well, people talk about "running off copies" and "making a one-off prototype" so it seems that "number off" might be an acceptable usage (although I've never seen it).  

Perhaps it's along the lines of "number made off this die"
 

Good question, nlkw.  English may not be your first language, but you are very perceptive as to its peculiarities.

Your colleague is correct in saying that "number off" is common terminology.  I have seen it for years, thought it a bit strange, but never queried it.

I am guessing that "number off" may be a contraction of "number taken off the plan" or similar, as it is often seen in the context of takeoffs done by estimators or quantity surveyors.

Here too.  I've seen that time and time again, but never really questioned it.  "One off designs" or "One off prototype" is indeed commonplace.

I have often wondered about this too, but never heard a good explanation.

The only thing I can think of is that the expression "to number off" is used when a group of people (especially soldiers in a squad or platoon) call out their numbers in sequence, so that there is a quick head-count of how many are present. Maybe this practice has transfered from military use into engineering / manufacturing, implying that someone literally counts out loud how many items have been manufactured?

Just a guess ....

This is a guess.

But I'm thinking it stems from a British military radio protocol.

The "off" sound is more crisp and defined when spoken than "of", and is less likely to be mis-heard.

It was discussed at some length here:

thread1010-179067: "Off" as nomenclature

- Steve

Stands for "normally off", which states the position of the valve in the normal (deenergized) state. Equivalent to fail-close.

"normally off" may be one meaning, but it's not the meaning being discussed here.

The link Sompting gave most likely covers it.

It's very common in Great Britain, especially in Defens(c)e Circles.

Few in the US use/have heard it and fewer still really understand it.

As to why, I think a few guesses were in that thread.

"Normally off", describes a lot of people here, present company accepted.  

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto:  KISS
Motivation:  Don't ask

Mike,
This is the grammar thread.  Your first comma is not necessary.  Which "present company" do you mean?  Do you mean "excepted"?  Did you come here from the pub and need another beer?

"Normally off" doesn't quite do it for me. I prefer to be called "normally abnormal"  

I worked for a British company for many years.  They always used "off" when talking about the number of items.  It could be how many units were ordered or how many components went into an assembly.  It has always sounded odd to my ears but I never had to look it up in a dictionary to understand them.

Since they sold us off to the French who sold us off the Americans who sold us off again, I have not heard it used by anyone none British.

After about 60 years in numerous manufacturing environments from California to Illinois to Kentucky and West Virginia, I heard for the first time in the Inland North West of the US the usage of "one off" in a shop that builds saw mill equipment.

I knew what was meant because of the context but was severely puzzled about why would he say, "one off" when he meant "one of" which would also not be the normal way to say it.  How many times have any of you heard someone say, "one of"?  It might be the way we would think of it but not to say it out loud.

So my thinking went this way:  Does he mean because he cut it OFF with the horizontal band saw and it fell OFF onto the floor?

We keep beating on this dead horse but just won't go away.

Outside of this website, I've only heard the phrase "one-off" meaning a unique or custom item.

Hg

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There are now 16 off replies to this thread, do we need any more off?

I worked for a British company once and that was my first exposure to the "# off" system.  My prior and present experience with USA companies would have had it as "# each".

So if I would normally say "this pump needs 4 each 1/2" mounting bolts" the Brits would have stated it as "this pump needs 4 off 1/2" mounting bolts.  It took some getting used to.

Much has been said in this forum about us being separated by a common language.

I was an intermediary between the British company and their USA (and central and southern American) customers, so cross communication was always interesting.  Taking an English conversation I had participated in at the factory in England and relating it to a USA customer required changing quite a few words to make it understandable to the American.

When I communicated with my British masters, I had to learn to speak their lingo if I wanted to be completely understood as some things we said in our vernacular meant something entirely different to them.

I work for an American company now so I don't have to translate English to English to communicate.  Thank goodness.

rmw

I work in England as part of an American team that works for an English company.  Being Bilingual is important.

- Steve

Bilingual eh?  Hmmmm, that's a nice way to say it!  Another BPS for you.

I think Americans are typically snobbishly resistant to Bilingualism.

And the English aren't?

Hg

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Not at all, speaking louder and more slowly is our second language.

I'm sure that more Americans speak Spanish than English speak Welsh.

Case closed.

apsix I suspect more Americans speak Spanish than Welsh people speak Welsh.

More comparable would be more Americans speak Cherokee (or some other native language) than English speak Welsh.

Or perhaps more Americans speak Spanish than English speak French.

Even then, USA has a somewhat higher population than England so you'd probably want to use % of the population.

For quite some time it's been compulsory for most children in English Schools to learn another language, French probably most common.

I've yet to meet a Dutch person that speaks less than 3 languages, in fact I'd say most of them I've met spoke at least 4, often with only a faintly noticeable accent, so in comparison the English do poorly.  So there are countries that do much better than the typical state of the English.

However, how well do, lets say, the French do?  

Apparently part of the reason the Dutch do so well is most of their TV is in German or English, so most kids already have a basic knowlege before starting school.  An advantage of being a small country with limited influence?  Perhaps the English and Americans are victims of their own success?

So I'll appeal your case.  Just saying case closed doesn't automatically win an argument, just like comparisons with the German administration of the late 30's-early 40's don't.
 

KENAT
A purple one for you.  Exactly my point.  During my short stint in Belgium, I found that many Belgiums speak two or three languages.  Flemish, French, English, German.

Quote (KENAT):

An advantage of being a small country with limited influence?

If you read the fascinasing book, "The Island at the Center of the World" you will need to rethink that quote!  This little country has had a dramatic influence on the maskeup of the USA not only wr2 the Pilgrims but read the above book if you doubt.

Electricity is actually made up of extremely tiny particles called electrons, that you cannot see with the naked eye unless you have been drinking.
( Dave Barry )

mm

Appeal sustained, although I did think the argument was poms vs. septics.
I forgot to add the ':)' to my previous post.

Continuing the bilingual theme...

By far the hardest thing is when you know you're going to have to use the "other" word(s) to get what you want, almost like you are trying to sound (in my case) American.  I think it's easier to speak a completely foreign languange than your own, differently.

My SO in a well known American sandwich shop:

"I'd like a cheese sandwich with some cucumber and a bit of lettuce please."

Me:

"She wants a veggie delight, hold the mayo."

 

- Steve

metman, that line was referring to the Netherlands, not the UK.  I don't need to read another book to know that for much of recent history Britain punched well above its land mass.

apsix, sorry if I missed your humor, but I've heard similar spouted by others of my new countrymen so it was entirely believable.

I had to learn to speak American when I worked in retail for a while, my wife & I still have misunderstandings.
 

KENAT

I was also referring to the Netherlands not the UK.  The Pilgrims lastly lived in the Netherlands before setting sail for the New World and the book has very little to do with the UK.

Sorry, given that the Netherlands isn't an Island as such I thought you were talking about England/GB, didn't realize you meant the dutch influence in New York and elsewhere.

Is Okey Dokey.  This thread is all about being one OFF.

And... it has gotten off (topic that is).  But it has been fun.

SomptinGuy, your bilingual post made me smile.  Only understandable by those that have been there done that.

Now if to my gringo friends I would say "go straightway to the carpark, look in the boot and get the hoover" most of them wouldn't have a clue what that means, but all are good proper words used in both English languages.  And I am sure all Brits understood the request perfectly.  (The hoover would be for the wife naturally, I don't know how to use it.)

rmw

You want me to go to the parking lot, look in the trunk and get the vacuum cleaner?

Mind if I smoke a fag while I'm at it?

(not sure about the straightway, did you mean straight away?)

Right Kenat, and yes, straight away.  But you are not a gringo so you cheated.  You speak that 'other' language as your mother tongue.

rmw

One of the funniest conversations I've had was:

Me: "The trolley dolly wouldn't serve the under 21's any booze"

American friend: "They must have been really pissed!"

Me: "Uh, that's what they were planning."

- Steve

Why don't we settle this issue with a chili cook-off?

A British colleague of mine nearly fell off his bar stool when a local South Carolina peach asked him if he wanted to shag.

As in Baseball?  A weekly snigger at our training sessions.

dgallup:  I would have interpreted it exactly the same way.  What did she mean?

Hg

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