Refresher Training Frequency

Question

Refresher Training Frequency

controlnovice (Electrical)

(OP)

16 Dec 10 09:27

We have a PLC (Process Automation) that never has any changes, nor has it failed.

Our concern is 'if you don't use it, you loose it', in that without use, people tend to forget how to use it.

A failure of this PLC would shutdown the unit.  It is the only one of its type in the plant.  (Yes, not ideal, and it is in the long range plan to replace).

Our technicians have been going to the same training every two years.  I'm questioning if the frequency of training is necessary.  The technicians insist it is because again, if you don't use it, you loose it.

I feel with the training manuals that no refresher training should be necessary.  One may forget the class, but should be able to find what is necessary in the manuals.

I think a 4 hour refresher course would be acceptable every 2 years. Or, if the concern is really that high, that self study would be sufficient.

Any ideas out there on frequency or need of refresher training?

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MikeHalloran (Mechanical) · Answer 1 · 2010-12-16 14:16:34

An MBA might say buy two more identical PLCs, get them programmed exactly like the one that's running, put them in storage, and fire the techs who are extorting you.

I'd be inclined to just send _one_ tech for re-training, so it doesn't remain such a completely enjoyable junket. Then have the one with the latest training, train someone else who hasn't had the training.

Send the remainder (just how many techs do you have trained to support the one unit?) to training for the putative next PLC that you intend to use as a replacement.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

Ashereng (Petroleum) · Answer 2 · 2010-12-16 15:02:11

If the company is still in business, they most likely can send one of their technicians to your site should the PLC go down. They charge hourly/daily/weekly rates plus living expenses. Perhaps look into this if available.

Also, if the PLC goes down, you may need spare parts - which the factory techs may have in their truck, saving time.

If your techs only go to coures, they will still not be as good as the factory techs. If the factory guys can save you a couple day's of down time, that will more than pay for their rates.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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MiketheEngineer (Structural) · Answer 3 · 2010-12-16 15:15:35

The obvious politically incorrect question is "Just how smart (or dumb) are your techs?? Sounds like a good reason to get out of town and on the corporate expsense account...

I could still program a Radio Shack TRS80 - if I had the manual.

controlnovice (Electrical) · Answer 4 · 2010-12-17 07:37:51

All of you nailed it.  I was trying to be politically correct in the OP.

When I first arrived at the company, they had just finished one of their training sessions.  I asked how the training was, and, because they didn't know me yet, only told me about the great restaurants and gentlemen clubs.

I'm so frustrated with the company right now.  This has been going on for 15 years, and now these techs are my problem because I want to do the right thing.

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eyec (Industrial) · Answer 5 · 2010-12-17 11:01:32

what is the cost of replacing the plc versus the training expenses?

sounds like a no brainer to me, but i may be mistaken for someone that stayed @ a Holiday Inn Express last night!

micalbrch (Mechanical) · Answer 6 · 2010-12-21 15:27:39

Grant them the "great restaurants" and the clubs. It's not every month, just every two years. How important is this PLC for you plant? How much does your company lose every hour in case this PLC fails? This PLC seems to be a bottleneck for your company. So, be careful. Do you want to be the one they will blame in case something will happen because you cancelled the refresher training for your technicians? Reduce the technician group but I would not cancel the trainings as long as you do not have a backup plan.

SteveMartin (Mechanical) · Answer 7 · 2010-12-22 15:15:06

I've never learned how to program a PLC, but none of the trainings I have gone through were anything akin to using the techniques in a real application. In this vein I'd say the 'use it or lose it' argument can hardly justify retraining.

If the techs are worried about losing their ability to service this device through skill atrophy they should be practicing that skill set throughout the year, not waiting on the biannual offsite training course. They also perhaps should be taking better notes. Training somebody to do something once is fine/smart money. Training them repeatedly to do the same thing is waste.

controlnovice (Electrical) · Answer 8 · 2011-05-13 15:38:32

Update:

Techs returned from training, turned in Expense report, and are now on a 'decision making leave'.

Seems the 3 day training they told everyone about, was only 1.5 days, and they spent the rest of the time doing who knows what...

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looslib (Mechanical) · Answer 9 · 2011-05-13 16:31:30

Who approved the 3 day training trip without checking the course contents. Usually techs don't have corporate credit cards, unless they go on a lot of trips.

Weigh the cost of a backup system against the training. Have a spare onsite ready to plugin if needed.

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

lacajun (Electrical) · Answer 10 · 2011-05-13 19:01:19

A production super once complained about a tech not remembering how to configure a PLC they were trained on several years prior.  No refresher courses were offered.  This production super was bloviating about how the tech should remember despite the seven year lapse in even seeing it.  There had been no occasion to use his training.

I put a very simple integral all engineers should know the value of over a period.  He didn't know it and made claims about not remembering integration.  I explained he didn't need to.  I graphed it.  He still didn't get it.  I explained the concept of integration.  He still didn't get it.  I then stated it was zero.  He still didn't get it because he didn't remember even the concept of integration.  I then asked why he was so upset over Joey not remembering how to configure that one type of PLC.

This tech left the company and them high and dry.  He was, by far, their best tech for many reasons.

Eventually memory lapses for all of us.

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