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Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism
7

Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

Yes, reasonable. And somewhat funny at times smile  

peace
Fe

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

I hope somebody sends Al Gore a copy of this.
I realise of course that he would ignore it.
But the thought is there.
B.E.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

whilst on the whole i think it was good, thx greg, burt needs an editor ...
chuck out the stuff about humans being a tiny part of the planet's bio-mass ... so what, we can have an impat greater than our proportional representation.
chuck out the various cCO2 levels "% in an average house", etc ... so what ... the CO2 level outside my house has a bigger impact on the planet, this is not about personal survival due to CO2 poisoning.

for me the two main messages are ...
1) climate in complex, and our computer simulations aren't
2) in this politics seems to have trumped science

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

The fact that he had an EV1 put me off a bit. However I did get through the slides. Electric cars will be great just as soon as we get power generation off fossil fuels. However by then we will have learned there is no anthropogenic global warming.

HAZOP at www.curryhydrocarbons.ca

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

Electric cars off fossil fuels?
Just put solar panels on you electric car roof. After all your car usually just sits most of the day.

I agree with Bert. However, it's still a good idea to reduce our foot print. But because we want to, not because we have to (death by taxes).

So if added CO2 makes plants grow more, then talking to plants probally also makes plants grow more.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

Quote:

So if added CO2 makes plants grow more, then talking to plants probally also makes plants grow more.
Which has been found to be true.  I don't know if it has been proven yet, but there is enough anecdotal evidence to at least warrant a hypothesis.

--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

sorry to put a spanner in your thoughts guys but you are dismissing one view of the argument based on one persons assembling of a raft of charts. Who knows how accurate he is. I am pretty sceptical about AGW but flicking through the pages he criticises the scientists approaches and then makes an arguement that could be dismissed on the same grounds. He says they use only small data sets etc then bases his theory on small data sets. To be honest this 'paper' means nothing really on its own merits. Good for the anti brigade but nothing for determining the actual facts, which are we don't know.  

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

Maybe that's the point, we don't know.

He uses the same data to disprove AGW, that these guys use to prove AGW.

He also added data the AGW people don't use.

And he makes the assertion that it may not matter anyway. Not the assertion it's real start taxing now.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

I thought that the essence of his theses is that Al Gore and his pet IPPCC have presented cherry-picked data in a manner intended to frighten people (the "hockey stick" graph repeated 6 times in the report was just blatant).  He then presented the same data without the cherry picking and there was nothing scary there.

I did love the slide with the global temperature sensors 10 ft away from air conditioner waste heat air flow.

David

 

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

2
I think we need to reverse global warming.  Half of America was  once covered by a mile-thick ice sheet.  Where did it go?  It disappeared shortly after those invaders crossed the Bering Strait.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

2
Rutan builds great planes.
His expertise on Global warming is no more informed than the 3 or 4 thousand posts that appeared in this form.
Engineers are not any more informed than movie stars but people listen more to Movie Stars. A lot of them sound more intelligent than engineers.
Routan is good at Powerpoint.
IF all 6,693,000,000 people on earth were ground up and put in a plywood box 1 mile high and one mile square - how high would they fill it? I get 375'.  IF you removed the water that would be less that 40'.  
The meaning?  IF aliens come to earth humans could easliy be stored in some side canyon of the Colorado or the bottom of numerous lakes, in a cave, an old mine etc, etc.  

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

what in the dragbat are you talking about

peace
Fe

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

No really, if all the people on earth were ground up and dessicated then who would measure the box?

FeX32,
You have to work your way through 92 PowerPoint slides to understand.  If you didn't do the work, you don't get the answer.

David

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

If you took all of the hman beings that nodded off while listening to Al Gore and laid them end-to-end...
they would be much more comfortable.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

"... then who would measure the box?"

the aliens, of course ;)

"Engineers are not any more informed than movie stars ... A lot of them sound more intelligent than engineers" ... only goes to show, doesn't it.  IMHO i think engineers are more informed than movie stars, that we can understand (and take the time to understand) alittle of what the experts are saying, that we generally understand alot more about the fallability of models (not the movie star type). i'll give you that i think we are generally more opinionated than most ... but that's 'cause we're right ;)
and i'll certainly give you that their communication skills are generally Way better than ours.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

rb they are not called "aliens", they are called "undocumented visitors".

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

Just couldn't get through the whole thing, I guess it's Monday morning.  I'm glad some higher profile people are beginning to come out and affirm what so many of us already know, that global warming is pure unadulterated tripe.

Alarmism always has been, and always will be, an engine by which those "in the know" seek to use it as a mechanism by which to empower themselves politically and financially ahead of the mean.  Just a big game of king of the hill, if you really stop and think about it.  

 

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

Movie stars...argh.  Rb beat me to it, a star for him.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

I'm with BJC.  Except the part about the aliens.  And the plybood box. I'm not even sure if you can get mile size sheets of plywood.

Routan is a great aerospace engineer.  I'm not sure who is a great climate scientist, but I probably don't want to ride on a plane designed by that guy.

I did enjoy his comment in his interview for The Big Think (I think that was the name), where he said he was OK with importing oil now because its only going to get more expensive and that we can sell our oil back later when the price goes up.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

If you ask a movie star (or similar persons of un-scientific training) what their impression of the accuracy of a computer model of the earth's atmosphere is, they would probably be much more positive regarding it than the typical engineer, who has had (hopefully) at least some exposure to fluids modelling, and/or the analysis of chaotic systems.

I would not trust the average movie star to pour water out of a boot, even one with the instructions printed on the heel.

But, that, like all of this ^^^ (and I could post the links to AGW threads #1 thru 100), is just one guy's opinion.  Of course, my opinion is much more valid than yours, for obvious reasons.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

The amusing item, a week or two ago, was Al Gore being bushwhacked by a couple of reporters, who asked him his opinion of global warming now that Washington DC had record snowfalls. His response " I am not giving an interview right now" when pressed further, again said, " I am not giving an interview"


B.E.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

Here's another very recent article on one aspect of 'climate change'.

http://www.physorg.com/news190558013.html

Here they claim that measurements cannot account for half of the heat in the climate.

But rather than question the measurement methods and assumptions, the conclude that the heat is going into another part of the eco/climate system that they don't know of.

It seems that in this case, the data interpretation is sufficient to support the 'global climate change' frenzy while at the same time the data doesn't support what they do know. In the end, they question where the heat is going rather than question if the measurements and assumptions are correct in the first place.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

As responsible technical and scientific professionals, what we can NOT do is allow the alarmists (or anti-alarmists) to discount data or make unreasonable leaps of logic.  It is always appropriate to take stock of the facts in a detached manner and let the facts speak for themselves first.

Also, follow the money.  There are plenty who would profit from AGW.  Examining motives is fair game, and always should be.  No fact or person is beyond scrutiny.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

The fact is half of the stuff written either for or agenst AWG should classified as Science-Fiction. The question is which half.

I woulden't care at all, except someone started wanting taxes to fix the problem. So now we need to look at the followers on each side, and why they want this.

Both sides have professors clameing they are right. But one side has eco-terrests, and protesters that throw things. Would you believe them?
These are the same prople who, if asked, don't know the facts. They are motivated by emotion.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

whilst they probably don't Know the facts, much less what the facts mean, i'm sure they believe they know, which is a much worse state of affairs ...

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

I have no problem with differing viewpoints until someone wants to increase taxes to fix something that may not even be a problem.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

i have no problem, either, with differing viewpoints, until the other guy says i'm Wrong and need to adopt his view (which is Right)

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

rb1957,

I have no problem with differing views, or with the other person not knowing what they are talking about but still insisting they are right, unless it's not my wife.

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

i'm safe here ... my wife would never read such "nerdy" stuff, and she doesn't get out of the kitchen much (i can say that 'cause she'll never read it !)

RE: Burt Rutan on AGW alarmism

When I talk about this kind of stuff my wife says "Wa Wa Wa, you sound like the teacher on the TV version of Penuts".

David

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