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close proximity?
4

close proximity?

close proximity?

(OP)
Was this term coined by the department of redundancy department?

I cringe every time I see, "Close proximity." I mean it's like saying, "Close closeness!"

End of rant!

f-d

(next week, we can discuss, "More perfect," which has a lot of traction from our U.S. history, eh?)

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

RE: close proximity?

How abut "more better"??

RE: close proximity?

Or "free gift"? If it isn't free is it still a gift?

RE: close proximity?

I swear you guys are channeling George Carlin...

"Those two words go together about as good as 'Military Intellegance'."

"A guys walks into a store and says he wants to buy a 'hotwater heater' and the sales clerks asks WHY?"

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

RE: close proximity?

(OP)
I might-could make an inventory of such stupid sayings. I have never heard the hotwater heater line though - ha!

f-d

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

RE: close proximity?

As George Carlin would say "take a s**t". Take it where? ponder

RE: close proximity?

The free gift is in close proximity to the ATM Machine.

=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?

RE: close proximity?

Hot water heater?

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: close proximity?

Traveling for Christmas this year, the airlines made an announcement addressed to "our guests." I looked at my girlfriend and asked "if we're their guests why did I give them 80,000 miles for our tickets?" She just made that face she makes a lot.

RE: close proximity?

One that I hear a lot is "round circle". I can only shake my head and walk away.

Benta.

RE: close proximity?

"Round circle," is that like doing a "full 360?"

RE: close proximity?

Good location. You'll probably need to enter your PIN number at the ATM machine in order to get enough cash to pay for that free gift.

RE: close proximity?

Yes, 25362, "in close proximity" is proper grammar and is commonly employed. That does not rule out its silliness, nor does it eliminate its pretentious air. Your thesaurus citation is exactly what I have shown to writers who attempt to sneak that sort of vile language into my company's reports. There is no excuse for writing "in close proximity" instead of "near," "close to," or another plain and simple term.

Its use evokes a writer or speaker who is trying to appear more scholarly than he or she actually is. When I hear it in a presentation, I assume that it is part of a strategy to cover up a flaw in the speaker's basic premise.

I put that phrase in the same category as the business buzzwords. If I here one more executive spiel like the one below, I will barf on the conference table.

"We must focus on building a framework that will allow us to get our arms around the 50,000-foot view of our core capabilities. This will necessitate the utilization of best practices and buy-in from the stakeholders. We have to go after the low-hanging fruit and re-structure functions to accommodate growth. A bias for action is key to our growth, so make it happen. By the way, we need to spend more on SEO, SEF, and executive bonuses. Take the money from the payroll spend and right-size the headcount to keep the EBITDA intact. RIF about 25."

He could have simply stated, "Let's try to do better so we can grow some more. Until we start growing more, let's make our web site better and lay off some of the drones so my bonus will be bigger."

I also deduct major points for speaking, writing, or typing the word "utilize." In general, I stop reading at the first instance of that horrible word, and I make sure the author knows about it.

Thanks all, I needed to get that out today.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: close proximity?

(OP)
I'm on board with Goober Dave! Couldn't have said it better. In the words of my father, "Don't use the word utilize, utilize the word use.

f-d

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

RE: close proximity?

Goober Dave, I might have a better translation:

"Quantity over quality, create metrics and force a short term productivity increase so we can pat ourselves on the back and up the management bonuses. Pretend we are not aware that this will reduce quality, and then to solve the quality problems we can fire people for making mistakes. It is just that simple!"

RE: close proximity?

Close proximity is about as meaningful as "life time guarantee".

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

RE: close proximity?

Nice 1gibson. Watch those metrics! The walls have ears.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: close proximity?

OK, I'll play along...

While I agree the use of "close proximity" can be rather pretentious, I don't see how it is redundant.

Isn't there some assumed difference between someone who is "in the proximity of" and "in close proximity to?"

For example: "My house is in the proximity of the fire. The firefighters are in close proximity to the fire." If I read this, I assume that the firefighters are closer to the fire than my house.

RE: close proximity?

(OP)
In my mind there is a difference between somebody who's, "in the closeness of," and somebody who's, "close to." So, yes there's that difference that can be made without succombing to, "in the close proximity of," or "in close proximity to."

f-d

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

RE: close proximity?

So why isn't "far proximity" or "distant proximity" routinely used?

RE: close proximity?

I still interpret a difference between "being in the proximity of" and "being in close proximity to."

To me "in the proximity of" is the same as "in the general vicinity of," but "in close proximity to" is the same as "near."

I'm sure I've got this wrong, so please edjumacate me.

RE: close proximity?

Some people will interpret "near" as "in the general vicinity of"

NX 7.5.5.4 with Teamcenter 8 on win7 64
Intel Xeon @3.2GHz
8GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 2000

RE: close proximity?

I personally like the concept of 'preplanning' and 'past history'.

I wonder what the alternative to preplanning is, postplanning?

RE: close proximity?

(OP)
not too proximal, sort of proximal, proximal, really proximal, super proximal.

not too close, sort of close, close, really close, super close.

In what way could you use the words "close" and "proximal" (proximity) to add to these intents?

I just don't see it. If you want to say, "It's just not too close," or "It's really close" I'd think there'd be a better way to acheive the goal.

f-d

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

RE: close proximity?

2
Here is a url address for a reference source on this subject matter. It was assembled together by an academic scholar who seems to be a knowledgeable expert. I found it to be both very unique and amusingly entertaining.

http://grammar.about.com/od/words/a/redundancies.h...

I previously made a duplicate copy of the As and have since put them in place down below. They will give to you a good and proper visual illustration that you can see with your eyes. I strongly urge all to read it to its final conclusion, pick and choose your top favorite, and reply back so that we all can jointly participate in your scholarly education.

I am regretfully sorry for the sloppy mess I made of this written composition. I did it in the past; it was 3:00 AM in the morning, and my mind was vascillating back and forth in between sharp clarity and blurry haziness.

•(absolutely) essential
•(absolutely) necessary
•(actual) facts
•advance (forward)
•(advance) planning
•(advance) preview
•(advance) reservations
•(advance) warning
•add (an additional)
•add (up)
•(added) bonus
•(affirmative) yes
•(aid and) abet
•(all-time) record
•alternative (choice)
•A.M. (in the morning)
•(and) etc.
•(anonymous) stranger
•(annual) anniversary
•(armed) gunman
•(artificial) prosthesis
•ascend (up)
•ask (the question)
•assemble (together)
•attach (together)
•ATM (machine)
•autobiography (of his or her own life)

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: close proximity?

Duplicate copy? Does that mean you copied it twice?

RE: close proximity?

Thanks Dave - I'm guilty of using at least 75% of those redundancies.

Good food for thought. I'm bookmarking the site and will use it frequently.

Here's one I can't figure out on the list: "(small) baby"


RE: close proximity?

Speaking of 3am in the morning, one thing that annoys me is people using 12:00pm.

12:00 can be neither before or after noon, it IS noon.
12:00 is either noon or midnight, not am or pm.

RE: close proximity?

Thanks TenPenny, that's one of the things that bugs the stew out of me. When 12:00 is not ambiguous, such as a business setting a meeting at 12:00 or a 12:00 lunch is proposed, I'm sure which 12:00 is being named.

Software packages and web sites, though, give me anxiety. Example: I don't like my registry scanner to run during the workday. When I set it to run at midnight, do I type in 12:00 PM or 12:00 AM? Those are the only choices! So I cop out and put 12:01 AM or 11:59 PM.

Why can't they have a place to enter midnight or noon when someone types 12:00? Why can't they accept military time? 1200 and 2400 would be OK.

Argh!

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: close proximity?

==> I'm guilty of using at least 75% of those redundancies.
Some are redundancies, but some are simply using a legitimate part of speech known as an "intensifier".

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: close proximity?

On the issue of AM or PM for 12:00, someone once told me that 12:00 AM is one minute before 12:01 AM, and 12:00 PM is one minute before 12:01 PM. That means midnight is 12:00 AM and noon is 12:00 PM.

Phil

RE: close proximity?

Close only counts in horseshoes...and hand grenades.

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: close proximity?

12:00am must be 12 hours before noon (a.m.), which would be midnight, whereas 12:00pm must be 12 hours after noon (p.m.), which would be midnight.

From the wikiworld:

a.m. Ante Meridiem
Latin = "before midday"
before noon
p.m. Post Meridiem
Post Meridian
Latin = "after midday"
after noon

* Terms 12 a.m. and 12 p.m. cause confusion and should not be used as neither the "12 am" nor the "12 pm" designation is technically correct.
It advisable to use 12 noon and 12 midnight where clarity is required.
To avoid ambiguity, airlines, railroads, and insurance companies use 12:01am for an event beginning the day, 11:59pm for ending it.



RE: close proximity?

(OP)
12 noon and 12 midnight are redundant though.

Wikiworld needs a better editor, I guess. . .

f-d

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

RE: close proximity?

Yes, either 'noon' and 'midnight', or '12:00(noon)' and '12:00(midnight)' would be better.

RE: close proximity?

I avoid 12:00 as a time if ever possible. Midnight/Midday are clearer. Will the 24-hour clock ever really take on? I recall the clocks striking 13 in "1984", but my watch ony has three numbers on it: 6, 9 and 12.

- Steve

RE: close proximity?

I've never really thought much about the exactness of my time format, but the 12:00 discussion got me thinking...
Which one is correct (space and caps)?

1. 3:00 PM
2. 3:00PM
3. 3:00pm
4. 3:00 pm

I've probably typed all of these at one time or another.

RE: close proximity?

(OP)
I'm going with "4."

f-d

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

RE: close proximity?

I vote 1 for formal writing, 4 for non-formal, and either 2 or 3 for computer data entry fields that do not like the space.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: close proximity?

I think it's most important that you're consistent. Don't use different forms in the same piece of text.

NX 7.5.5.4 with Teamcenter 8 on win7 64
Intel Xeon @3.2GHz
8GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 2000

RE: close proximity?

12:00 isn't necessarily on a 24hr clock, it could be on the 12hr clock (ie am/pm)

12:00am would normally be interpreted as mid-day, and 12:00pm mid-night, ie the am clock starts at 00:00 ... 00:01am is 1 minute past mid-night, just as 00:01pm is 1 minute past mid-day. if 11:59am is 1 minute before mid-day then 12:00am is mid-day (or 00:00pm).

to me "close proximity" sounds ok, being closer than "in the proximity of" ... "distant proximity" doesn't sound right ("far from" sounds clearer)

RE: close proximity?

"12 noon and 12 midnight are redundant though."
no, just incorrect.

"knowledgeable expert"

as opposed to an ignorant expert?

Jay Maechtlen
http://www.laserpubs.com/techcomm

RE: close proximity?

Quote:

Duplicate copy? Does that mean you copied it twice?

Quote:

"knowledgeable expert"

as opposed to an ignorant expert?
Give the guy a break. He did say after all: I am regretfully sorry for the sloppy mess I made of this written composition. I did it in the past; it was 3:00 AM in the morning, and my mind was vascillating back and forth in between sharp clarity and blurry haziness."

Great post, Dave!

=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?

RE: close proximity?

You mean there's supposed to be something besides blurry haziness? I thought that was a natural side effect of married with children.

RE: close proximity?

fattdad
Thanks for sensitizing me to this silliness!evil Close proximity never bothered me and now it will bug me until death just like "very unique" never bothered me until my friend pointed out that unique does not need any modifiers. I already did a thread on that one so I dare not harangue y'all with redundancy here.

benta (Electrical)
"One that I hear a lot is "round circle". I can only shake my head and walk away."

When I ask for a piece of mild steel 2-1/2 inch diameter by 3 ft long at our local Pacific Steel and Recycling, they invariably ask me, "do want that in round?" It is tempting to say something smart-alek but I hold my tongue. Maybe I should say, "2-1/2 inch dia round."

Design for RELIABILITY, manufacturability, and maintainability

RE: close proximity?

On my Outlook calendar 12:00 pm is noon and 12:00 am is midnight.

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