

The point is, when I quit work for the day or go on vacation, I'm not available for work.

I agree 100%. When we got our latest GM he asked our HR for my cell phone number who emailed me. My response was "That's why I don't have one." I fail to understand why they will respect a land line (it's VOIP so not exactly stone age) but think it's OK to call/text a cell number 24/7. When I go on vacation I go someplace with no electricity, phones or cell reception. When asked how to reach me I give them an outfitters number on mainland and tell them I stop in once a week for gas & groceries.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

I got some new business cards made up a while back. It was only last week that I noticed my personal mobile/cell phone number is on them. I put that number on my personal info page on the company intranet as an "emergency only, personal mobile number". If I get a call in the small hours from Korea, I'll not be impressed.

- Steve

I called up a sales rep (based in Chicago) once who sounded extremely groggy when I got him on his cell. Turned out he was in Korea. He was not nearly as amused as I was.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

Yuck.

I've been in Korea when I got US calls. $4.00 per minute!

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

Two days into my trip to in Brisbane in December, I got a text from AT&T that my current data charges were $2000 and if I didn't contact them they would turn off my phone. I called them and they said "we have a plan we can put you on while you're out of the country that costs $60 for some (very large) number of MB and since they bill hasn't been printed we can make it retroactive". On that plan for $60 for a month I also got 800 text messages and 600 photo text messages included (they were $1.25 and $3.95 respectively). Most of those outrageous charges are holdovers from the days of telegraph.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

Thanks for that, David!

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

We've departed from the original topic, but it's a good discussion. This morning I ordered a new cell phone from Verizon, a Motorola RAZR HD. Since California charges sales tax on the full value of an item, not the sale price, the sales tax on my $99.95 phone was $51.00. ($599.00 list price) I knew this was coming, but it didn't show up until the very last confirmation page, on the very last line. They get customers excited about upgrading to the latest & greatest, then tack on the 'oh, by the way' CA sales tax at the last possible moment. I can't fault Verizon for the way sales tax is calculated in CA, but I do fault them for how it is presented.

Terry
KI6FCI

You have to wonder how many people get to that $51 line and say "no thank you". So instead of the $5 that any other state would get California gets zero. And they can't figure out why the state is broke. Cell phones are the worst for this kind of deep discount to get you to sign a contract (which then adds the discount back in over 24 months at 8%/month--you do the math). Horrible thing about the CA tax is that they start out charging you for the undiscounted price and then they tax every line of your bill so you pay at least 200% of the official sales tax number (probably closer to 300%).

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

Belgium's sales tax is 21%, and they're talking about raising it. I wouldn't complain too loud if I were you.

NX 7.5.5.4 with Teamcenter 8 on win7 64
Intel Xeon @3.2GHz
8GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 2000

Actually it's called a VAT (Value Added Tax), and while it has the appearance of being a 'Sales Tax', it's significantly different, often in subtle ways:

http://www.economywatch.com/business-and-economy/d...

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

I knew that was what you were talking about (called BTW in Belgium) but decided to copy the actual American person in stead of using what I learned in high school.

NX 7.5.5.4 with Teamcenter 8 on win7 64
Intel Xeon @3.2GHz
8GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 2000

DRWeig

Quote:

Anybody who hands me a written report with text-speak in it gets either terminated if already presented to a client or final-warninged if not yet sent.

Are you serious? People really submit reports with text speak in them?

Bill

"Are you serious? People really submit reports with text speak in them? "

Sure, why not? People write reports with abbreviations and acronyms that in them, that are only understood by a select few. What's the difference?

In our industry it's called 'jargon', and while we try to avoid it as much as possible (it raises heck when you have to provide translated versions, in 10 different languages, of your user documentation/help files as well as the software's menus and dialogs) it's sometimes an impossible task.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

I do use Three Letter Acronyms (TLA) in my reports but I always make sure that I spell it out in the first usage. Texting goes way beyond technical jargon.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

Sorry, but jargon and TLAs are not text speak.
Are we talking about the same moronic use of single letters and things like 'l8r' for later?
Tenpenny - do you use text speak in reports?

Bill

WGJ,

Yes, I've had two writers in the past few years put these in reports destined for a client:

ATEOTD
B4
2B
IMHO

I think there were more in those reports, but I don't know -- they were flung back to the authors before I read another page.

The whole report wasn't in text-speak. It seems that when they're typing fast, text-happy people can lapse into that silly mode.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

Well, good for you, Dave. Crap like that doesn't do any good for client relationships, should it become public, and shouldn't be tolerated if it is a company/corporate document that gets recorded.

Bill

I have to admit I find my self doing it.
I don't think I have ever sent anything company related. I edit my reports first.
I am bad for using U for you or UR for you are..

Our library is scanning reports and meeting minutes from way back (early 60's). They are all in modern day English. No txt spk anywhere.

- Steve

My girlfriend is an English teacher (9th through 12th grade). They regularly submit reports with texting abbreviations AND, get this, emoticons!

If her classes are representative of the aggregate, our children are in some trouble.

In Russia building design you!

OMG emoticons!

I don't even know that ATEOTD stands for.

The world is coming to an end.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

I had to google it. At The End Of The Day - another well-worn cliche. I have returned technical papers submitted for peer review that contained unexplained acronyms and cliches asking for the papers to be rewritten.

Thanks GrahamBennett, you stopped me from another long tirade.

Instead, I'll keep it concise. Bizness Buzzwords and Bizness Buzzword phrases are grounds for severe discipline IMHO.

I'm going back to work now so I can continue to look at the 50,000-foot view, focus on my core strengths, and build a framework from which I can ping other engineers and share best practices.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

Bingo!

Terry
KI6FCI

Keep your paradigms synergistic Dave.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

Good one, David.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

AlL cApS iS a StAtE oF mInD
in fact i consider caps unnecesary for the entire english language. why the F do we need caps when there is a "." symbol

most people with broken english speak better than I or possibly you would in theirs. engineering majors usually don't take additional languages and maybe they should.

Well at least that's my 2 lowercase letters. or cents if you like numerals so much
Take em or leave em. In Unix ass AsS aSS and ASS and the other two Upper/Lowercase combos can all exist in a directory in Windows they are not case sensitive so you'd have issues.

"It's not the size of the Forum that matters, It's the Quality of the Posts"

Michael Cole
Boston, MA
CSWP, CSWI, CSWTS
Follow me on !w¡#$%
@ TrajPar - @ mcSldWrx2008
= ProE = SolidWorks

Quote (mjcole)

in fact i consider caps unnecesary for the entire english language. why the F do we need caps when there is a "." symbol

Quite a hasty conclusion. For one, punctuation does not assist in scanning text for proper names and nouns. The proper name "Peter the Great" does not have the same meaning when the letters are not capitalized.

In Russia building design you!

How many people take typing in school these days? I took it back in the days of manual typewriters and typing in time to music.

If you cannot type, it takes a long time to get your ideas into a computer in a reasonable time. This is still a necessary skill.

--
JHG

Touch typing, vs hunt and peck. We've done this topic to death in this place.

A friend of mine, recently gone away, had a brain tumour, which made communication difficult. He was always a brilliant typist, but found that only one side was working right. So it limited his vocabulary (his joke).

- Steve

I can honestly say that the one class I took in high school where the skills I learned I know I will use every day of my life was typing, and back when I took it, 1965, we learned on manual typewriters and the class was virtually 100% girls (I think there was only one other guy besides me). I went to a small public high school (30 in my graduating class) in Northern Michigan and by the time I got to my senior year I had taken all the classes that the school offered and so during my last semester I took typing and a couple of correspondence course, basic electronics and drafting (pretty common in that part of the country and during that era to offer 'advanced' topics by correspondence course to seniors preparing for college).

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Well, now CalTrans (California Department of Transportation) is doing it. Tonight I saw an electronic sign "Freeway subject 2 closure". I hope everyone who reads that sign is fluent in English (not a chance in Southern California).

Terry
KI6FCI

They've closed Subject 2 on the Freeway?

I didn't realize that California regulated conversations as well as conservation. Wow, you even have to be careful what you talk about.

Oh dear TenPenny. Your post had me laughing so much my sides hurt.

Ditto. Coffee up nasal passages.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

Some subjects are too distracting to drivers. Subjects 1 and 3 are okay, but subject 2 gets people so riled they cause collisions.

Subject 2 is now open for discussion again. Tonight the same sign read 'Freeway maybe closed'(Didn't catch the times).

Maybe it's open, maybe it's not...

Terry
KI6FCI

Perhaps someone was just trying to save space as those signs have a limited number of displayed characters.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

What was Subject 1? ---- don't mention Subject 1

Bill

Subject 1 is classified.

It was a three line sign. If 'freeway' fit on the top line, 'may be' would have fit in the middle. Seems that they couldn't be bothered to read what they just typed.

Terry
KI6FCI

I mentioned subject 1 once, but I think I got away with it.

NX 7.5.5.4 with Teamcenter 8 on win7 64
Intel Xeon @3.2GHz
8GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 2000

Terry - keep an eye open for the boys in the black suits and dark glasses......they know where you post.

Bill