Checking Webster's, it seems to be saying that it's a matter of whether it's has a direct impact or not.  'Affect' implies that it may very well 'influence' something else happening, while 'Effect' implies that it will 'cause' something to happen.  And yes, it seems to be a very fine point, so fine that I'm not sure that it helps much in your two examples.

That being said, personally I think I would accept either word in the first case but that 'affect' just sounds odd or clumsy in the second one, so much so that I would have to stick with 'effect' simply because it rolls off the tongue better.  

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
UG/NX Museum:   http://www.plmworld.org/p/cm/ld/fid=209

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
 

The words do not mean the same thing. They sound the same and are often used incorrectly. Imagine the words were completely different in spelling, then really study the definitions until you clearly understand the difference. That's what I did in my youth, and it's made life simpler since. There was no internet then, but paper dictionaries are sometimes superior to what you find on the internet. There are verb and noun forms of both, which adds to the confusion.  

My comments were based on what I had gathered from my old tattered 'Webster's New College Dictionary' which I keep on my desk, right next to my copy of 'Roget's Thesaurus' and 'The Elements of Style'.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
UG/NX Museum:   http://www.plmworld.org/p/cm/ld/fid=209

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
 

In (British) English usage:

effecting means causing or enabling.
affecting means changing.

- Steve
 

Affect is almost always used as a verb, effect almost always as a noun.

When affect is used as a noun, it's a mental state or psychological term (nearly always).

When effect is used as a verb, it's "to accomplish...," or similar.

The police officer effected entry into the house with his battering ram when he observed the old gentleman lying on the floor.

When the police officer struck the door with his ram, the effect on the old man's nap was immediate.

The sound of the ram striking the door affected the old man's slumber; he snapped awake and sat up straight.

Sorry for the disjointed treatise. My lack of coffee this morning has affected my thought process. The effect is rather profound. I think I shall go upstairs right smartly for another cup.

Good on ya,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies?  Do so now: Forum Policies
 

Hi - thanks John & others :)

So, assuming by the responses... the sentences I wrote use the word right/ok? :) Seems to be a bit of grey area in the use of the word on topic sometimes...

Your two sample sentences are correct in there use of the two words, but the sentence structure in the second example is wrong. It took me a minute to figure out what you could possibly be saying with "Procedures must never come into effect, which may confuse employees doing their jobs." It should be "Procedures which may confuse employees doing their jobs, must never come into effect."

"the sentences I wrote use the word right/ok?"

No, you used them correctly.  

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
 

DRWeig is spot on in every regard.

If I can't remember which of the common usages is which, I recall that the analysis is called a FMECA, not a FMACA - amd is analysing consequences rather than actions.

A.

I agree with everything DRWeig said.

Compositepro,
Since this forum is by nature pedantic, check your last post.  The eighth word should be "their".

I would suggest a further improvement to WoodBarn's sentence:  "Procedures which may confuse employees in doing their jobs must never come into effect."  The comma is unnecessary and confusing.  

Hokie66, yes I noticed after I posted but didn't want to waste people's time with a correction. I have no idea why I made such a glaring error. For that reason I try to be humble.

==> Since this forum is by nature pedantic,
Procedures which that may confuse ...
That should be used whenever the following phrase is a restrictive phrase.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

Thanks, CC.  You are correct, of course.  The employees would probably be confused by all of this.

I love the English language as it can be molded, twisted, stretched to make any sentence to portrait an idea.

Then may I recommend this modest but very interesting book, 'The Mother Tongue: English and how it got that way', by Bill Bryson...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_Tongue

If you do buy the book you may find the chapter on obscenities interesting since it tries to actually explain why there are '7 words you can't say on TV' and why they're considered 'dirty'.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
UG/NX Museum:   http://www.plmworld.org/p/cm/ld/fid=209

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
 

http://xkcd.com/326/

Technically, the glass is always  full.

I always find insure/ensure to be one of the worst. But if you can't ensure something is correct, I guess insuring against any harm caused by the mistake is better than nothing.

Funny enough, I've noticed a few lawyers that have issues with this in written communication. It is probably all the same to them though.

"the Mother Tongue" is a good book.

f-d

¡papá gordo ain't no madre flaca!